Lightroom: Ability to hide icons for crop & spot removal tools to give more space in other panels in Develop module

  • 2
  • Idea
  • Updated 7 years ago
  • (Edited)
It would be nice if one could hide the toolbar containing the icons for the crop tool, spot removal tool etc. The vertical space saved would become available for the development panels.

Sometimes having more than one panel in view is handy as a change in one panel may necessitate a change in another and vice versa. To support this every little bit of further space would help. I imagine many only use the keyboard shortcuts for the tools after a while and don't really need the toolbar anymore.
Photo of TK

TK

  • 531 Posts
  • 109 Reply Likes
  • confident

Posted 7 years ago

  • 2
Photo of Ian Lyons

Ian Lyons, Champion

  • 28 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Quote: I imagine many only use the keyboard shortcuts for the tools after a while and don't really need the toolbar anymore.

Actually, I've found the opposite to be the case. On each and every occasion I've asked user groups whether they use icons or keyboard shortcuts the majority indicate icons.

Also, deliberately hiding such an important aspect of the toolset from users would be the work of a fool.

If you're going to make a feature request then I suggest that you ensure that it isn't going to be at the detriment of other users.
Photo of Sean Phillips

Sean Phillips

  • 159 Posts
  • 44 Reply Likes
I agree that this will not be a popular idea but there's no need to denigrate the OP. Let the voting (or lack thereof) make this idea fade into the past. If people like it then it will rise to the top and require some response from Adobe...
Photo of TK

TK

  • 531 Posts
  • 109 Reply Likes
Ian, maybe it has escaped you that I am suggesting an "option" to hide the toolbar.

The toolbar will neither be hidden from users nor will users be forced to use the option.

Note that you can already use the "T" key to hide the image toolbar. While this can be confusing to some who may hide the image toolbar and then don't remember how to bring it back, obviously someone (smart) thought it would still be a good idea to make the image toolbar hidable.

I'm simply asking for the same option to be available for the toolbar.

I appreciate your sampling of user behaviour but you will still acknowledge that there are many users who predominantly use keyboard shortcuts, right?

Could you please explain to me why my idea would be "to the detriment of other users"?
Photo of john beardsworth

john beardsworth

  • 983 Posts
  • 212 Reply Likes
I'd be against this idea. Making it merely an option still means development time going into it. As well as agreeing with Ian, I'd point out that Solo mode already deals with the OP's concerns for vertical space.
Photo of TK

TK

  • 531 Posts
  • 109 Reply Likes
John, Solo mode does not deal with my concerns. Having several panels open at the same time is useful. More vertical space will help.

Things like that don't really cost much "development time". Where would you like the development time to be invested?
Photo of john beardsworth

john beardsworth

  • 983 Posts
  • 212 Reply Likes
Too long a list! But you can't get away with saying a feature request is an option and you don't have to use it.

If vertical space is really a problem, IMHO the better solution is smaller fonts, less space above and below text, smaller panel headers.
Photo of TK

TK

  • 531 Posts
  • 109 Reply Likes
What list is too long? Why are you saying I'm trying to get away with something? I really don't get this aggression against an idea. Just ignore it if you're not a fan.
Photo of Sean Phillips

Sean Phillips

  • 159 Posts
  • 44 Reply Likes
Development time is in huge demand and Adobe definitely have way too long a list of feature requests and bug fixes to devote time to items that might leave to confusion among the (newb) users and/or that simply aren't important to a large number of existing users.
Photo of john beardsworth

john beardsworth

  • 983 Posts
  • 212 Reply Likes
I'm sorry, but I do not accept your use of "aggression" here. I disagreed with your FR without being impolite. Ignoring something isn't a good way to indicate one's disagreement with it (and see Jeff's FAQ reply to my request for a Don't Like button http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh....

As for "what list?" I was following directly on from your "Where would you like the development time to be invested?"
Photo of TK

TK

  • 531 Posts
  • 109 Reply Likes
John, thanks for clarifying the "What list?" part.
Maybe my use of "aggression" was too harsh, but I don't get the negativity that my idea has attracted from Ian and you. I particularly didn't like to (indirectly) be called a "fool". You had nothing to do with this and I apologise if I have projected some of my disappointment on to you.

My idea wouldn't hurt anyone who is not using the proposed feature. It wouldn't stop LR's development. I believe it is better than reducing font size, etc.

I accept that the idea is not popular so I guess we should leave it at that.
Photo of TK

TK

  • 531 Posts
  • 109 Reply Likes
A parting thought: I don't think an idea should be commented on negatively because one thinks that development time would be better spent otherwise.

I feel that is an unfair way of championing ideas one personally feels are in the critical development path. I suggest that people should "like" the ideas they want to promote and "dislike" ideas that they feel would get in their way, but a feature which is completely neutral to anyone not using it shouldn't be voted down on the grounds of "stealing development time".

I argue that ideas should be judged on their merit and it is then up to the product manager / developers to decide whether the idea is worth spending development time on.

Voting against on the grounds of "stealing development time" is numerically indistinguishable from genuine criticism and could be used to achieve a double promotion of the ideas one believes to be worthy of development.
Photo of john beardsworth

john beardsworth

  • 982 Posts
  • 211 Reply Likes
I hope you're not accusing me of being cynical! ;)

Can you really say "it's only an option" and then deny those who disagreed with the FR the right to point out that it would still use up finite development resources?
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 378 Reply Likes
I'm neutral about it this idea. The toolbar seems to take up so little space, plus I think it looks kinda cool, and I mostly use the mouse for these tools. But, I wouldn't oppose the option either - as TK pointed out, the option won't hurt you if you don't use it...

PS - I really think it best to steer away from opposing ideas based on opportunity cost - let Adobe have that job...
Photo of john beardsworth

john beardsworth

  • 982 Posts
  • 211 Reply Likes
Ah, but "it's just an option and you don't have to use it" implies no opportunity cost. That's no defence when it's really your FR request that is being criticised.
Photo of TK

TK

  • 531 Posts
  • 109 Reply Likes
John, you cannot seriously criticise my FR as such since if it were implemented already it wouldn't hurt anyone who doesn't want to use it.

Yes, it would take some (not very much though) development time, but if we believe that the LR team has no capacity beyond and above dealing with the most pressing issues, we might as well not make any FR at all.

Naturally everyone has their own suggestions most dear to their heart so the argument "I'd like to see development time to be devoted to my suggestions" goes without saying, doesn't it? I therefore don't think it is necessary to point that out for each idea that isn't ours and that we are not particularly enthusiastic about.
Photo of TK

TK

  • 531 Posts
  • 109 Reply Likes
Rob, thanks for your comment. BTW, try the keyboard shortcuts sometime (R = crop, Q = spot removal, M = graduated filter, I think the red eye removal tool has no shortcut but one could be introduced for those who use it). With the keys, I have the tool selected before your mouse cursor has travelled all the way to the toolbar. :)
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 378 Reply Likes
Yeah, I use 'R' religiously / exclusively for crop tool, but for some reason have never got into the habit of using the others - it is the fastest way, no doubt. And, for those who've become accustomed to it, hiding the tool bar makes a lot of sense to me.
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 378 Reply Likes
In the free world, we can oppose whatever we like for whatever reason. But, I choose not to oppose ideas just because I would not personally find an advantage in them - I prefer to let Adobe have that role. To each their own... Every feature has an opportunity cost - that goes without saying...
Photo of john beardsworth

john beardsworth

  • 983 Posts
  • 212 Reply Likes
"John, you cannot seriously criticise my FR as such since if it were implemented already it wouldn't hurt anyone who doesn't want to use it."

But it isn't implemented, and the criticism is primarily of the FR itself. You can't then discount that disagreement by hiding behind "it would only be an option".