Elements: Moving Mac PSE/PE 13 catalog to Windows 10

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Hi,I have what is looking more & more like a major ordeal & figured it best I post here to this forum that averted a crisis before & I hope can this time too.I have a huge PE/PSE 13 catalog on an older '08 MacBook Pro 17 running OS Mac 10.8, & backed up to external hard drives. Despite upgrading the HDD/RAM, I've realized after considerable time(easily a year or more) organizing, tagging, keywording, about 20 yrs of photos/video footage it clearly is way too slow to edit videos at a sane pace(only 256mb of graphics memory isn't helping!).So, I managed to save up & get a good MSI GP73 laptop w/i7 hexacore, 16GB RAM, & GeForce 1050 ti dedicated 4GB graphics card. It is running Windows 10 home(you probably now see where this is going). I mainly chose Windows due to considerably higher cost for a comparable Mac, AND the fact the Mac version of Elements has several features & plugins oddly n/a on 13(I also bought the Windows version same time as Mac just in case).Can someone please tell me how to best move all this to my new pc, & the general steps? Am honestly not sure what to think, as searches have turned up PE/PSE 13 & Win 10 work fine & others saying NO. And claims of the importance a catalog should be moved to a same Elements version(13)? Would getting a PE/PSE 14 copy solve this or no due to latter issue? Or maybe contact MSI & request a previous Windows version like 7 maybe? I'm pretty unsure what to do, I really like the new laptop & would hate to have to return it over such a stupid issue. Can someone PLEASE HELP? ATR or anyone?Thanks very much in advance! Mark
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Mark Lucas

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Posted 1 month ago

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Steve Lehman

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Your version 13 will install on Windows or Mac.  At first glance at your note, I think your PSE 13 will do just fine.  I have many PSE and 14 is one which worked for a long time then messed up due to an update in Win-10 but 13 could have done that too just the same, and what happened wasn't a big change in version 14.  Instead of resolve trivial problems I work around them, and it was only the way the program behaved on the screen, if I happened to click the border it will folder into a minimized state which can be clicked back to normal.  It didn't do that before but I don't care.   None of my other programs do that so it wasn't Windows, and I won't reinstall an Adobe program for such trivial things.  If I wanted to replace 14 I can do that with version 12, never used, and I happened to get it through a scanner install.  So I have lots of PSE from version 3 to version 14 and CS Photoshop's too that I can refer back to or setup new.  Good choice selecting Windows, as my particular choice also.   

Steve Lehman, mcse



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Mark Lucas

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Thanks so much Steve for all your input, plan to take this on tomorrow hoping it works!
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Steve Lehman

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For my information about the catalog, I never use that area, but I had heard lots of complaints about it with version 15 and a few for version 16.  Versions 13 and 14 didn't get many catalog complaints.  I haven't heard much about 2018 version.   There is a guy on here that knows the catalog well and can help you with it.   So come back and use "catalog" in your heading, your PSE version, and OS.  He looks for those.   

SL


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Mark Lucas

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I "successfully" did a full catalog backup today on the Mac with a new external drive bought w/the laptop. As per usual, it refused to do an incremental despite following the correct method. One more example of issues I suspect are Mac + Adobe specific(just guessing here) that I'd like to distance myself from.
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Michel BRETECHER, Champion

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The process is described here:
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop-elements/kb/backup-restore-move-catalog-photoshop.html

The transfer to another computer is a very common task, even to another computer with a newer Elements version. The only difference is the transfer from Windows to Mac which is explained at the end of that paper. I don't have a Mac, so I have no personal experience with it. However, I have not seen reports of issues for that transfer to a Mac in this or other forums.

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Steve Lehman

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Michel,
I've always wanted to ask this, is your name Michel pronounced like "Mitchel" or Michelle".  Few days ago I met a customer whose last name was Michel but she said it's pronounced like "Michelle".   
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Michel BRETECHER, Champion

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It's like "Michelle", no difference.
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Steve Lehman

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Is there a catalog transfer from Mac to Windows?  That's what he wants. The catalog transfer is good help.   BTW Mark, Michel is the go-to guy for catalog help.   



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Michel BRETECHER, Champion

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Is there a catalog transfer from Mac to Windows?  That's what he wants.
Thanks Steve, I have missed that important point.
I have never seen a request for transfer to Windows from Mac. I have never seen any help doc about this either.
That may mean that this kind of transfer via the backup and restore process works like in transfers to identical OS platforms.

I am not sure either, but (long ago...) it seems that you could share a catalog and library stored on an external drive between a Windows and a Mac computer. I think that the contents of a backup folder are not specific to an OS, but I may be totally wrong.

It would be easy to test the process with a very small catalog created for testing purposes.

If that does not work, we are left to the usual case of transferring catalog and library for a third party software.
- Transferring the library to an external drive can be made by moving it by drag and drop to the external drive or via the backup/restore method.
- Before transferring, it's necessary to "write metadata to files" to recover tags, captions, ratings. Since albums, stacks and version sets are not restored, you can replace albums with a specific keyword for each album.
- You can also save the tags and albums structure by  saving them into txt files and recreate the structures in the new computer before importing.
- Then you reimport all
- If you want to move the library and catalog back from the external drive, use the backup/restore method.






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Steve Lehman

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The file paths between the two OS will be different.  Windows has a DOS path, Mac does not.   Also, their commands are slightly different.  Maybe we need to search for a PSE catalog transfer, otherwise, use Laplink which is a software file mover and comes with its own transfer cable which is totally different than a USB cable or any other cable.    It has a middle "equalizer" module to make sure the files are moved along the cable.   It usually moves files to a file only, then you need to move the same files in the new computer to the right folders.  
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Steve Lehman

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Look for Laplink for Mac to Windows transfers to make sure its software is good for each computer.   
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Steve Lehman

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Mark

You can transfer files using the network method by using your network cable, from domain to domain or computer names if networked, (see instructions below).  

Also, you can copy files from a backup disc or external drive (recommended foremost).  

Transferring directly from Mac to PC is tough since Mac does not have DOS.   The Windows file-paths won't be the same.  A transfer using Laplink (PC-Mover) will not work from Mac to PC.  I have a Microsoft method below, meanwhile, you can try to use your network cable to link computers:   
If you decide to transfer files with your network cable, here's how to do it:  


1.  make sure both computers are on the same network cable.  
2.  In Windows find the Command Prompt.  If you cannot find it, Cortana will find it.
3. At the C prompt, (in a DOS window) enter "ipconfig" (no caps, without the quotes), press enter. 
4. It should show your IP address under Ethernet Adaptor or Wireless LAN (like 192.168.0.20).
5. Now go to your Mac computer and press Command-K.
6. enter "smb://" (without the quotes) and then enter that IP address and press return.  
7. Click your registered User or enter your user name and password, for Windows 10. 

8. Click Connect.  It might take a few minutes over a network/wifi connection.

9. a window marked “Select the volumes you want...” will appear with the User options.

select your user name (press ok if needed) then select your files, click ok

10. Open a Finder window.  You will see the SMB share, marked as IP address in Shared in the sidebar.  Click that and click User (if needed).  It’ll show files.  Copy files to and from Windows.  

Since i cannot see your screen, it's hard to get my assistance and I hate to give assistance without actually seeing the screen.   So your best for this transfer through network cable.   Any transfers or connections with the network cable need an IP address.  You cannot work around that. 

Alternatively, I did find a program quietly made and released from Microsoft a year ago that will transfer files from Mac to Surface which is a PC laptop with Windows 10 which is the same Windows platform.   It transfers files between computer, via network cable and has it's own transfer module.   https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/20/14984518/microsoft-surface-apple-mac-to-windows-migration-tool  It has a downloadable software program that runs in Windows, that allows a selection of files.  I assume it runs in Mac or will find and pull files into Windows.   If it works on your Mac, it should open like a Windows operation (even on Mac) and will have a list of files to select both ways.  One selection is "desktop" which is a good sign.  You can use the network cable for this.   If you use a USB transfer cable, note that is not a USB transfer cable.  A transfer cable has an electronic  "lump" (equalizer) in the middle of the cable that balances the impedance within the cable for both sides to make it compatible for both computers.   In electronic engineering we call that "lump" a "match-box" but Laplink may have a different name for that.  My final caveat is, I have never used this Microsoft program.   

Steve Lehman, mcse   



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Mark Lucas

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Thank you both Steve & Michel all this info is greatly appreciated! First off tomorrow I plan to give the Elements 13 install to Windows 10 a whirl, then go from there(if it's any help my laptop build date is way back in March so that's the Win 10 version it has). Naturally if install goes well I'll be terrified to update 10!
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FWIW, when I replaced my Mac's original drive I bought the kit from OWC to turn it into a working external drive & that kit included a USB cable(3.0 micro on one end) w/the lump in middle you spoke of. I hope this can be helpful to my problem.
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Michel BRETECHER, Champion

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Thanks Steve for the explanations about Mac features.

I just want to come back to what I said if no practical way of transferring from Mac to PC is found.
Then you are in the situation in which you transfer your files for management by another software on a different computer, with or without the same OS. Or in the situation when you want to share a recent PSE catalog version with somebody else and an older PSE version.

1 - There can't be a catalog catalog conversion. Your goal is to include the organizing features in the files themselves and recover them by re-importing in a new empty catalog.

2 - The transfer of the media files library is explained in detail by Steve.

3 - Storing tags and captions in the media files header or xmp sidecar files is a pre-requisite

4 - Reimporting the files in a new catalog will lose albums, stacks/version sets, albums and keywords hierarchy structures. You can prepare your files before moving and reimporting to recover albums and hierarchies. The following faq from John R Ellis my help understand the process better:
http://www.johnrellis.com/psedbtool/photoshop-elements-faq.htm#_Merging_Catalogs

5 - The folder hierarchy itself is not really an issue if you are organized with your virtual tags and albums hierarchies.
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Mark,

I want to correct you on a few things before you get started.  

1. The cable you have is a 3.0 cable and with its "lump" it may not be a transfer cable but is for a 3.0 USB cable, merely a faster USB cable.  The 3.0 cables look this way and are for rapid data exchange but is not exactly for stable data transfers from storage and drives.  Please get a traqnsfer cable from Laplink you'll be glad you did.  Spending a few dollars on one is worth it.  

2. While doing a backup of your catalog onto an external drive is best, an incremental using Window backup utility may not be as good as you think.  Windows may not return the copy unless it is from that computer and even then it may not recognize it.  Windows has had that problem in the past  with its backup utility.
  
My personal rule of thumb is to do the old copy/paste to copy files to an external drive folder, although that may take longer to select each file, but when you copy back your files, you will do the same copy/paste again and you won't have a problem with the Windows copy utility. 

I've gotten into this habit of the copy/paste to a folder in the external drive when I copy files to the external drive then back to another newer PC.  You can always hold the control key to mouse-copy several files at once then right-click to copy quick, then right-click to paste to its destination folder. 

If you copy to a new PC by using the Windows backup utility, sometimes Windows might 'see' your destination disc (even an external drive) as a "foreign disc" to that computer.  I'll tell you why.  In 1999 Microsoft made such "foreign discs" change to "read only" discs (corrupted them) because the company was battling disc piracy with its own Windows software which appeared to be exactly the same as coming from Microsoft when actually it was not their real software.  I would hate to see your entire external drive be corrupted into a "read only" condition.   Be careful.  The copy/paste method prevents this mistake.   

Don't forget you are copying tags and all data for your catalogs.  Don't lose the files.  You want it all in a copy/paste method and plan your moves and be careful with what you do.   

From here forward, Michel will help you with the catalogs.  But paste them into their folders.  Frankly, I don't use the catalog, as I use my own system of folders within folders to sort everything and then I know where everything is as I label stuff accordingly.   I am hearing lots of engineers are using this method successfully.   Yes, the catgalog files are weird when you get to version 15.  Eventually you will upgrade so my suggestion is to find a different method of filing as an alternative, to give yourself a break.  

My filing is like this:  In the Pictures folder, I make another folder for "My customers" then inside that folder, I make another folder with my customer's name on it, then inside that folder as I worked on their photos in the editor I have each of their photos in a number-order such as name-1a and name-2a according to each photo.  Then to save each edited movement like a layer, (from the editor) I save the photos (consecutively) as name-1b and name-1c.  That way I have an hierarchy or an order to which I can find everything, and each is saved consecutively as I go along. 

I don't expect you to conform to my filing, but we use this method in our business so that another editor can take over my photo work and all of it makes sense to everyone and we just keep working using consecutive files and folders.  I always will have a date and time the folder was made, and the photo was made, etc.  I only need to right click and click on Properties to find that information.  It's a system we use in our company and it works for all of us.  And, this is why I don't use the catalog.   



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Mark Lucas

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Wow, thanks for all this info greatly appreciated - but this sure sounds like wrestling a gorilla just to move over my Mac PE 13 edit history! I suppose the one thing to keep me going in this direction is to come close to this new Windows laptop's video editing prowess in a Mac I'd spend $2,500 +. And I'd have to forego the 17" display.

Briefly(before I install PE 13 today):
In moving over from Mac to Windows, what about
the countless edit marks on my video footage & an extremely complex 12 sec film logo video project(where I realized the Mac is WAAAY too slow) - am I even able to move these over???

And are you saying I shouldn't even bother attempting to use the "Restore Catalog" utility to at least TRY to move it over from Mac to Windows? I only ask as Michel stated he's seen catalogs shared between different OS in the past. And maybe the utility has some way of the 2 OS's communicating? Maybe a "pie in the sky" after all your PE experience & what you've said, but as Michel said he's seen no issues/write-ups on this. That seems suspicious, w/all the lacking features in the Mac PE vs Win & nobody out there going Mac to Windows like me? Or is it I obviously impossible due to the DOS issue you discussed & nobody else is even crazy enough to attempt like me? Btw, I do agree with you on finding another catalog method - have had no luck with it frankly it's a piece of sh*t.
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I forgot about the restore catalog feature.  That works.  I'd use that after you pull it over to the PC but that's only me talking.  Do whatever you think is best.  Work with Michel on the catalog area.  Videos should pull over okay.   It's your call about catalog versus new methods.  The only thing that's different is converting from Mac to PC which few have done.   Sure it's scary but you won't know until you try.  Your mac will stay the same. The only thing I would see is that the catalog might be missing something or maybe not.  Michel has had more experience with that but his experience is with PSE 15 more than 13.  He may not find anything wrong with 13.  
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Well, miracles happen. Both PSE & PE 13 installed in Windows 10 without a hitch. Although I didn't test it out w/editing, everything seemed normal.

But as I continued browsing the bottom effects tabs. I saw the music scores/sound effects tabs are inoperable - & nothing is there. Steve have you seen this as well, & is there a solution? I also noticed when it appeared you had successfully downloaded title effects requiring that, they mostly still seem inoperable? Those are the only issues I noted so far.
I was so elated to have even gotten this far, I stopped short of doing the couple indicated updates to both PSE & PE 13. One is just for Camera RAW, but the other is a large one "to fix bugs/issues". Am worried it might make things worse, or in your experiences w/older PE in WIN 10 might it help? Right now I'm just glad it's working at all!
I'm going to wait till tomorrow evening to even attempt the "Restore Catalog". First believe I need to put all the original photo/video files on the new laptop (same as the Mac) for the catalog to hopefully connect to them.
Michel, if you have any further to add before I try to copy the Mac catalog over to WIN 10 please by all means do! The "restore catalog" option seems
the safest & basically only option I see before using the manual steps Steve thoroughly described.
Thanks again,
Mark
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Steve Lehman

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I had mentioned I had not used the video so I don't know how to fix that.  Maybe Michel has that experience.   You could work with that on the other computer and use the editor. 

As for RAW, you can convert RAW from the native camera format to TIFF by using the DNG converter or if you have a Photoshop CS it should have a RAW converter built in.  When converting from RAW you also need to print the photo but it will throw an error message only to remind you to change the file from 16 bit (compressed) to 8 bit (uncompressed) otherwise a printer will not take the 16 bit compressed file from the camera.   Everything on a camera is compressed for its low memory storage.  For a DNG convert go here https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/adobe-dng-converter.html to download for Windows or Mac.  
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Mark Lucas

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Steve,
I don't recall you saying anything about not using the video, only that you indicated being very familiar with many Premiere versions(which is mainly for video)

Are you saying do video editing w/the Mac? I can't, that's the whole premise behind getting the new Windows laptop the Mac w/only 256mb of VRAM is way too slow.

I am quite familiar w/converting & editing raw, Tiff and jpeg photos. Not sure what you're mentioning that about or the DNG converting. All I said was one of the PE/PSE 13 updates listed is for camera RAW(mainly to edit newer camera models)
Thanks,
Mark
(Edited)
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Michel BRETECHER, Champion

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To get the best help for Premiere Elements, two resources:
- the pdf organizer manual: click on the corresponding link on the faq to download the manual.
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/992825

- Post in the dedicated Premiere Elements forum where you'll find the experts for video.

I don't use Macs nor Premiere Elements, but I do follow the above forum to find issues linked with the catalog or with backups.

The most outstanding difference is that video editing necessarily implies that you create and store/backup projects, whereas it is less common for photo editing (slideshows, books...)

The projects themselves group all necessary assets for your video and they are included in your catalogs, they keep everything in the backups and the restore. I think that even if Premiere includes other ways to save the project, the backup-restore is still the best method.

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Steve Lehman

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I don't think I mentioned that I do premiere other than install it with the editor because I knew it was a catalog storage thing, I mention to ask Michel.  Vids are hardly mentioned in this forum.