Why aren't document windows floating in Photoshop Elements 9.0.3?

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After updating Photoshop Elements to 9.0.3, why do my document windows open as tabbed instead of floating?
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Photoshop Elements FAQ, Official Rep

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Posted 8 years ago

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Wendy Williams

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Hi Chuck

Uninstalling and doing a reinstall will mean that the way Float all in Windows works reverts to how it used to work but only as long as you don't install the patch to fix the Wacom Tablet issue.

In PSE10 it is sorted out and Float all in Windows works perfectly :)

Wendy
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Nielen Schaefer

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COME ON ADOBE, SUPPORT US.

When two or more floating photographs are opened in Elements 9 Editor, the top pic very easily latches onto and sticks to the one beneath, leaving the two of them tabbed - whether one wants this to happen or not!
A single photograph can even latch onto and stick/tab to the top edge of the Editor screen, and then has to be dragged away! (Maybe some individuals want this all to happen - but I cannot for the life of me guess why! What on earth where the the programmers thinking)!

Although there is an option (Edit > Preferences > General > Allow floating documents in Editor) this does not cancel the tabbing process. The fact that this mechanism cannot be cancelled is HIGHLY, EXTREMELY, INTENSELY, INFURIATING! It seriously interferes with editing processes when several photographs are being handled simultaneously on-screen.

Please ADOBE, I am obviously not the only one who hates tabs; read the many, many, many, negative comments above!
Surely you must feel some obligation to your loyal clients who have supported you over the years? The friendly thing to do would be to correct this annoyance. PLEASE offer an update to Element 9 that will provide an OPTION TO CANCEL the tabbing mechanism.

All the best
Nielen Schaefer
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Wendy Williams

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Hi Nielen

Once a new version of Elements comes out then Adobe will not support previous versions. In PSE10 the behaviour has changed and the problem no longer exists.

However if you wish to fix it in PSE9 then the solution is quite simple ... all you do is:

Uninstalling then do a reinstall this will mean that the way Float all in Windows works reverts to how it used to work but only as long as you don't install the patch to fix the Wacom Tablet issue.

Wendy
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Nielen Schaefer

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Hi Wendy

Thanks for coming back to me. I appreciate you time.

Sorry to report, but the "quite simple solution" of removing and then re-installing Elements 9 (which I did from my, purchased, legitimate, Adobe Elements 9 CD) makes no difference at all.

The INFURIATING tabbing of a photograph to the top edge of the screen, or of two photographs sticking and becoming tabbed to one another persists! ! ! With no option to cancel it! ! !

I never downloaded the patch 9.0.3, so my version of Elements 9 is original and virginal. (Is it possible that the patch was downloaded from the Internet without my knowing of it? If that is the case, is it hiding in my computer somewhere? How the hek do I remove it?).

When I re-installed my Elements, all my personalized settings were maintained, which surprised me - I would have thought that a new installation would have loaded a brand-new original copy!? (I didn't re-install over my existing Elements 9 - I first removed/deleted it completely before re-installing anew).

Seems to me that this problem clearly lies within Elements 9 itself. From your earlier comments above you seem to imply that the new Elements 10 works in the same way as 9. If that is the case, then 10 is very definitely to be avoided. I certainly won't upgrade, not until Adobe removes, or provides a cancelling option against, this stupidity.

Keep well
Nielen
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James Chaffin

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Nielen,
If you don't remove the plist Elements will simply use those settings, again. If you do remove them, it will automatically create a new default file. You can simply move the plist to your Desktop and then delete it AFTER making sure you have everything setup as you want it and that it is working properly.

It might be best to not only remove the app but everything you can find that Adobe installs. Of course, you absolutely need to write down (create a file for) your registration info... ;-)

Or, do what Adobe would like, just pay for the new version. :headbash: I think it is clear that they are never going to correct this problem in version 9. BTW, welcome to the Beta Testers Club :rolleyes:
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Nielen Schaefer

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Hi Wendy

Pleased to hear from you. . . But at my level of IT ignorance you seem to be talking a foreign language.
Remove the plist. (What on earth is this and how to remove it)?
Remove everything that Adobe has installed. (Including Reader 9.5, and who knows what else)?
Create a file for your Registration Info. (Seems to me I could be heading into dangerous territory here)!

So my new questions:
Should I take my computer to my local computer shop and ask their geeks to do as you recommend (at a cost to me of course) - then ask them to re-install my Elements 9 anew?
If I do so, are you saying with CERTAINTY, that PHOTOGRAPHS ON THE EDITOR SCREEN WILL NO LONGER STICK/TAB TO THE TOP EDGE OF THE SCREEN, OR LATCH/TAB ON TO EACH OTHER, and that my Elements 9 it will then function, in this regard, as it did previously in versions 8, 7, and 6?!

If you are not absolutely certain, then please say so. I don't want to waste my money or time. (The fact that this tabbing problem existed from the very first moment that I originally downloaded and installed my Adobe CD, seem to indicate to me that tabbing is an inherent shortcoming of Elements 9)?

Sincerely
Nielen
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Wendy Williams

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Hi Nielen ...

For the moment forget about all those other things that you mentioned plist etc etc.

... are you sure that when you go into the Preferences>General you have allow floating documents in full Edit Mode checked ??

Now open an image and make sure that you do Window>Images>Cascade. Next Do Window>Images Float All in Windows.

Close down Elements, restart Elements and see if it is still tabbing them ?

Wendy
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Nielen Schaefer

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Hi Wendy
You reply to me very quickly - you must be on the same time zone as South Africa. (With American contacts, there is often a two-day delay, or longer).

When I mentioned the limits of my own IT knowledge, I should put that into context. I have been using computers since 1980, so I regard myself as computer literate - but of course there are degrees of literacy!

More significantly, I have been using various versions of Elements since 2005, so I know the program well, to the extent that I have been helping colleagues at my local Camera Club with their Elements issues and have provided tuition in many of its functions.

So yes, the basic set-up of; Edit > Preferences > General > Allow floating docs in Editor window, is ticked. (As is; Save panel locations).

Going to the Editor screen as you suggest, and using Window > Images > Cascade. And then, > Float all in Windows, this simply counters the effect of > Consolidate all to tabs. There is no effect on the automatic tabbing process - even if Elements is thereafter closed and re-opened.
(When I say one pic sticks/tabs to another, this only happens of course in a particular position as a blue line appears. Otherwise, if one is careful, pics can be moved one over another)!

You haven't yet convinced me that this tabbing issue can be permanently cancelled, or better still, permanently removed, from Elements 9! (Please tell me that it can)!

(By the way, I have examined, Editor > Help > Updates > Checking for updates, and find that the update 9.0.3 is offered, indicating that it is NOT currently installed on my computer).

Like you, I object to having to buy the new version Elements 10 - simply because of an Adobe foul-up with 9. I will rather go back to my Elements 6, which in many ways I preferred. It certainly has a better ergonomic layout on-screen.

Keep well
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Lorena Saxe

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Nielen Schaefer wrote: You haven't yet convinced me that this tabbing issue can be permanently cancelled, or better still, permanently removed, from Elements 9! (Please tell me that it can)!

Exactly! There seems to be seem confusion on this point. Yes, we can set the windows to float, but we cannot set the windows to always-float and-float-no-matter-what. If you move the floating window to the wrong place, it will snap back into the tabs - and that is the important point here. And there is no way to turn off that snapping back. I want that snap-back into tabs disabled, so the windows will float no matter what I do to them, no matter where I move them. It always snaps back into the tabs (and pulls the other windows into the tabs with it) at the most inopportune time, and I don't like that I have to be obsessively careful to avoid that snap-back into tabs. I want to obsessively focus on my workflow instead.

So, it restate this, since it is the source of some confusion: right now, yes, there is the option to Float Windows, but even selecting this option does NOT prevent them from reverting to tabbed windows. If you move the floating windows wrong, they become tabs. What we want, and don't have, is the option to NEVER have tabbed windows. The Float Windows option does not give us that (at least on PSE 9 - not sure about 10).

Thanks for listening!
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Wendy Williams

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Hi ...

The original issue was that the default behaviour of opening new documents was changed (by the installation of the wacom patch) so that they ALWAYS open as tabbed, even when floating windows are enabled.

If you follow the instruction then I can assure you that behaviour will cease.

However it does not stop you tabbing documents if you wish too ... but you do have to physically move one document on top of the other then position it so that they do tab.

This is exactly the same behaviour as it was in PSE8. Continuing through in PSE9 and they still do it PSE10. If you don't want that to happen then stick with Cascade and don't move one on top of the other ... really its as simple as that.

Neil ... PSE9, if you haven't installed the patch works exactly as it is supposed to do, and exactly the same way that PSE8 does. So I certainly had no problems with that ... indeed I upgraded to PSE10 when it came out and have had to dig out older version to try and help.

Wendy :)
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Nielen Schaefer

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Thanks Lorena Saxe for supporting me in my hatred of the automatic tagging function shown by Elements 9.

And Wendy Williams, you now tell us that this annoying process has NOT been corrected in Elements 10 ! ! ! From the many, many negative comments, it is clear that a majority hates not having an option to switch it off permanently, yet the Adobe programmers have apparently persisted in using it.

I cannot for the life of me think when this function might be useful. What on earth were the Adobe programmers thinking? If some folk actually do want auto-tabbing, then so be it, but for heavens sake give those of us who hate it the option to remove it.

Wendy, you say that the "simple" answer is to Cascade the photographs and not to move one on top of another. Please don't brush aside a serious problem so flippantly. You obviously do not do much advanced work on Elements. What about preparing and testing before adding Layers? Or collaging pics side by side?. Or collaging many pics within one frame? Or comparing pics side by side to check exposures? Or taking selected bits out from one pic and carefully positioning inside an adjacent one? Or examining the pixel dimension and enlargement of two pics? Or . . . .
The list goes on.

The bottom line is that the tagging function INTERFERES SIGNIFICANTLY AND INFURIATINGLY with the editing process.

ADOBE HEAR OUR CALL!

Nielen
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Lorena Saxe

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Wendy Williams said: "This is exactly the same behaviour as it was in PSE8. Continuing through in PSE9 and they still do it PSE10. If you don't want that to happen then stick with Cascade and don't move one on top of the other ... really its as simple as that."

I know, this is nuts, right? It should be this simple. But it is not. If you worked like I do, you'd fling your windows about willy-nilly looking for the one you want, focused on the details inside the windows, not the position of the windows. And when the windows tab, it makes you see red for an instant and say words your mother would wince at. This is one of those odd reasonable-people-turn-into-raging-maniacs issues - and I am one of the most raging. I hate this revert-to-tabbing things with a searing, unreasonable passion. Here is the option I want, I NEED:

Never Ever Ever Ever.... Ever Tab. Do Not Tab Even If You, PSE, Feel LIke you Will Burst Into Flames If You Don't. Just. Stop. Tabbing. Now. Stop It!

I wish I could keep my windows neatly cascaded. But I can't. If I could be that orderly, alas, I would probably like tabs. But there ya go.

Thanks for the info on PSE 10, Wendy! So sorry that this isn't changed, but maybe if we keep ranting, someone at Adobe will hear our wails...

- Lorena
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James Chaffin

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Mr. Scaeher writes:"And Wendy Williams, you now tell us that this annoying process has NOT been corrected in Elements 10 ! ! !"
No, that's not what Wendy said. I think you read her post a little too speedily. Here's a quote from her post:"This [floating windows] is exactly the same behaviour as it was in PSE8. Continuing through in PSE9 and they still do it PSE10." What she is saying is that windows floated correctly in version 8 and it is fixed to do that in version 10. Version 9 also worked that way until Adobe issued a patch for a Wacom tablet problem.

Unfortunately, that sentence was preceded by this one:"However it does not stop you tabbing documents if you wish too ... but you do have to physically move one document on top of the other then position it so that they do tab."
So, I think you interpreted her second sentence to mean the windows won't automatically float, whereas she was referring to the automatic tabbing behavior when two windows are positioned in a certain way. I also agree that I extremely dislike tabbing, especially when it happens the way it does in Elements. Unfortunately, someone at Adobe could care less, apparently. :wacko:

She also stated that if you "follow the instruction then I can assure you that behaviour will cease." The instructions she referred to are to delete Elements 9 and all its supplementary files, especially its plist, and then re-install it. And, most importantly, do NOT apply the Wacom tablet patch.
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Nielen Schaefer

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Lorene Saxe: just as well we live somewhere at opposite ends of the Earth. If we were ever to meet as a team in the real world, I visualize us storming together into Adobe offices, throwing furniture around, pushing programers up against the wall, insisting on redress, and if still ignored, causing a frightening amount of mayhem that would reduce their offices to ruins.
(What a lovely thought; it even leaves me feeling a little calmer and a little more relaxed. See, I keep on telling everyone that I am a non-violent person).

I have come to realize that the tabbing problem has two components:
The ONE is caused by the installation of an Elements 9 update 9.0.3, which apparently loads pics into the Editor screen in a pre-tabbed state. (I don't have this update on my computer, so this issue is irrelevant to me). Anyway, it sounds as if the solution is easy - just remove the update.

The SECOND tabbing issue is an inherent shortcoming of Elements 9, and cannot be removed! Here the pics auto-tab if they are inadvertently pulled over each other, or even over the top-edge of the screen - whether one wants this to happen or not. (&*%$#@!).
According to Wendy Williams, this annoyance was introduce in 8, was carried through to 9, and is now unchanged in 10(!).

I will now have to try and train myself to work neater, try to keep multi-pics on-screen well separated, and to stay well away from the top-edge of the screen - which, while I am concentrating on my "masterpieces", is not always my first priority.

But never-mind all the above details - the bottom line is that tabbing, in whatever form, is highly controversial. All we ask, is that AN OPTION TO CANCEL THE TABBING PERMANENTLY is include in Elements. Jees, is that too much too ask?

I'm going outside to break bottles - that always reduces my stress levels.
Nielen
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Lorena Saxe

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This cracked me up, especially the bottle breaking escapade. But yes, you have the two problems exactly right. Some of the posts were originally written in separate threads and were then combined into one thread by moderators, which seems to have added to the confusion over the two problems and who was discussing what. But you have this exactly right, so, hopefully, the Adobe reps who (really do) monitor this will be able to separate the two complaints.

- Lorena
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Wendy Williams

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OK lets put this into perspective ... it really isn't a world war issue !

There are several things that I don't like in Elements but others love them. So they use them and I don't ... its really as simple as that. Adobe introduced this (not sure if it was PSE7 or PSE8 ... being a Mac userI didn't have PSE7)

However if you feel so strongly that Adobe should be removing this tabbing feature (which a lot of folks actually do like ... see feedback on the various forums) then why not send in a feature request ...

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/...

See that as your storming of the Adobe offices

Wendy
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Nielen Schaefer

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Hi Wendy Williams
I'm grateful to you for putting the Elements automatic-tabbing into perspective. Yes, I agree with you - it is not quite a world-war issue. (But tabbing does nevertheless annoyingly interfere with the editing of photographs (!).

As I said above, I now realize that there are two components to Tabbing: first, the 9.0.3 update issue, and second, the tabbing that auto-defaults in the Elements editor-screen.
When I originally added my voice under the heading: "Why aren't document windows floating in Elements 9.0.3" I didn't understand the distinction: most replies were dealing with the first, while I was upset about the second. If my ignorance caused some of the confusion - sorry.

I will certainly follow up with the web-link you provide. Thanks
I will NOT ask that the default tabbing be removed from Elements (let those who like it, use it - although I cannot for the life of me imagine what benefit it provides on a dynamic, continually active, editing-screen). What I will ask for is that an OPTION BE PROVIDED to prevent auto-tabbing from forcing itself on those who do not want to use it.

sincerely
Nielen
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Jim Chaffin

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@Wendy, John Sankey & DuckBill
Can you please contact me at xairbusdriver AT comcast.net?
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Peggy Middleton

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Can I remove the 9.0.3 update or do I have to uninstall and re-install. I have been going crazy putting my images in floating windows only to have them keep going back to tabbed and then re-floating them. Arghhh!!
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Brett N, Official Rep

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There is no way to remove just the update. The update modifies files and there is no backup of those modified files stored on the computer. To remove the update, you have to uninstall and reinstall the entire application.
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Wendy Williams

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Hi Peggy ...

Its really easy to uninstall and then do a re-install. Just remember to deactivate PSE9 and then use the uninstaller to do the uninstall.

Do let us know how you go on with it :)

Wendy
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Peggy Middleton

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My computer is a Mac if this makes a difference. I uninstalled both PSE9 and the Organizer using AppCleaner. I still have a folder called Adobe which has Adobe Help.app, and 2 folders called AdobePatchFiles and Flash Player.

The PatchFiles is what was concerning me. Could that have anything to do with the 9.0.3 patch?

Should I trash these as well?
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Peggy Middleton

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I ran out of patience and deleted everything on my HD that referred to Adobe (Applications, libraries and everything else) then re-installed PSE9. :-( Now I can't get the images to float at all. Guess I will just have to learn to work with them tabbed.
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Jim Chaffin

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First, you need to check the "Allow floating documents..." item in the Preferences->General section. Then, you must still select the "Float documents..." choice in the "Window"->"Images" menu.

I highly DO NOT recommend using a third-party app to uninstall items on a Mac, they are simply not needed for simple app installs (Drag 'n Drop) and never know what exactly to delete in more complicated installs, like Adobe's. Thus, they usually leave stuff in many places that can make re-installing difficult and error prone.

Again, once you re-install Elements 9, DO NOT install the 9.0.3 patch that was to fix a problem with some Wacom tablets. If you don't have one of these tablets, you don't need the patch. Unfortunately, many of us didn't understand that and it broke the floating functions Preference settings effectiveness.

The tabbing behavior is part of the feature set introduced in Photoshop and Elements. It is not caused by the patch. And, unfortunately, there is no option to turn it OFF/ON. The only solution is to avoid dragging an image too near the top of the Edit window and/or the Title Bar of any other image. Even upgrading to Elements 10 does not change the tabbing behavior.
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Jim Chaffin

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I'm getting two different email "following" messages from this same thread (apparently, anyway.

One group includes all the ones between my reply just above and my last one 14 days ago.

Another group contains replies from Brett N., Dan Smith (3) and Wendy Williams. Yet the link takes me directly to this thread where I can see none of their posts.

Does this have anything to do with the difference between the five "Promoted Responses" (which I don't see marked anywhere) and the 110 (111 now?) other responses? I'd like to reply to Dan, but I don't even see any of his posts on this page...where the link in the email take me. :wacko:
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Wendy Williams

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Jim ...

Whilst on the Mac you can drag and drop most applications into the trash Elements is a little different.

First you need to deactivate it and then you need to use the Adobe uninstaller which is in the Elements software folder. Older versions of Elements were fine trashing them but the later ones need to be uninstalled ... yes I know its a pain but they changed things.

As far as your problem with finding the post goes ... click on the link at the bottom of the email "Go look at this reply"

The reason is that people can comment on an individual message within the thread so it may be out of order.

Wendy
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Wendy Williams

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Peggy ...

The uninstaller you should have used is the Adobe one ... not a third party one.

Just follow Jim's instructions to get the windows to float :)

Wendy