Photoshop: Pro Retouchers need better Liquify

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  • Idea
  • Updated 5 years ago
  • Implemented
  • (Edited)
Liquify needs an update to support:
1. Smart Objects
2. Command (control) F for redoes
3. Mesh speed-up

All of these issues are critical for high-emd professional retouchers who work with very (2 Gb plus are common) large layered files. Smart Object support would allow them to return to a move and refine. Command F repeat would allow them to apply the same move to multiple layers as needed, and finally the Save & Load mesh is painfully slow - so slow that many retouchers are forced back to CS4.

Liquify is used a LOT to make the beautiful more perfect - but it needs some attention to bring it up to speed with the power of Puppet Warp.

Thank you!
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PSDiva

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  • disappointed

Posted 8 years ago

  • 36
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edward.caruso

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the slow mesh saving/loading has been acknowledged - an update is coming. very late but I did hear its coming quite soon.
not sure the need for a command+F for multiple moves - saving and loading a mesh is the same. but i'm all for options as i know people have different workflows.
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Yup. We hope to have #3 addressed in CS5, soon.
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PECourtejoie, Champion

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Photoshop 12.0.4 addressed the slow mesh save.
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Since 1.0

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It would be helpful to be able to add guides to the liquify workspace. I have a workaround for this, but guides would still be more efficient.
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PSDiva

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Being able to Command F would be very helpful to apply the same Liquify quickly to multiple layers and or layer masks. But even making a quick Action that would respect the settings could work.
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carrie beene

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All of Katrin's suggestions would be awesome additions to Liquify! Especially Command F (something I've been whining about for years) or at least if we could set up an Action to repeat the liquify on multiple layers. As a retoucher I work with multi-layered files that have a gazillion Adjustment layer masks and if I do a liquify to my image I need to repeat it on any Adjustment layer masks affecting that area and going back into liquify and loading the mesh repeatedly is very time consuming and in CS5, which is crazy slow, it can take forever!

These are GREAT suggestions :)))))))))
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edward.caruso

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i too have to apply the same mesh to alot of masks - I've been trying to get the scripting people I know to see if they can make a script that could apply the same mesh to all masks but no luck so far. quick apply for last mask would be good then - saving the trip to the liquify window. maybe liquify gets a modal dialogue like color range and refine edge?
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jerry goldie

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Puppet Warp needs to be all redone, because it ́s slow, it ́s too much automatic with less control and on SmaretObjects it ́s doing mistakes when you have puppet warp on it and you are transforming the Smart Object with rotation tool, Scale tool and when you edit the content and go back it sometimes break up the whole image.
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Good idea.
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Mark Reynolds

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Yes Puppet Warp looks like a rushed feature. Large files.. forget it. The problem is, it is displaying a high res image in real time, and allowing distortions within the image window.
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Emilian Dechev

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Well this request is as old as photoshop CS3 :)

I just wanted to bring it to the new forum.

Smart liquify filter. Really, it will be very useful for retouchers!

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
SMART Liquify ?.
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Hosein Mahdian

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add "alt + right click + drag" for brush size change in liquify
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Peter Werner

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I'd love liquify to be integrated into the main interface as a new tool in the toolbar instead of being a huge clunky dialog box.
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carrie beene

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Well yeah! I guess we'd all like it to have the Liquify tool right there in the tool palette. I think they will get there some day. The only problem with that is if you need to repeat the stroke on all of the masks associated with the pixel edits
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edward.caruso

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yes this is why i avoid puppet warp. there is no way to save and load meshes. I think the dialogue is the only way to do this.
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carrie beene

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You can save the puppet warp as an Action to repeat the warp. I haven;t tried that, but Katrin Eismann told me it can be done that way :)
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edward.caruso

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i feel i don't get consistently great results from PW so I'm not excited about starting to record an action before using it each time. but i guess that's a workaround at least.
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carrie beene

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Yeah, I know what you mean, but at least there is that option. I saw a retoucher warping hair with the PW and thought that could be an interesting technique. You can put lots of pin points to hold the areas you don't want to move and then be pretty precise with the warp. It's certainly something to play with in any case :)
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edward.caruso

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Hmm - hair might be a good use for PW, never tried that. Hair doesn't work well in Liquify for me at least. I wish there was a way to lock the mesh so it doesn't rotate w/o having to place a million points all around. And I'd rather stretch the mesh with Bezier curves than pulling those unresponsive pin points. To me it takes a good pull before they move so it doesn't seem that precise to me.
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Check out this sneak of new Liquify features:

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Tommy Szewczuk

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it`s still inside an ugly plugin pop-up. it`s fast but still lacks many useable and helpful features found in many other pieces of software which are just as fast. but it`s a step in the right direction :-)
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Chris Cox

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Liquify needs a modal state to change out tools, offer other controls, remove tools and controls that don't apply, and commit the final result --- so it might as well be in a plugin.

And you didn't provide any specific or useful information about what it is lacking.
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edward.caruso

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Yes Liquify is great as it is functionally - speed improvement and other enhancments are welcome but it does not need to leave its modal state. I want to see Puppet Warp in a modal state so it gets proper mesh saving and loading like Liquify. This is one thing that prevents me from spending much time with PW. I'll go into my bezier curves transform idea elsewhere.
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Chris Cox

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Puppet warp uses a pseudo-modal state, similar to text and free transform. Yes, it needs a few more enhancements as well. (and probably deserves it's own topic: hint, hint)
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edward.caruso

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i think i've made topics about it, I'll have a look. It has alot of potential I just think it is very basic (and constricting in what its good at) as it is now.
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TeeKay

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It's in a popup window still. This is still pretty terrible... it's faster and has something closer to the Alt/Option+Right-Click and drag resize brush feature (but it's clunky and half-baked), and a way to hide half the options.

Liquify is modal, but it should NOT still be in a plugin window. Know what else is modal? The brand new Blur Gallery (Field+Iris+Tilt-Shift).

There are reasons we are complaining besides it being silly to have a popup window. We can't toggle visibility of other layers while 'Liquifying'. We still can't use Liquify with our Smart Layers. Now that the UI is (potentially) dark, there's yet another drawback to the popup. The list goes on and on, and there would be plenty of benefits for this to be outside of a popup window... and virtually no drawbacks.

There is no excuse for not getting around to this come CS6.5 if it exists or CS7. Please actually listen to the community and not give us a half-baked implementation yet again.

You guys have lots of time to add bloat to the software (video editing), but you still don't put real time into fixing something like this that has been clunky for years.
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Mark Reynolds

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There are reasons why this is presently impossible Teekay. The graphics card would have to render any layer blending modes, styles, ad*stments opacities of a multiple layered file on the fly while you do your editing.
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TeeKay

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Potentially true. Adjustments and blending modes are relatively quick calculations, and you can already smoothly paint (GPU accelerated) on layers below adjustment layers, blending modes, etc without much problems. Obviously liquify is more GPU intensive, but I still think this should be possible, without excessive lag.

Even if I'm wrong, I'd still MUCH rather have liquify out of that useless window, even if it ran like it does now and the only layer you see is the current one being modified, as well as the option for a layer below, like currently exists. There would still be great benefits.

At very least, liquify meshes should be allowed to be stored dynamically on Smart Objects and modified/deleted after the fact. The whole mess of having to save/load meshes if you wanted to go back in and change something (non-destructively)... is just a mess.
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edward.caruso

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having the ability to save/load meshes is vital for many workflows that you yourself might not use. almost all pro retouchers need to be able to load a particular mesh to different layers or layer masks in an image. its not just about being able to readjust a mesh on one layer.
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TeeKay

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True, I didn't really word myself properly. Saving and Loading meshes is great and shouldn't be removed or anything, but there should be a way to modify meshes, and applying them dynamically to a Smart Object (like the way Filters are applied) seems like a step in the right direction.
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edward.caruso

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about the modal dialogue box - i think it is absolutely necessary for liquify to use this - w/o i dont think it could have all of the features it has now. see puppet warp - a severely limited tool w/o a dialogue box (no save/load mesh!) - that i feel was designed for new users who would be put off by a separate dialogue box. if they change liquify to break it out of the dialogue and it loses functionality - all heck would break loose.
adobe finally added load last mesh and the gpu options to liquify so i dont think it will be touched for awhile at least.
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Peter Werner

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Blending calculations are currently done in real time for all layers. When you adjust layer opacity or blending options on a layer, it currently updates live. There is no reason why this shouldn't work for Liquify renders, too. You would be adding the computation time for the liquify operation of course, but that is currently also real time and GPU accelerated. Besides, both calculations would only have to be done at screen resolution when editing (i.e. only the portion currently displayed or a lower cache level when zoomed out). Being able to have Liquify work in context, especially on Smart Objects, would be a huge benefit.

As far as UI complexity goes, I'm sure the Properties/3D scene graph panel could be reused as it currently is for existing on-canvas filters like the new blurs and Lighting Effects (the CS6 version based on the 3D engine). A tool properties panel that displays all the options for the current tool would also make a lot of sense, it could replace things like the brushes panel, paragraph/character setting panel etc., maybe even the 3D panel, based on tool context. The current situation is basically a workaround that is required because some tools require more settings than fit into the options bar.

I completely agree, however, losing functionality is completely out of the question, of course.
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christoph pfaffenbichler, Champion

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As long as Photoshop’s Liquify is not applicable as Smart Filter and can save the mesh automatically/internally I use the feature only very reluctantly.
Unfortunately Puppet Warp and Displace Filter lack the full power of Liquify, so I’d like Liquify improved towards applicability as a Smart Filter.

I assume the Mesh being stored in the File would mean some bloat but still ...

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Photoshop: liquify filter applicable as smart filter without having to save the mesh separately.
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Peter Werner

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Agreed, duplicating the layer, applying Liquify, saving the map, applying the modification, deleting the liquified layer, duplicating the original again, loading the mesh, editing the mesh, saving the mesh, applying the effect and so on is a quite cumbersome workflow. I often find myself thinking "Do I really need to do this via Liquify or is there a different way to do this?". I don't really use smart filters all that often, but Liquify is the one case where it would make the most sense to me.

Displace has some great uses, but would also benefit from better integration (first step would be to make it accept channels instead of the clunky map file workflow back from the stone ages). Imagine if you could apply Displace live on-canvas and use all of Photoshop's paint tools, filters etc. to edit the displacement map live in context. Warp in Free Transform would have the potential to make a lot of things easier and reduce the number of times I have to launch into Liquify if only it let us adjust the number of subdivisions. Oh well.
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Official Response
Liquify can be applied as a Smart Filter in Photoshop 13.1 for Creative Cloud:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17-blB...

Mesh and general performance has been greatly enhanced for Photoshop CS6 (13.x) in general:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV08ER...
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POWALOWSKI

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I LOVE THE NEW LIQUIFY :-)
Thank you Adobe.