View the Embedded jpg saved in Nikon Raw's files in Lightroom

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Is it possible to have the ability to view the embedded jpg that is contained in the RAW files in the future . I tried in the community but there are very old post . The LR previews do not have the clarity that is displayed by the JPG NIKON D7000 like ACDSEE PRO software . For the first selection is most important see correctly the Embedded file.
Thank you
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Luke Skywalker

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Posted 3 years ago

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Steve Sprengel, Champion

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Embedded previews are only shown briefly while LR is computing or loading its own preview.

You can adjust the size of the Standard previews, yourself, in LR preferences, and that may change their crispiness.

What are you using the oversharpened Nikon rendering to judge?

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Luke Skywalker

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The Nikon Picture Control profiles I think is Standard . I compare sharpness compared to jpg built that saves Nikon RAW ( not the jpg produce the camera when you choose NEF + JPG ) . Then it compares the preview of the LR in the library or development with the jpg that the D7000 REV 1.05 produces . This embedded JPG, I can see for example with ACDSee Pro This software allows you to choose to display the raw or embedded preview . If we compare these files even with the first preview of LR , the best sharpness can be seen on the ACDSee Pro chooses embedded preview
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Steve Sprengel, Champion

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I don't understand.  What are you looking at the embedded JPG for in LR?

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Luke Skywalker

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In Library module workspace see the preview of lightroom not Embedded jpg.
(Edited)
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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The embedded JPEG preview raw file was never intended by the camera manufacturer to be used for the purpose of judging image sharpness. Many camera models don't even embed a full-size preview and all use a low JPEG Quality setting. These settings are not user-adjustable and prevent judging the "sharpness" and "quality" of an actual in-camera shot full-size JPEG image file. The only way to properly evaluate the camera’s JPEG versus raw file sharpness inside LR is to set your camera to shoot raw+JPEG with full-size "highest quality" JPEG selected in the camera settings.

SUGGESTION

The raw file embedded preview, exposure, contrast, color saturation, and white balance should be very close to an actual in-camera full-size JPEG file. Having an option in the LR Compare mode to view the raw file embedded JPEG preview next to the actual raw file with LR adjustments would be useful for making Develop presets to emulate in-camera picture settings.

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Simon Chen, Principal Computer Scientist

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The embedded JPG previews are used in Lightroom's Import dialog. Some customers uses the Import dialog to do the initial culling, doable but I am not sure I recommend a workflow like it.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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Thank you Simon. I just did a test with my 5D MKII to compare the 1) raw file 1:1 preview in the Import module to the 2) in-camera JPEG shot with raw+JPEG setting and 3) raw file inside the Library module with LR Default Develop settings. I used screen captures as layers in PS to compare the three files superimposed using layer selection. The Import module's embedded JPEG preview matches the actual camera JPEG with no visible differences at all. The LR raw file with Default Develop settings is very slightly sharper than the camera JPEG file using the 'Standard' default settings in-camera.

I retract my statement, at least for the Canon 5D MKII and presumably most other cameras with full-size embedded previews. You can accurately judge the in-camera sharpening as it would be applied to the JPEG without shooting raw+JPEG. So it's definitely beneficial to have this capability and would be most useful as an option in the Develop module's Before/After compare view selector. This would allow viewing the raw file's embedded preview real-time with the raw file while Develop adjustments are applied.
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Steve Sprengel, Champion

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Or you could shoot RAW+JPG and lock the JPG in the 2nd monitor and work with the raw on the main monitor. 

You could also use the OS utilities or ACDsee to display the embedded JPG of the raw file on the 2nd monitor while working on the image in Develop.

I think the OP is asking for the embedded JPG to be viewable during initial culling and deletion of bad images, something you'd do in Library not Develop.

The type of preview, embedded or rendered from raw data is something you can choose in Bridge, so if the OP has a CC license they could copy/cull the images with Bridge then import the remaining images into LR.

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Luke Skywalker

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Yes..but what has to be done is not to work in develop but choose the shot in library and sharpness of lightroom previews does not allow to evaluate them properly like the Embedded JPG. Thanks Todd &Steve 
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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Steve, here's the OP's post that lead to this Feature Request: https://forums.adobe.com/message/8649511#8649511

After thinking about this I believe there are numerous benefits to making the raw file embedded preview available inside LR. More details to follow in a separate reply here.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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Raw File Embedded Preview Utilization Inside Lightroom

The following suggestions are based on 45-years of experience in system design engineering, product marketing, and sales. It’s a long read....you’ve been warned!

It appears the majority of DSLR cameras manufactured over the past 10 years embed a medium to high quality, full-size JPEG preview inside the camera raw file. They have done this primarily to enable real-time review of raw files in the camera’s LCD display at up to 1:1 Zoom view. The embedded JPEG preview file’s purpose and function is identical to the Library module 1:1 Preview file. So are there any benefits of making the embedded preview file available inside LR and how should that be implemented? We already have the capability to review the raw file embedded preview in the Import module at up to 1:1 Zoom view. This can assist with culling of rejects prior to actual import, but as Simon Chen commented and I agree he wouldn’t recommend that workflow. So this one availability of “viewing” the raw file embedded preview provides minimal “benefit.”

After thinking about this over the past 24 hours I’ve come up with three new ways (i.e. features) of using the raw file embedded preview inside LR that provide real benefits. Two of these new features are easily implemented and the third is more difficult.

1) Provide an option in the Library module Grid and Loupe views and Develop module Before/After view to select the embedded preview, instead of the Library preview. Also provide an option in the Import and Library modules to use and retain the raw file embedded preview until actual Develop module adjustments have been applied.  

Benefits

-Images can be reviewed with the in-camera picture styles applied, which many users prefer. You could also change the Default Develop settings or apply a Develop preset, but that requires extra work. As camera manufacturers develop more sophisticated in-camera processing differences between the embedded preview and LR Default Develop settings will only become more pronounced.

-Using the Before/After view with the embedded preview next to the raw preview increases the accuracy and ease of adjusting the Develop module controls. It simplifies the creation of Develop presets for emulating in-camera picture styles. It will help new and inexperienced users learn how to use the adjustment controls. Users will also realize the full potential of raw files for going beyond the camera JPEG rendering.

-Enabling use of the raw file embedded preview until actual Develop adjustments have been applied allows reviewing images at 1:1 Zoom view in the Library module without having to build 1:1 previews. Yes, you can do that now in the Import module, but there is no way to choose Picks, Ratings, and other qualifiers. This greatly speeds the process of reviewing a large shoot and creating proofs for editors and customers.....or just plain kin folk! The long wait for 1:1 Preview Building to complete can be put off until you are ready to make Develop edits!

2) Provide an option in the LR Export module File Settings> Image Format selector for “Embedded” to allow export of the raw file’s embedded JPEG as a new file.

Benefits

-This eliminates the need to shoot and manage raw+JPEG pairs when rendered images are need real-time, such as shooting in “tethered mode.” In addition most cameras achieve a higher burst rate when set to shoot only raw format, which is required for sports and other action photography.

-Full-size Export of the embedded JPEG will be considerably faster than rendering and outputting the raw file. We hear it all the time, “Why is LR Export so slow!” This provides a viable option for quickly creating fully-rendered Export images for review by others.

3) Provide an Auto Tone option that uses the embedded preview image data to determine the Basic panel control settings for the raw file. I have no experience in this area, but it should be possible to create adjustment algorithms that calculate the control settings by matching the raw file data with the embedded file data. Without a doubt this feature is more difficult to implement, but might make the Auto Tone rendering more predictable and useful.

Benefits

-Allows quickly applying in-camera settings, which some users seem to prefer.

- Should provide less image to image variability due to differences in subject content.

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Luke Skywalker

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would be great
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Richard Rothwell

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom: Give us the option to view the Embedded JPEGs in NEF raw files.

I need to view the embedded JPEG in my Nikon NEF files. I have 80,000+ photos as NEF files, and most have been edited in Nikon's Capture NX [2] NEF RAW editor. That means the embedded JPEG shows the exact edits I made in Capture NX. When I view them in Lightroom 5.3 all that shows up is the preview version Lightroom created on it's own. If I've used Lightroom to edit the file then fine, show your preview, etc. But for NEF RAW files that were never edited in Lightroom, please give me the option to view the embedded JPEG. There is no way I'm generating a JPEG for, or re-editing 80,000+ existing photos in Lightroom.

One of the main reasons I just bought Lightroom 5.3 was as a catalog program. As I've used it it's become more apparent that with my 80,000+ existing photos, it's pretty useless because the preview image shown doesn't reflect the actual state of the image in the NEF file - which can easily be fixed by you using the embedded JPEG image. Simple things like cropping aren't shown, as well as any lighting, color, etc. effects - some are in black & white and show up as a color image. When I edit in Capture NX it updates the embedded JPEG with all the edits, so the embedded JPEG is exactly what my NEF RAW image looks like. In fact, once edited with Capture NX, the embedded JPEG becomes a full size, high quality JPEG that can be quickly extracted and used, for example by Photo Mechanic.

Again, if I've edited the NEF in Lightroom, then please use your generated preview image, etc. But for existing photos never edited in Lightroom, for God's sake let me view the embedded JPEG. You briefly use the embedded JPEG when I'm doing an import and then throw it away once you generate your own preview. So there's nothing stopping you from using the embedded JPEG, it's just a choice on your part. Give me the choice please, they're my photos, let me view them the way I want, one that perfectly reflects the state of the NEF file.
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Jao van de Lagemaat

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I would agree with many of the statements above that using the embedded jpegs could speed up initial culling and would love an option to do this. I understand Adobe's reluctance though to show previews that won't correspond to what you'll get when exporting or when taking into develop so this could be confusing to users as already the use of the embedded preview is for novice users. "Lightroom first shows a great image and then suddenly messes all of them up one-by-one" is a VERY common complaint on the user fora so this should be treated with care.

To Richard Rothwell's point, do realize that if you show the preview from the NEF that it always results in fairly low jpeg quality for the image as the preview in the NEF file is just a medium quality jpeg file. When you export the file from Lightroom you'll get a different result even if Lightroom could use the embedded jpeg as preview. Also, when a file is edited in CaptureNX is not an actual edited image, it is the original camera-produced NEF file with a set of rendering instructions that are only intelligible to CaptureNX. Lightroom will never be able to understand those instructions. Your best bet is to batch export those images to tiff files and use those in Lightroom.

What I would like to see is an option to extract the jpeg preview from a raw file and use them as separate images for very quick release. You can then autostack and use the jpegs as top image but still have access to the nef files if you wanted. That perhaps could be automated at import.
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Richard Rothwell

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Jao, understand that in Nikon's Capture NX, the embedded JPEG preview was updated at the first save of any edit, and went from a minimal preview to a great JPEG. The updated embedded JPEG was not a low quality image, but in the 90%+ quality range, full pixel size. The NEF was directly modified as far as the settings and edit parameters, as well as replacing the embedded JPEG, but sensor data was left alone.

I would then use Photo Mechanic to quickly extract the high quality JPEG instead of wasting time generating exports from Capture NX. It was a great workflow. So I know what's in all those thousands of files edited with Capture NX, a perfectly usable, high quality JPEG that I want to at least have the option to use for the preview, edits, etc.

Capture NX is dead but not all the images I have, so I want to interface with them using what's already there, not having Lightroom add effort for me to easily use those photos. Nothing wrong with having the option to do something...
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Jao van de Lagemaat

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Yeah would definitely be great to extract the embedded jpeg therefore.
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Cristen Gillespie

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I often use B&W JPEG+raw in order to aid in recomposing in camera, and later to ruthlessly cull based on the B&W, with no color to blind me to the truth about the image. I wouldn't mind if we could choose to see the embedded JPEG, but I wouldn't want that as the default. It's bad enough that an app like On1 doesn't show me the color raw file, but applies the B&W setting to it in the browser. Of course, as soon as I choose to edit in LR/PS, I get the color image, but that inability to strip my JPEG settings from the raw file and view them separately prevents me from using On1 for those images where I've chosen the dual save.

It's always fascinating for me to hear how many different ways we approach the raw workflow.  '-}
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Luke Skywalker

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to me it would be enough the chance to choose the embedded jpg or RAW .
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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After reading the responses it appears an option in the Import module to extract and stack the embedded JPEG file with the raw file would be very useful. A similar option in the LR Export module File Settings> Image Format selector (i.e. Embedded) is needed to allow extracting the embedded JPEG for files already imported. Neither of these implementations is likely to cause confusion for new users, which is good! This provides the minimum capability of using the embedded preview for pick and rating selection in the Library module and for output in the Export module.

You can also use Steve Sprengel's suggestion to lock the JPEG in the secondary display window to allow viewing it while making adjustments to the raw file. You can do this with a single monitor, but it's less than ideal. You can also use the secondary display window in its Compare mode with the raw and JPEG files selected. This is identical to the Before/After view with a few exceptions. The Histogram eyedropper tool, Red/Blue Overly Clipping Indicators, Tone Curve targeted adjustment tool, and HSL targeted adjustment tool cannot be used in the secondary display. So you would need to make those adjustments "visually." With the exception of those limitations it works very well for matching the raw file to the embedded preview. Here's an example:

(Edited)
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Luke Skywalker

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This would be great ...