Perpetual licence

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  • Updated 5 months ago
  • (Edited)
I have a perpetual Licence for Lightroom 6. "Perpetual" is never-ending, infinite. My licence was paid for by buying a new Leica M camera at no small cost. It is a camera for life and I expected to be able to continue to use LR6 to develop the DNG (RAW) files. Recently, for whatever reason, this is no longer possible. I complained to the Adobe support team. They said it is a problem between Apple and Adobe.
That is not my problem. That is your issue and not mine.
I do not want to hear about your problems. I wish to continue to use my perpetual licence and I have a reasonable requirement to expect you to sort out your problems and not bother me with the detail.
There is a legal requirement to honour the perpetual licence. If you cannot fulfil that requirement then you must offer an equal alternative at no cost to me.
I did try LR Classic under a free trial. It is basically LR6 with maybe one addition that I don't need or want. When the trial ended I was told I would have to pay (to the nearest whole number) GBP10 a month = GBP120 per annum.
How sensible is that? I am nearly 70 years old and living on a small pension.
There is a way to resolve this. If you provide me with free use of LR Classic then I will stop complaining. If you say that I have to pay then I shall be forced to take this to the Small Claims resolution process in the UK. 
Small Claims Tribunals allow me to claim the cost of using an alternative to my perpetual licensed Adobe product. These tribunals are local to me and cost me nothing. If you lose the case you have to pay all your own legal costs and all my costs. Were you to win I would have to pay none of your costs. Large corporations who fail to fulfil their commitment to honour a perpetual licence are viewed unfavourably compared with trusting individuals who had their faith rebuffed.
I would like to offer you the chance to bypass the Tribunal process and be brave enough to offer me a sensible working compromise at very small cost to your corporation and of huge benefit to me.

In the meantime, while you consider this matter, please provide me with the full name of Adobe's UK Chief Executive Officer, together with his/her registered business address including Post Code, and a UK telephone number that is not a support desk.
Failure to provide me with that basic information would be seen as impeding the Small Claims process.

Yours sincerely

Peter Kilmister
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Peter Kilmister

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  • Angered by your failure to fulfil your commitment.

Posted 5 months ago

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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Hi Peter,

It sounds like you upgraded to Catalina. Sorry, Lightroom 6 was released nearly 5 years ago is not compatible with Catalina. https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/system-requirements/earlier-versions.html It was created to run on the following OSes: Mac OS X v10.11 (El Capitan), macOS v10.12 (Sierra), or macOS v10.13 (High Sierra)

Your best bet is to install one of these older OSes in order to continue to use your old Lightroom software.
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Edmund Gall

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Hi Peter! Sorry your software is no longer working. What operating system version are you running LR6 upon?

By the way, to help manage your expectations, I believe when a software company sells you a copy of their product with a perpetual licence, it does not mean that they guarantee the software will work in perpetuity in any given circumstance. Nor does it mean they will be giving you updated versions for free in perpetuity, nor grant you free access to different versions under a completely different licence (e.g. the £10/month subscription licence you mentioned). It just means that you can use a specific version of their software in stipulated circumstances & conditions (e.g. upon certain operating system versions) in perpetuity, provided those operating conditions don't change.

If, for e.g., you upgrade your computer, there is no way a software vendor can guarantee that any old versions of their product will work on the new operating system versions.

I'm no lawyer, and none of this in anyway should be construed as legal advice, so my understanding of what a perpetual licence means could be entirely wrong. But if it isn't and the reason your LR6 no longer works is related to the above, I'd guesstimate your chances of getting a small claim decision in your favour to be nearly nil. Thus, I'd recommend any friend in your situation should continue to seek a technical solution, rather than a legal one. In that respect, if you share some more info about the system upon which you're running LR6, and any changes made to it between the time it last worked and when it began to malfunction, folks may be able to help you here (or confirm whether Adobe Support got it right).

Good luck!..

NOTE: I'm not a representative of Adobe – I'm just a fellow customer who upgraded from LR6 perpetual to the newer versions of LR under a subscription licence some years back because I needed to upgrade my computer hardware & operating system and maintain my use of LR...
(Edited)
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Dan Hartford Photo

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That is not my problem
Peter,   I know it is frustrating when things that used to work don't work anymore.   and I too have had fits when Software I truly love fail to survive a software or hardware upgrade.  For example, I had to say goodbye to Outlook 2003 when it would no longer work on my new computer.  After lots of complaining, bitching, moaning, and web searches for hacks to make it work I finally just bit the bullet and got Outlook 2013  (this was in 2018 as I recall) - (still using Word, Excel, and PowerPoint 2003 though but I suspect their days are numbered as well).

But contrary to your comment, in this case it actually is your problem because you changed the operating environment used by your perpetual license version of LR.  You most likely upgraded your operating system to an incompatible version and perhaps changed hardware and drivers in the process.  And now you want to blame someone else for your choice.  If your OS manufacturer did not give you a choice (e.g Windows/10 Home) then your beef is with them, not Adobe. 

A perpetual license means you have legal permission to use the SW as is for as long as you wish.  Many times "maintenance" is included till the next or subsequent version comes out - sort of like the factory warranty on a new car goes away after a period of time or miles .  But Perpetual License does not mean Perpetual Support nor does it imply Perpetual Upgrade.  

I'm quite sure that if you went back to the operating environment you had when LR6 went off of support (the end of it's warranty period) it would work just fine.

Assuming the last line of your post was not just venting, I would suggest that any time, effort, or money you spend in pursuing litigation will not result in a finding in your favor.  I do not work for Adobe nor I am I compensated in any way for participating in this, or other, forums so I have no incentive to defend Adobe in any way.   I'm just calling it as I see it.  Many with way more resources than I assume you have have tried to make such a legal claim but none have succeeded.  Unless you can find some fine print in some Adobe document or advertisement guaranteeing Perpetual Support or Perpetual Upgrade or that it will work on any and all future technology, I doubt you'll be the first to prevail in such litigation, but if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out.
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Peter Kilmister

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I also have a Perpetual Licence for LR5. That is still working under OS10.15 Catalina so I am using LR5 as an interim solution. How come that works and LR6 doesn't? I have worked with computers since 1967 so I do understand compatibility problems. Adobe personnel have admitted that they didn't know about Apple's plans. I doubt it. This whole thing is a stitch up ... or a stick up! 
The word "Perpetual" has one meaning. If they didn't mean it they should have avoided its connotations. Anyone who offers a guarantee has an obligation. A perpetual offer of service cannot be annulled by anyone but the holder of the licence without the licensor providing an alternative at no charge.
(Edited)
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Dan Hartford Photo

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A license is not a guarantee.  A license is a "permission to use it as it was intended to be used within a range of specified operating environments",  A guarantee is a promise to fix it if it was not created correctly or ceases to operate as specified during the duration of the guarantee.  A SW perpetual license includes a written or implied guarantee for the duration of the support period.  The minimum support period is typically measured by the introduction of new versions (eg ver 3 will be supported until version 5 is released) or a time period (eg ver 3 will be supported for 12 months after the release of ver 4).  No company which expects to stay in business long can provides a perpetual guarantee on any product.

Even "full" or "unlimited" as opposed to ":Limited" warranty's, according to US Law,  have an implied end based on an expected life span of that type or class of product.  You're not going to get a free replacement for a 100 year old toaster as the generally expected life span of a toaster is maybe 25 years - even if it came with an unlimite4d warranty.  Case law is full of findings that support the expected life span of the product idea. 

In addition, a change in the operating environment is never covered unless explicitly stated.  For example, If I bought a toaster in Boston in 2010 and then moved to London in 2019 and the toaster blew up because it was designed for 120v and London uses 220v, that is a change in operating conditions and even if the toaster had an unlimited, forever warranty it would not be covered.  Likewise, when one purchased LR6 under a PL there was a "system requirements" statement which was part of the deal.  This specified which Operating systems AND VERSIONS the product was compatible with.  If you are using a newer one that is not on that list, and wasn't added to the list while LR6 was still under support then you are using LR6 outside of the specified operating environment and you are on your own. 
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Peter Kilmister

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The Small Claims Tribunal is a UK facility which allows individuals to take a corporation to a hearing. The complainant pays a small fee and there is no other cost. The complainant chooses the location which is usually near to where they live. If the complaint is upheld then the corporation pays the complainant including costs. If the corporation wins they can claim nothing from the complainant.
There is probably nothing like it outside the UK. I am confident that most corporations steer clear of these cases. Most cases are found in favour of the complainant or settled long before a hearing.
If a corporation designates anything as Perpetual then they only have themselves to blame when it goes awry.
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Dan Hartford Photo

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That's a nice system.  I'll be very interested to see how this one turns out if Peter takes it down that path.
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Edmund Gall

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Two follow-up comments, Peter:

"I also have a Perpetual Licence for LR5. That is still working under OS10.15 Catalina so I am using LR5 as an interim solution. How come that works and LR6 doesn't?"

I don't know. Especially since according to Adobe's own advice, a catalog used in LR 6 will not work with LR 5 – so, if you've managed to open your LR6 catalog in LR5, I'd imagine Adobe's developers would be interested: https://helpx.adobe.com/uk/lightroom-classic/kb/catalog-faq-lightroom.html

I'm also UK-based. The interpretation of 'perpetual software licence' was tested in the UK courts in 2010, but let us know if your claim arrives at a different outcome: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/23/perpetual_software_licence_ruling/

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Peter Kilmister

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Edmund, I don't bother with catalogues. When I launch LR5 I place my SD card in the card reader and import DNG (RAW) files, develop them and export as JPG files to my hard disk. What LR5 does with them is of no interest to me.
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Peter Kilmister

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When I completed the feedback form it was my understanding that this was between me and Adobe. I had no idea it would appear in a forum. How do I edit my first entry to remove my email address?
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Johan Elzenga, Champion

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Done.
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Peter Kilmister

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Thank you!