Camera Raw & DNG: Sony RX100 raw + low resolution JPEG shots are misidentifed as being cropped

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  • Updated 4 years ago
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  • (Edited)
This appears to be a bug in ACR7.2 and Lightroom 4.2RC:

When importing RAW shots made with a Sony RX100, in the RAW+JPEG mode, when the JPEG part was set to less than 20Mpixel, Lightroom 4.2RC will misidentify the files as being cropped and will show a crop box centered on the image, even though both the raw and the JPEG did use the full size image. This happens regardless of the used aspect ration, i.e. the crop is not because of the use of a non-native aspect ratio.

Other reports of the same issue:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/47039...
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1067177
http://forums.adobe.com/message/46788...
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Giancarlo Pascutto

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Posted 6 years ago

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Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

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We'll fix this, thanks.
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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This may not just be Sony. I've just had a report of Canon 5dMk2 doing the same.
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Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

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This should not affect 5D II images. The default user crop mechanism was only introduced recently and only affects cameras newly supported in ACR 7.2 / LR 4.2, not models like the 5D II which were originally supported in 2008.

Perhaps you meant 5D III?

Also, the issue should be fixed for the Sony case in the final version of ACR 7.2 / LR 4.2.
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Giancarlo Pascutto

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I can confirm the RX100 is working fine in LR 4.2 (aside from other bugs I filed ;-)
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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Hmmmmm, I'm waiting to get hold of some files but here's the applicable thread: http://www.lightroomforums.net/showth... Perhaps it's a different issue.
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Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

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I think the user wrote that he/she is using a 5D III, and in that case, yes, Lr/ACR is respecting the in-camera crop (aspect ratio) setting but does not have a built-in way to recover the full recorded raw image. That ability was newly added in ACR 7.2/LR 4.2 for newly-supported models only (e.g., Sony RX100, among others), whereas the 5D III support was added in earlier versions of ACR/LR. As you correctly noted in that thread, that's where DNG Recover Edges can help.
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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My mistake, thanks Eric
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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Eric, if you read to the end of that thread that Victoria linked to, you'll see that there is an apparent inconsistency in relation to the "Add Cropping Information" custom function setting, i.e. when this option is selected LR is actually cropping Raw files, whereas it doesn't crop Jpeg files (that's when shooting Raw+Jpeg, I haven't checked when shooting Raw or Jpeg only).

EDIT: I now have checked, shooting Raw only results in a cropped file, shooting Jpeg only results in an uncropped file.

Furthermore, the 7D has a very similar custom function.....but when selected neither Raw or Jpeg files are cropped by Lightroom.

That seems to me like Lightroom is not handling files shot with that setting consistently (my expectations were that it wouldn't crop anything).
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Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

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This is handled on a per-model basis. Respecting the in-camera crop setting was specifically added to the 5D III when we added support for that model. It was not added for the 7D (an older model). What you are seeing is expected behavior.
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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Thanks. So taking the 7D out of the picture and talking only about the 5D3, why is a Jpeg treated differently to a Raw? Is that also the expected behaviour, as it doesn't feel quite right to me.
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Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

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It's not expected that a JPEG would be treated differently than a raw. However, it is the case that JPEGs are pre-cropped by the camera, whereas raw files are not. ACR/LR should be looking at the in-camera setting for the aspect ratio (I believe available in the Custom Settings for the 5D III) and cropping the raw file to respect that chosen aspect ratio (thereby matching the JPEG, if you're shooting raw+jpeg). Hope that makes sense.
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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Eric, yes that does make sense.....except for the fact that the JPEGs are NOT pre-cropped. Here's an extract from the 5DIII user guide in relation to the C.Fn3 menu item "Add Cropping Information":



The intention then seems to be to allow DPP to recognise the "cropping information" and do the cropping, but it is not done in camera. So the net affect is that Lightroom is recognising that cropping information with respect to the RAW file, and cropping accordingly, but isn't doing it for the associated JPEG. Hence my original point that the RAW and JPEG appear differently....one cropped, the other not.
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Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

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That is not my experience. In my testing, I shot several images with the 5D III in raw + jpeg mode, and the jpeg images are indeed pre-cropped. For example, a "large" JPEG shot in 1:1 aspect ratio mode has 3840 x 3840 pixels.

Are you getting different results in your testing?
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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Yes, I'm afraid so. See this screenshot, hope you can make out the relevant details.

I'll try to do some further testing, maybe there's a setting combination which triggers this....

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Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

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Can you send me the raw+jpeg pairs? madmanchan2000@yahoo.com (yousendit.com, dropbox, etc.)
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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Done.
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Joe James

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Hey guys,
I have found that someone was having the same problem as me after finding this link:
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/10953...

Basically I stupidly set my Canon 5D MK3 to 'add cropping information' to the display to highlight an 8x10 so I could use this as a guide as we had to shoot in this aspect ratio for a class assignment. When I try to import into Lightroom (and Photoshop for that matter) both applications do not recognise the original image as a whole and crop to an 8x10, hence I lose some of the information at the top/bottom of the image (even though I can see this in the RAW .CR2 file itself). I have added the plug called 'DNG Recover Edges' into Lightroom but this only works on a DNG (obviously) and even when I convert the .CR2 file into DNG I lose this information :-( I am desperate to get this back as I recently went to Brazil and some of photos have been cropped which means I sometimes lose the tops of peoples heads even though I can see the whole image cleary as a RAW .CR2 file.

Does Lightroom 5 or Photoshop CC fix this? (I am using Lightroom 4 and Photoshop CS5 at the moment...

PLEASE HELP!
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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If you can't get the "Recover Edges" plug-in to work, then the quickest way out of the problem is to open the images into DPP (where the images aren't cropped), then save them as Tiffs which you can import back into Lightroom.

I'll have a look at the Recover Edges plug-in when I get some time to see if I can figure out why it isn't working for you.

The same problem will exist in Lightroom 5, I believe.