Lightroom Classic: Noise Moire with Canon 10D

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  • Updated 6 months ago
  • (Edited)
I'm seeing a heavy Moire pattern in the noise on my raw images when using the Graphics Processor option with an Nvidia 780. Oddly, it's only visible on horizontal images and disappears when making adjustments.
Sample attached.
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eartho

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Posted 6 months ago

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Stephen Newport

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Does it transfer to photoshop or in any form of exported file? If not it is likely a preview file/smart preview artifact. Try discarding the previews for the file and rebuilding.
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eartho

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Thanks Stefan, definitely already tried a preview purge with no change. 

A few more details which might be relevant...

- issue is visible in Develop with all Full Screen modes when set to Fit
- display res is 2560x1440
- only happens with raws from a Canon 10D

I'm thinking this happened with the noise reduction fix in the last release and is being provoked by some specific combo of screen res and raw size.
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Steve Sprengel, Champion

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Can you supply an original raw via dropbox or similar that can be used to demonstrate the result?   I expect you've cropped your original sample image to avoid showing the subject's face but do you have others that maybe don't have a human so would not have a privacy concern?  The 10D is an old camera that not too many people would have by now, I expect.

What Preview size do you have set?  I believe using Fit Zoom will ask the display subsystem to resample the JPG preview that is the next largest from whatever the display size is, so your preview size will probably matter, although your display resolution is I think very similar to what a Smart Preview gets resampled down to so maybe LR is also doing something special with that particular size.

Is the pattern there because no NR is being applied to the preview?  Does it change when you crank up the NR significantly or not?  To me, the pattern looks like what happens when an image with micro-detail (no NR) is resampled to something almost a multiple of the starting image.

If it only happens with the GPU turned on then maybe the video card driver isn't behaving as it should.
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eartho

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Hey Steve, yes the 10D is ancient, but i have a ton of images from when i used to have one and i've lately been going back and re-coloring a lot of them since the ACR engine is massively better than when i did my previous grade back in LR2.

Preview size doesn't seem to have any effect with this issue, and NR will lessen the moire but it's still there with values less than 35.

Here's a raw which has the moire visible in the sky:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l696qzfgbp3iadk/050807_ClarkCo_032.CRW?dl=0
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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The moire is very visible in both the Develop AND Library modules with Sharpening set to 100, 1.0, 50, 0. If you then export to TIFF with those Sharpening settings the TIFF displays the same moire in LR, but not in PS. I believe it is due to implementation of DirectX in the display path as I reported here:

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lr-classic-noise-reduction-effect-not-display...
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Steve Sprengel, Champion

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Moiré patterns are easy to see in the Camera Raw plug-in to Photoshop, if you abuse the Detail slider and use Scrubby Zoom (click-drag the mouse diagonally) to set non-simple-multiple zoom values, similar to what Fit and Fill would do in LR, but with a wide variety of arbitrary zoom amounts, not just the two in LR.

Cranking up the Detail slider causes alternative light and dark pixel rows to be created which cannot be easily smoothed with NR. 

I'd be curious if the OP's original problem with Canon 10D images might disappear if the Detail slider is set to zero, or lower than it is, now. 

Here is what I see in the ACR plug-in for Photoshop if I set a zoom amount just slightly higher than 50% along with maxing out the Sharpen-Amount and Detail sliders:

Of course, with the detail slider that high (or anything very high), causes a maze pattern to become visible in the image, which causes moiré easily:



More to the OP's original point, even turning down the sharpening values to more reasonable levels, including a Detail=0, there is a slight bit of rectangular patterning in the sky at a non-simple zoom value:

(Edited)
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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I can see the same moire artifacting with my Canon 300D, which is the same 6.3 Mp base model as the 10D. I can't see the moire artifacting with my 20+ Mp Canon cameras, but do see something that looks like noise. My guess is that BOTH are being caused by changes Adobe made to use DirectX in the display path rendering. Here's the link again with instructions:

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lr-classic-noise-reduction-effect-not-display...

....and here's the above file exported to DNG with my settings that exhibit the issue:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kjiykop04v1gqgj/IMG_5156.dng?dl=0

When switching from the Develop module to the Library module with 1:3 Zoom View setting it can take up to 15 sec. for the artifacting to appear. I have no idea what could be causing the delay, but again it appears to be due to the changes Adobe made in the display path preview rendering.

If anyone has LR 5 or 6 installed give it try. I'm guessing they won't exhibit the issue.