Lightroom 4: Moire when Sharpening and Profile Correction used together

  • 3
  • Problem
  • Updated 5 years ago
  • (Edited)
When Sharpening and Lens Correction / Profile Correction is used together it can introduce Moire in the images.

Happening in Lightroom 4 and ACR 6.6

Screenshot of the effect.
Photo of Olafur Haraldsson

Olafur Haraldsson

  • 21 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
  • frustrated

Posted 7 years ago

  • 3
Photo of Olafur Haraldsson

Olafur Haraldsson

  • 21 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
It is like sharpening is happening before the image lens correction is added to it creating this heavy moire.
Photo of jdv

jdv, Champion

  • 728 Posts
  • 56 Reply Likes
Can you provide a sample raw image?
Photo of Ruli-tu

Ruli-tu

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
I did experience the excactly same problem. In an image taken with Nikon D300 w/ Tokina 11-16 mm f/2.8. But I'm pretty sure that this phenomenon has nothing to do with the camera-system or the NEF-fil.

This does never happens when using unsharping- and noise removal tools in Adobe Photoshop CS 5.

This picture shows my result

Photo of Ruli-tu

Ruli-tu

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
John Verne: PS! It's not possible to upload NEF, TIF or DNG files here. I just tried.
Photo of jdv

jdv, Champion

  • 728 Posts
  • 56 Reply Likes
Use a sharing service like YouSendIt (http://www.yousendit.com/) or similar. See: http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-2...
Photo of Ruli-tu

Ruli-tu

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
You forgot to apply an receive-address...
Photo of Ruli-tu

Ruli-tu

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Here I did try to edit another photo with the same motiv. What I didn't do here was that I only used the adjustment brush for sharpening and not use the normal sharping-tool from the tools-palette.

The only moire-setting I kan find, is within the tools-palette for the adjustment brush.

Both my pictures got the horizon straightened up by using the Crop Overlay tool. I also used the "Lense corrections" for both".

Photo of Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață, Champion

  • 703 Posts
  • 38 Reply Likes
I can see this too, on a FIT and 1:4 on-screen preview in Develop module, when using a noisy image with distortion correction and crazy strong sharpening. I cannot see it in 1:1.

What are you sharpening setting, guys, by the way?

Thankfully, it seems to be affecting the on-screen preview in Develop only, not the actual exported data. Looks like the resampling algorithm in Develop cuts some corners to get id done faster.



Nikon D80 NEF
ISO 1600
No noise reduction
Sharpening (amount and detail) at max.
Shot with 18-70mm lens,
profile applied for 16mm fisheye.
1:4 zoom in Develop
Photo of Ruli-tu

Ruli-tu

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
In my case the moire was cause by the adjustment, and it did apply to the image, both in the full scale view and in the downsized JPG which i uploaded in my first image above.

I do not know why on earth I didn't manage to re-experience the moire in my second image above

In the first image i did both use global sharpening tool followed later in the process by the sharpening tool that belongs to the adjustment brush tool. Commonly for both images is also the use of noise reduction by adjusting global luminance.
Photo of Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață

Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață, Champion

  • 703 Posts
  • 38 Reply Likes
So if you export the image, do you still see the moire pattern? Can you upload it here to prove?
Photo of Eric Chan

Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

  • 620 Posts
  • 121 Reply Likes
What you are seeing here is image noise that is (1) becoming patterned due to the radially-symmetric warp used by the distortion correction, and (2) amplified by the sharpening. My suggestion is to (a) use more luminance noise reduction, and (b) use more Masking with the sharpening to avoid amplifying the noise.
Photo of jdv

jdv, Champion

  • 728 Posts
  • 56 Reply Likes
What happens if you hold down option/alt while playing with the sharpening sliders, such as masking? Is the moiré apparent then?
Photo of Olafur Haraldsson

Olafur Haraldsson

  • 21 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
When I export the image it does have the same problems. It is not only for the preview inside Lightroom.
Photo of Ruli-tu

Ruli-tu

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
I think I've just found what causes moire in my own pictures. It's the global sharpening tool when you slide the knob for detail to high (to much to the right). The higher value for Detail, the more moire you will get. The more moire you get, the larger Radius and/or more Luminance you will need in order to decrease/remove the moire-patterns,

I guess this same phenomenon also counts for the sharpening tool from the Adjustment Brush.
Photo of Eric Chan

Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

  • 620 Posts
  • 123 Reply Likes
No, sharpening doesn't cause moire. As I explained previously, the pattern is noise that is distorted by the lens correction. That noise is amplified by excessive sharpening. You can avoid the pattern by (1) using noise reduction, and (2) using masking when applying sharpening.

Eric
Photo of Ruli-tu

Ruli-tu

  • 7 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Eric Chan: - Yes! I just verified your explanation. By letting the moire be visible and then turn the lense correction off. Then the moire disappeard totally, no matter the grade of sharpening.

Very strange that Lightroom causes moire at all, wether it's caused by lense correction or sharpening. In Photoshop I have never had that problem at all.

Is it possible that something wrong has been done making the lense profile?

I have a lense profile for the same lense in Photoshop. So now I wonder if it's possible til use the same lense profile loader with Lightroom as with Photoshop...?
Photo of Olafur Haraldsson

Olafur Haraldsson

  • 21 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
But when you export the image from Ligthroom unsharpened and sharpen in Photoshop or even re-import it to Lightroom the moire will not be visible, wouldnt the best solution be for the internal sharpening to work as the last step in lightroom, as in it is the last thing applied to the image. As you really do and have done in the past for years and years that last step is always the sharpening.
Photo of jdv

jdv, Champion

  • 728 Posts
  • 56 Reply Likes
It depends. There is "input" and "output" sharpening. The latter is applied to the image as part of the processing pipeline, which is not a linear process.
Photo of Tamas Koncz

Tamas Koncz

  • 3 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hello,

I've got problems with 5DmkII RAW processing especially with high ISO images. Sometimes the files I exported shows a "ScreenDoor" effect, and its very irritating. The effect is more visible, when I downsize the exported picture in LR.

I attached the downsized export (first picture) and the downsized original JPG (which was inside the RAW). The original RAW's attached JPG show none of this artifact. It also can't be seen in the 2003 process, but the 2010 and 2012 it's visible.



Thank you for your support.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom: LR4 problem with 5DmkII RAW-s.
Photo of Olafur Haraldsson

Olafur Haraldsson

  • 21 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lens Correction problem still there since Lens Correction panel was introduced..


Lens Correction problems

I have reported this few times before and it is still there after updating to Lightroom 5, I get all kinds of strange lines in the image when applying lens profile.

I am very sure the reason for this is the application of lens profile is happening to early in the order of filters and sliders.

Lens correction should always be the last step, if there is a step that should happen afterwards it would be sharpening but nothing else.

Here is an example of this, makes the image completely useless...

http://content.screencast.com/users/o...

I reported a problem about this as soon as Lens Correction tab was introduced in Ligthroom and then few times again since then and nothing has happened yet, there seems to be no interest in fixing this.

Please please, can this be fixed, I do think this is a very easy fix by moving the lens correction as the last or the second last thing in the pipeline when exporting.

Photo of Olafur Haraldsson

Olafur Haraldsson

  • 21 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Thanks for merging, I could not find anywhere option where I could see my posts.

Are there any comments from Adobe about this issue?
Photo of Eric Chan

Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

  • 620 Posts
  • 123 Reply Likes
Yes, I can see the issue clearly in your image, but no, moving the order of the lens correction step (e.g., to the end) would not solve it. If you can post your raw file, that would provide our team a better opportunity to fix the underlying issue (by testing against a real-world, user image). Thanks.
Photo of Olafur Haraldsson

Olafur Haraldsson

  • 21 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
I have emailed your collage Jeff a link to RAW file along with lense profile. I hope to see a solution to this problem.