Output from Lightroom as "Untagged RGB"

  • 1
  • Question
  • Updated 4 months ago
  • Answered
I would like the option of outputting files from Lightroom as "Untagged RGB".  Could this feature be added?  Some years back I started a conversation about this, which basically devolved into a discussion about why on earth would I want that.  Rather than get into a lengthy debate, let's just say I'd like that functionality for the same reason that Adobe regularly uses untagged images on their web pages.  For example, some of the images on this page: https://www.adobe.com/

Thanks,

Martin
Photo of Martin van Hemert

Martin van Hemert

  • 5 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes

Posted 4 months ago

  • 1
Photo of Andrew Rodney

Andrew Rodney

  • 1014 Posts
  • 219 Reply Likes
No, no you don't. RGB mystery meat is bad, very bad. And LR should never allow this! And it never will. 

If you really must, find a way outside of LR to strip the profiles which are (for RGB Working Spaces) a mere 4K in size. 

Don't request Adobe do something really damaging to its user base. If you want to hose the RGB data, do so on your own. Use Photoshop if you must.  
Photo of Martin van Hemert

Martin van Hemert

  • 5 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom - Add export option "Untagged RGB".

I would appreciate the option to export files from Lightroom as "Untagged RGB".
Photo of John R. Ellis

John R. Ellis, Champion

  • 5117 Posts
  • 1450 Reply Likes
"I'd like that functionality for the same reason that Adobe regularly uses untagged images on their web pages.  For example, some of the images on this page: https://www.adobe.com/"

I don't think Adobe is following best web-design practices here. Untagged images can look pretty bad in the Firefox browser on a wide-gamut display. Tagging them with sRGB would ensure the images look the same in all the leading browsers. 

Including the sRGB ICC profile in those adobe.com images would increase their file size by 3K, a measly 1.5%.  But if you really cared about that last 1.5%, you could follow my suggestion in our last discussion about this: Use the free Exiftool in an Export preset post-processing action to replace the 3K ICC profile with the tag EXIF:ColorSpace = sRGB.
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1947 Posts
  • 654 Reply Likes
FireFox 74.0 assumes sRGB for untagged images on my Windows 10 system.

(How does your browser interpret untagged images?)
https://cameratico.com/tools/web-browser-color-management-test/



Photo of Andrew Rodney

Andrew Rodney

  • 1014 Posts
  • 219 Reply Likes
It assumes sRGB on Mac too; just checked. Both Safari, Photoshop (assign sRGB) and FireFox produce identical previews on a wide gamut display. 
Photo of John R. Ellis

John R. Ellis, Champion

  • 5117 Posts
  • 1450 Reply Likes
By default, Firefox color-manages tagged images but not untagged images:

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox/Releases/3.5/ICC_color_correction_in_Firefox

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=455077

Perhaps you changed the preference gfx.color_management.mode to 1 (color-manage all images) at a time when the default was 0 (no color management).  You can verify the setting in your config by going to URL about:config and searching for gfx.color_management.mode.

The current default is 2 (color-manage tagged images but not untagged images). I verified this by installing Firefox 74 in a virgin Windows virtual machine, and gfx.color_management.mode = 2.

Here are the test results of Firefox 74 on my MacBook Pro with a Retina (DCI-P3) display:


Photo of Andrew Rodney

Andrew Rodney

  • 1014 Posts
  • 219 Reply Likes
Yes of course, you MUST turn color management on in this silly browser or untagged images are only one part of the issue. Yes, mode zero is worthless. Without color management, assuming an untagged color space is only one part of the needed functionality; the display profile has to be identified and used for previews. None of that is happening with color management OFF in Firefox. gfx.color_management.mode set to 1 (color-manage all images) is the only setting this silly browser should support. 
 
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1947 Posts
  • 654 Reply Likes
John, you are correct. In fact there are two settings you need to make manually for full color management.

Photo of Martin van Hemert

Martin van Hemert

  • 5 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Thanks  Andrew and John for your replies.  John, You have a good memory!  I will take a look at the Exiftool that you mentioned last time.