Problems with the Camera Raw Filter and Nikon D850 Raws

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Hello,

I ́ve got Problems with the Camera Raw Filter and Nikon D850 Raws
I don ́t have these problems with my old Nikon D800 Raws.

Okay here is the scenario:

The picture is already open in Photoshop CC. (Newest Version)

I open Camera Raw Filter and use the luminance (up to 100) and luminance details (down to zero) to clean out the background. What I get in the previous windows is correct and looks good. See the picture.


imagepng


After pressing okay I got this. 


imagepng


Of course, it ́s not just the background. But there you can see best that it doesn't work.


Looks like, I would have reduced the opacity to 40% or something. But that's not the case.

So I don ́t get what I see in the preview window ... and when I can ́t see what I get, I can ́t work. 

I think the preview is right (it looks similar with the Raw Files from the D800)
But the result in photoshop is wrong. 

And as I already said, I do not have this problem with Raw Files from the D800, only with Raw files from the D850. 

So I think this is a clear bug. Especially because one guy of the adobe supports has told me he has the same problems.

But now my case is closed without a solution. That is very irritating.
Especially because I think, that a lot of people working with the D850 Raws and Camera Raw Filter. 

Can I get some help here? 


Greets 
André  


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André Dalla Valle

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Posted 8 months ago

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Johan Elzenga, Champion

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Your pictures are missing. When I click on them, it leads me to GMail...
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André Dalla Valle

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sorry, enclosed you'll find the two pictures 
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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It's working correctly for me as per your screenshots. Perhaps the Background layer was selected in Camera Raw? What happens if you use just the Background with NO layers?

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André Dalla Valle

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No it's definitely not working correctly, maybe the screenshot is not that good. But there is definitely a big difference between the preview window and the result. And it also happens when I not use any additional layers. And the main point is, when I use D800 raws everything works fine. This happens just with D850 Raws. Thats a clear sign, that there is a compatibility problem. I have another open case, with D850 Raw files. It ́s about the wrong white balance. And that case is still open. So there is obviously a problem with D850 Raws. Are there any D850 users out there ?  

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I have another open case, with D850 Raw files. It ́s about the wrong white balance. And that case is still open. So there is obviously a problem with D850 Raws.
I just read this again concerning a separate issue with D850 WB. It may very well be related to the issue being discussed here. Please provide details and links to any posts concerning the WB issue. Thank you.
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André Dalla Valle

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Here you can download the picture. https://adobe.ly/2TOrY2g 
But important you should open it in Photoshop and then choose the camera raw filter from the dropdown. Btw. I ́m working on a Windows 10 Pro. 
(Edited)
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It looks like maybe it's just a visual glitch. I see the same thing as you do, but when I zoom in to 100% (both in the filter preview as well as the image), then I see that the filter did its job just fine. The result is just what the filter preview showed.
(Edited)
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André Dalla Valle

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This is really weird. I really don ́t receive, what I see in the preview window. I just get 40% maybe 50%. Also when I zoom in. The result stays bad. I ́ve checked that on two different computers. Both windows 10 pro. And why does it work with the d800 rows properly? Okay, the resolution of the D850 is higher, that would maybe explain the zoom theory. But I don ́t receive what I see in the preview window. Even not when I zoom in. 
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On my Windows 10 system with PS 20.0.3 and ACR 11.2.0.135 the ACR edit preview and PS TIFF preview look virtually identical. Keep in mind when using any extreme settings such as Luminance 100 you may see slight differences less than 1:1 Zoom view. This is because ACR and PS uses different interpolation to create their less than 1:1 (100%) screen previews. Two things to try:

1) Try unchecking 'Use Graphics Processor' in Bridge> Edit Camera Raw Preferences> Performance. Restart PS and try again.
2) If the issue remains try changing your display profile to sRGB for standard gamut displays or Adobe RGB if using a wide gamut display.
https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-change-my-monitor-profile-to-check-whether-its-corrupted/
You'll need to close and reopen PS to have it load the changed display profile.



(Edited)
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First I have to say Thanks to all who are trying to help me. I really appreciate that. 

1) I know about the extreme adjustments, but it's the same when I choose a lower level.
And I don ́t have these problems with the d800 raws. I have this workflow for years with no problems.
The issue started with the d850 raws. And didn ́t change anything, just the raws.

2) I do not work with Bridge, I manage my photos in Lightroom. But no matter which way I choose. The result stays always the same. Also when I open the file on my computer directly in with Photoshop  

3) I've tried to uncheck the graphic processor. Did that already a couple of times with the adobe support. - but the issue stays the same

4) I ́m using an Eizo wide gamut monitor. I ́ve tried that advice with the color profile - but the issue stays the same. But I think it ́s not the monitor. Remember I do not have these problems with Raw from my old D800. That still works fine. 

Important: As I already told you, this happens if I open the camera raw filter via dropdown when the raw is already opened in photoshop. It happens not when I open the raw directly with photoshop. If I do my adjustments on the initial start of camera raw, I ́ll get what I see in the preview window. And that is similar to the results of what I get when I use the camera raw filter when the picture is already opened in photoshop. I could live with that result. But What I need is to see the correct preview window in my whole workflow. It happens now and then that I have to go to the camera raw filter while retouching my picture. So the preview window should show my always the correct preview. Otherwise, I can't work properly. And we all know that is very important. But why do I not have these Problems with my old raws from the D800.
(Edited)
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Important: As I already told you, this happens if I open the camera raw filter via dropdown when the raw is already opened in photoshop. It happens not when I open the raw directly with photoshop. If I do my adjustments on the initial start of camera raw, I ́ll get what I see in the preview window. And that is similar to the results of what I get when I use the camera raw filter when the picture is already opened in photoshop.
Sorry, I missed that workflow step. I can now duplicate what you're seeing. This difference between the Camera Raw preview and the opened image preview inside PS is due to two things:

1) As explained previously Camera Raw and the LR Develop module use a simpler nearest neighbor interpolation for creating the less than 1:1 Zoom previews. I see the same difference between the LR Develop module and Library module previews when applying 100 Luminance. The solution is to use more normal settings and in fact this image needs NO (0) Luminance Noise Reduction. The LR default settings (Luminance = 0 and Color =25) are fine.


2) When you open a raw file in PS using the Camera Plugin with 'LR Edit in PS' or 'Open As in PS' it creates a rendered TIFF file. When applying the Camera Raw Filter to this TIFF the affect of Luminance Noise Reduction is quite different since it no longer has access to the original raw data. If you really need to use this type of editing workflow 'Open as a Smart Object.

A better solution is to simply "fix the issue' using LR's tools. I assume you are trying to make the blue backdrop look more uniform, correct? The new local control Color Range Mask can be used with the Adjustment Brush or even simpler with a Graduated Filter dragged off the image. I used left mouse click drag to create five large square sample areas being careful to only select the blue background. It takes but a few seconds! Use the Amount control if necessary to restrict the adjustment to the blue background. In this case the default 50 setting works OK.

Here's the results:

(Edited)
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I ́ll post the second Issue later. It's about the wrong white balance information.
This issue is already in a special department of adobe.
Found it and will comment further at that post. https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/wrong-white-balance-information-from-the-d850...
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Thanks again Todd.

In my old workflow with the D800 Raws it was super easy to clean out the background with these two cam raw sliders that i ́m talking about. 
Create a mask with the quick selection tool. Use the sliders and get a super clean and creamy background in seconds. Yes, it's right, you don ́t need to use complete 100 and 0. But why spending time with finding the right adjustments that are enough. 100 and 0 always fits. 

I don ́t do anything in Lightroom, just library stuff. And yes the result is okay but not that good as they were with my old workflow.   

Before I ́m trying to find a workaround, I ́d like to figure out, why I can ́t work as I used to do any longer. What happened to the raw files? I think it ́s an entitled question.   

I would like to understand what it has to do with a newer or different kind of raw files, that I won ́t get a proper preview window in camera raw. Or maybe the preview is right (because it ́s similar to my old results) and the result is wrong.

This shouldn ́t be the case, regardless of any options for workarounds, or what ́s looking good on the picture or not, or how to handle a picture the best way in a workflow. 

I open the picture directly in PS, and then I choose camera raw from the menu. I do my adjustments as I did it a thousand times. And now I got these strange Issue.

You ́ve said you can also see that the preview (or result) is completely different. I ́ve asked a friend who ́s working with a mac. Same result. Someone from Adobe support team told me he has the same problem. I ́ve checked it on two different computers. Always the same. Am I really the only one who thinks that this shouldn ́t be the case? Especially if it was not like this before. 

Of course, I ́m always open for workarounds, but at the moment I can't accept that this issue is not an issue.




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In my old workflow with the D800 Raws it was super easy to clean out the background with these two cam raw sliders that i ́m talking about. 
Create a mask with the quick selection tool. Use the sliders and get a super clean and creamy background in seconds. Yes, it's right, you don ́t need to use complete 100 and 0. But why spending time with finding the right adjustments that are enough. 100 and 0 always fits.
I should have remembered what's causing the difference, but I've found your answer!

The actual 'Amount' of Luminance Noise Reduction applied to the raw image file varies dependent on ISO Setting and Camera Model. Apparently, the D850 has lower noise than the D800 so Adobe has "toned-down" the Luminance noise reduction. A setting of 100 Amount for D850 NEFs actually applies less noise reduction than the same 100 setting with a D800 NEF (see the below post).

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/noise-reduction-presets?topic-reply-list[sett...

Luminance Amount = 100, Sharpening Amount = 0

(D850 Right, D800 Left)




The best solution is to change your workflow and stop using the Luminace control. It really wasn't designed for this purpose (i.e. smoothing large image area defects). As suggested in my reply above you can use the Color Range Mask controls in LR or ACR to better achieve this editing objective.
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Thanks again for your answer Todd, now I understand. This is an Info I can work with.
Okay this is an explanation, not a solution. Because the wrong preview window will be still wrong. But I think there is no solution for it at the moment. And yes, it seems it ́s just in case of the  Luminance noise reduction. So I ́ll follow your advice and change my workflow. Life is all about change and learning, otherwise, it would be pretty boring. :-)  








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The ACR and LR Develop module preview differences with the opened TIFF or LR Library module view only occur when using extreme Detail panel settings. As mentioned this is because ACR and LR Develop module use the faster and less accurate nearest neighbor interpolation. When using more normal settings at 1:1 view to reduce noise and apply capture sharpening there will be very little difference between the two at any view size. If different it's because something other than ProPhoto RGB is being used for your PS working color space. This faster interpolation is needed to speedup screen preview generation to prevent lag in the control adjustment changes, but a non-issue with normal control settings.

The ACR and LR Color Range Mask can be applied as quickly or faster than "Quick Mask" in PS, but works a little differently:

https://blogs.adobe.com/jkost/tag/color-and-luminance-range-masking

If you still prefer the Luminance 100 method with Quick Mask try shooting using the D850 at a higher ISO setting. Because the NR controls are ISO aware it should behave the same as the D800 (set to ISO 100 setting) at one of the higher ISO settings (200, 400, 800). It may still work well at the higher ISO setting if you adjust the Detail panel Color, Luminace, and Sharpening controls at 1:1 Zoom view initially in ACR or LR to reduce any visible noise. Then with the resulting TIFF open inside PS apply the Quick Mask and Luminance 100 setting to the background area.
(Edited)