Photoshop: Mirror Paint/Symmetric/Seamless Tile Paint Function

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Photoshop could use a interactive Mirror Paint and Seamless edge/border painting function. Painter has had this feature for about 10 years now.
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dav3punk

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Posted 8 years ago

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Samy Halim

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Drawing with symmetry and radial.

Hi Photoshop team,
one of the coolest and smartest thing that Photoshop is missing is a tool that allows to draw with symmetry and radial mode, that exists on third party softwares as ArtRage and Sketchbook Pro.
Please think to add it to the the next update.
Thanx a lot.

Samy
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Neil Franks

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Tool for creating kaleidoscope effect in real time.

This would be very useful for designing geometric tattoos/designs, playing cards (you know how the royal cards are mirror but in a complex way), and various other works of art.

You would select the kaleidoscope tool (or whatever it would be called) and start out by placing your Origin. Then, you can push dials to change how many Sectors will radiate from your Origin(one sector to a billion sectors), and whether you want it to mirror every other sector or not.

The layer that you placed the Origin on doesn't have anything else on it. It only applies the effect to the layers beneath it.

Also, you can choose between two settings: if you want a certain Sector to be the repeated Sector (to be the one copied into every other sector) or if you want every Sector to be copied onto every other Sector.

For the first setting, you could start with a blank layer under the kaleidoscope layer. Then, whenever you draw within the chosen sector, the drawing is reproduced in the other sectors in real time. If you draw outside the chosen sector, no mark is visible (until you remove the kaleidoscope layer).

For the second, anything you draw anywhere on the blank layer would be copied into every other sector. Obviously, this would be pointless if you have a completely filled layer.. it would be very useful though to design geometric tattoos or playing cards where you need to make sure a line will continue seamlessly from sector to sector.

What do you think!
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Sergio Ballesteros

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Symmetrical Rules/Drawing & Real-time result of Smart-Object editing on original ....

How about if Adobe implements Real-time Symmetrical Drawing once you define an axis (or some axes)?

Also, it would be nice to have also a Real-time smart-object result shown while editing the smart-object, without having to hit Cmd+S to see the changes on the original file.
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Chris Cox

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If the future - please post one suggestion per topic.

And Smart Objects don't update in realtime for several reasons -- you choose when to do all the heavy work by saving the child document and updating the parent document. Trying to update them in realtime would be incredibly slow and ruin the usefulness of Smart Objects.
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Sergio Ballesteros

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Well, Affinity Designer can. You can check the video here:

https://affinity.serif.com/en-gb/desi...

Minute 1:40

So I think it's a matter of optimization and programming ;) And almost every computer nowadays can handle that processing.

What is reaaaaally slow is to keep saving again and again to see updates, making the workflow slower. If you can check changes in real-time, THAT would save a lot of time instead of the method of trial & error.
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Chris Cox

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That doesn't have to deal with even 1% of the document complexity that Photoshop works with. Yes, they can get away with things because they work with relatively small, simple images.

No, it is not a matter of optimization -- Photoshop is simply doing a lot more work than you realize when you update a smart object in the parent document.
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speedyblueskyfish

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The lack of mirroring is literally the only reason I use Krita, the free open source photoshop competitor (for painting). Although brushes are more intuitive in krita too, if PS had mirroring, I'd never really bother using a second program. For gamejams I don't go to photoshop at all because almost everything has to tile.

It would be exiting to see photoshop have live mirroring and tiling. Krita only supports it for the painting, but I would like it for when I do transforms to things too, or add gradients/etc. basically just a mirrored rendering of whatever it is I do on one half of the canvas. If PS can show it to us once, why not twice, or more?
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David W Bailey

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I like using krita too. Im just so familiar with photoshop I just wish they put that function in. I just dont get it.
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Fredconv

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Wow

this topic started 4 years ago.... for symmetry matters, I've already moved to clip paint studio (or others softs) since it allows me to save psd :) compatible with photoshop . but I m still using photoshop after the design phase :)

I hope it won't take another 4 years to include this realtime / radial / symmetry .... feature ...
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Jacob Johnson

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Judging from how long it took them to implement the rotate canvas tool, I doubt we will be seeing this feature added any time soon.  I have to mention that Corel Painter has had both tools for over 10 years or more.

Come on Adobe answer your users who need this feature!  I would gladly pay for a plugin to be developed if someone just wants to bust it out.  I can't tell you how long I've been using the freaking offset tool.
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lloyd none

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after years of getting these emails and being sick to see this NEVER be added to photoshop i finally reset my password (after the adobe hack) just so I could come here and unsubscribe from this topic,
Why can't I unsubscribe via email link without loggin in?

I'd also like to reach out to everyone who follows this topic like i did and let them know I have since stopped using Phothshop and now use a program called Manga studio (clip paint studio), Don't let the name fool you its actually a really good drawing program that has mirror painting and a LOT more features than photoshop (for digital drawing) Its paint tools are miles ahead of what photoshop tries to do Also take a look at Paint Tool SAI.

Its also very cheap and you can buy it and own it, NOT JUST RENT!

Show adobe that not adding basic art features to the industries most used drawing program is what will drive you away.

Good bye adobe, I won't miss you
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Simon Peter Heggie

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As a game artist and concept artist this would save me sooo much time and hassle. Just in terms of real time symmetry, a free program called 'Krita' has the ability to easily mirror paint in real time by dragging around the dividers. Why not photoshop, which has SOOO many concept artists wishing for better experimental painting solutions..
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Geoff Woods

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...Whats this? I noticed an 'UNDER CONSIDERATION' next to the title of this thread... could it be? Is the long wait almost over?!?!

I don't want to get too excited, but after 4 year or so I think Adobe may be answering our prayers, cries and in some peoples cases, out right rants.

Is there anyone there from Adobe willing to comment on an update?
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David W Bailey

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I am starting to wonder if the right people are seeing these threads.
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Sergio Ballesteros

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This would be a GREAT improvement, because although I use Corel A LOT, along with ArtRage and Clip Paint Studio, at the end of the day I always come back to Photoshop for final retouching. Having this feature would improve our workflow and it's not that hard to implement.

And since this has to do with guides and rulers, by the way, it's about time you fix the latency issue with Wacom Tablets in Photoshop when rulers are visible. Up till now, the workaround to draw a smooth line with no latency is to turn off the rulers while drawing, but this bug has been here since Photoshop CS5, so... yeah.
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Franck Louis-Marie

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Mirror painting /sketching.

okay one major feature missing : mirror painting , it exists in Corel painter , and why not in photoshop ? , I do concept design and  Art direction  and this will tremendously help . i feel that photoshop sometimes could do a better job regarding  digital painting , also its filter gallery  didn't evolve for decades ...I missing also the anisotropic filter ( i think this was the name back then ) it use to give a very good painterly look to photographs , way better than paint daub "artist filter " .... still waiting before I try out another software 
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Chris Cox

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Please submit one idea per topic.
And I think you mean the Oil Paint filter - which got rewritten for Photoshop CC 2015.
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xCyborg

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Come on Adobe it's 2016!!!
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David W Bailey

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Better tile creation. Like Krita.

Please try Krita and copy it's tile/wrapping mode. I really dislike having to do a trick to tile..... It is very confusing how you guys have not put this function in. Please upgrade and have a tile mode. Google Krita wrap mode(press w) when in krita
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David W Bailey

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some of these are from 4 years ago and they still have not done it...why...maybe they are not doing it on purpose, just to piss people off. not sure...adobe should check out Krita if they want to learn create a tile mode that works.
(Edited)
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Cen Lin

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We're asking for that for 5 years now!!! very disappointing really
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Cristen Gillespie

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I'm curious as to why you all think Photoshop proper needs a tiling function so badly. You've pointed to Krita, which looks interesting. It's free, it's open source, and it has PSD support. You can create 1000 tiles, convert them to patterns in PS, and now you've still got to organize and preview your .pat files better than Photoshop currently can. If Photoshop concentrated first on making it easier to work with our presets/assets, gave us the ability to preview our preset asset files before we load them, gave us the ability to keep them organized in separate sets, that would be a boon to everyone.

I was very underwhelmed by the Oil Paint filter, but Adobe did respond by putting it back in. So they obviously care about what enough people say they want that if the resources aren't too great to provide it, they will.

Unfortunately for me, I think it's Adobe's primary function to provide us with the best interface for working with our assets and presets possible, and to provide us with editing features that no one else provides at both a reasonable price and Photoshop compatibility. However, those features take a LOT of resources and time, so to me, adding a better tiling feature or the Oil Paint filter, easy as it may be to do, only takes away resources from them improving the workspace and adding more functions like Shake Reduction, improving a lighting effects filter, making Content Aware more aware—functions that aren't readily available out there for a reasonable price.

A bit of a rant, I know, but there's no "No" vote button, and apparently it IS under consideration, so I'm hoping Adobe reads this message, too.
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Jacob Johnson

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It's more valuable for the game and film industry which use PS heavily, and more valuable for digital texture painting.  It's very hard to convince someone to learn another application just to use one piece of it.  There is no argument against having this feature, it will speed up workflows 2x as fast.  And you cannot argue that there isn't a need for this, it's just facts man.

Adobe's Photoshop team has had a mind of their own for some time.  I doubt this feature will ever see the light of day - but just let us use this place for it's purpose, stop trying to rant about how this feature isn't worth their time because you waste everyone's time when you put your 2 cents in like that.
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David Nielsen

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To the joined frustration and joy of digital painters/illustrators/texture/concept artists Photoshop is also the far and away industry leader for digital painting combined with quick and easy image adjustment. There are programs that are beginning to close the gap, but Photoshop is still the leader for that segment.

I agree that Adobe should capitalize on the program's strengths. I'm totally with you on Presets. However, I've watched requests for things like a better stroke smoothing engine, this tiling request and even a basic fix for the broken smudge tool that happened 3 or 4 versions back all get more or less panned or backlogged to the point that I really have no clue whether Adobe cares about them or not.

Case in point, the request to be able to stroke a bezier path manually that we both took time to weigh in on was summarily ignored. Lazy Nezumi has since built an implementation for it.

I love Adobe products, but I do feel like the way they are managing this segment of users sometimes sends the message that they don't care.
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Robert Kraus

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"I'm curious as to why you all think Photoshop proper needs a tiling function so badly."

tl;dr: Photoshop is a key part to a multi billion dollar industry that wastes hours using the offset filter. Hours=Money. Multi Billion dollar industries like saving money.  

Speaking for the industry(video games) that I am a part of, Photoshop is a staple of the industry. The offset filter is probably the most commonly used tool when it comes to texture creation.

When creating a texture, we are now working with something called Physically Based Rendering or PBR for short. PBR Requires the use of multiple images to define things like color, Glossiness/Roughness and Metallic(These are the most common but there are more). Each of these images can require a large amount of layers(for organization). If one is to create a tileable PBR material, they could be spending countless hours using the offset filter on each one of the layers for each of the images. Here is an example of how the workflow goes: 

Create image in layer>Use offset>Use Clone/Healing>Use Offset>Next Layer

This may seem a small amount of work but now understand that this is one layer. There can be a massive amount of layers when working with PBR. Let's just say there are 5 layers each for Color, Metallic and Glossiness/Roughness. Also, let's imagine that the offset and Clone/healing process takes 5 minutes. 5 layers for 3 PBR textures(Color,Roughness,Metallic) at 5 minutes a piece is one hour fifteen minutes and that is not counting the time spent creating the image in each layer.   That's a sizeable chunk of work there for one texture.

Now here is how the workflow would look with a tiling/symmetry function:

Create image in layer> Next Layer.

Simple. No more offset, no more clone tool or healing.

Amazing how a few lines of code can speed things up.

The other option is for Adobe to completely ignore this and have a multi billion dollar industry find another(more efficient program) to do this with. These programs do exist and I see companies already switching over but I will not list them because that may be grounds to remove my post.
(Edited)
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Cristen Gillespie

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Thank you all for the more complete answers. It helps me to understand just what you're asking for. I agree the offset filter is pretty lame and not productive. I think the Oil Filter is pretty lame, but I know others swear by it.  '-} What I didn't know from reading the recent posts was that an entire industry needs something more immediate than a free 3rd party tool.

I don't know why Adobe got our hopes up for better painting tools inside PS, gave us some natural media, then dropped the ball. I do know that I'm still wasting a LOT of time trying to create, organize, load, and unload brushes, though. It is extremely difficult to be creative when searching for your tools, and I have no doubt the same is true when you're fighting daily with a feature as lame as the Offset filter and nothing else substitutes well for it.

And despite the natural media, there is no good way to clone as there is in Painter, so Adobe's no Painter-killer.  When Adobe drops the ball on our workspace functions, we all do suffer. When it did so much to fix to the Layers panel, we all could be more productive, and naturally I'd like to see more of that.

But if there's an entire industry that doesn't have an excellent substitute for a function they use all the time, I agree that that's when Adobe should step in and provide it. I try to keep my blood pressure down, though. Real bugs raise it high enough. Lack of features and I will keep asking. I'll pester. I'll nag. I've even gotten a couple of things I asked for. It took a few years, but I got them.

But it's a business, not a friend.  Individuals in the business care, however, and while threatening to take your business elsewhere works, I think the caring individuals in the corporation probably don't like to hear they just don't care.

And since it's been so well explained to me why there's a need for this feature, you've now got my vote. For a corporation, it IS all a numbers game.<G>
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Timm

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We might as well give up. Adobe and Photoshop are so industry standard that it allows them the wiggle room and laziness to not make any real changes to their program for years. They've switched to a subscription service because they understand that they arn't making enough changes to the program that people want to upgrade to the newest version like in the old days (when PS had a max of 3 undos)

It is ridiculous that Photoshop does not have this function yet.
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Cristen Gillespie

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> They've switched to a subscription service because they understand that they arn't making enough changes to the program that people want to upgrade>

Maybe so. More likely to try to make up, financially, for being so pervasively used illegally. But I don't think we give up asking for what we want. If painting is to go anywhere inside PS, then it needs to have a system for cloning from photos or other sources that's as easy as it is in Painter. And they've always had a need for seamless tiling for textures and patterns, as well as a way to do symmetry painting, I fully agree.

I think part of the problem for us PS users stems from having an overall direction from Adobe, not the PS team itself, that may be the result of their marketing research into what the folks want in general, but leaves a lot of our long-standing wishes for Photoshop proper going nowhere.

Those of us who were here even before the whole Creative Suite, let alone Creative Cloud, can remember that we knew when we bought Photoshop that it was a professional application and that we were going to have to slog through it learning how to use it. No pandering to beginners, period. But apparently the top brass and their marketing research has shown that people would love to use PS if only it were easier. So there's been a big push to make some features, like the New Document dialog, easier for beginners, although I'm not sure how it is easier, but apparently icons and templates do make it easier for them. 

My first Adobe software was PageMaker and I did use some templates gladly,  so they could be right. In the process of making it easier, I think they made it more difficult for advanced users, and that's something they need to watch out for. The LR team did that with their Import dialog that they ended up abandoning, because thinking only of beginners and believing that whatever they do will also work for advanced users, can quickly become a failed concept.

There's also been a strong move to support the Cloud part of Creative Cloud, and features that take advantage of being able to push to and pull from the Cloud have taken a fair bit of each team's resources to implement. I think that also comes from marketing, but computing with the Cloud as the intermediary is still fairly new, especially coming up with those features, such as CC Libraries, which  benefit more than the crowd that does all their publishing on Instagram.

Trying to do what mobile apps were doing to interest more people, and at the same time, benefiting professional desktop customers, I doubt is an easy proposition. I know some professionals who absolutely love all the mobile apps. I know many more who find CC Libraries a real benefit, and would like to see them continue to make them more powerful and better organized. So I think there again, marketing and the Adobe boardroom got some of this right.

What they haven't done, at least in our current releases, is advance Photoshop's workspace/asset/preset organization, its painting, or much at all with image editing, although their attempt to get S&M right shows they do mean to. S&M just appears to be a more difficult issue than they anticipated. They have advanced Type features, although they still have a long way to go. They've improved artboards, which benefits web designers (and myself, actually), although they've had some trouble getting their web-related export features to work flawlessly and also have all the function of SFW. I'm sure I could go on. IMO, their Layers panel functions are the best of any, and they are expanding on the promise of the Properties panel, if slowly.

I believe it's a good idea to try to remember these things for two reasons— if we remember what they have done, even when it isn't what each of us individually can incorporate in our own workflows, we remember that some features are getting much better, much more useful — and more importantly, we don't say we might as well give up. Not if we're going to keep using the software. Give up if you think Affinity Photo will do everything you need at a lower cost and better, but otherwise, keep hounding them. They do read this stuff and try to come up with a list of priorities that will benefit most of their customers some of the time.

I want Adobe to double Photoshop's team, but then I also think they should triple Illustrator's, and I'm sure the Premiere Pro folk would say the same.<G> It's not gonna happen. But if we say to each other "give up," it's never going to happen. We need the numbers on our side. We need the votes to move it into a slot that hopefully will make it a feature within this decade. In the meantime for painting, a lot of people still have Painter, and it still exports PSD files. And if you want to read what people think about Painter with each release, they have a forum for that. It's not pretty, I can tell you, and it's anything but cheap.
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yo

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I would need realtime symmetry, exactly like in Sketchbook pro. Add also radial symmetry with several angles. Can't believe that this feature was not implemented all these years....
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Matei Stefan

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I would like to support the request for mirror drawing to be introduced.
:)
I am a beginner, and I still need symetry and anti-symetry when working with the Pen tool / anchors.

It could be done around a point, a line, a shape, or an imaginary plane (where the plane can be set, for an instance, at 50 degrees to right, and 15 degrees lifted in the back). I could work with one line, and the same line could be generated by Photoshop on the oher side of the virtual plane, as if mirrored.

I would also find it very useful to move / transform a selection, or modify a smart object's anchor positions WITHOUT having the bordering and the anchors in view (because they don't let me SEE  exactly what I'm doing).

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David Wald

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after years of waiting and getting these fundamental features for photoshop blocked, because some people in photoshop think "there is no big demand for this", i have to say:

Forget it guys.

Photoshop has missed the route for digital painters completely.
Everybody take a look at what Clip Paint Studio is doing, it is like a photoshop for digital painters and has ALL the features we have been longing for so much.

good bye photoshop!
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Cristen Gillespie

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> after years of waiting and getting these fundamental features for photoshop blocked, because some people in photoshop think "there is no big demand for this", i have to say:
Forget it guys.>

Well. . . that's what voting is for—if people bother to come here to vote, it must be important to a lot more who don't even know this site exists. I'm pretty sure Adobe figures it that way—every vote here does count, even if it doesn't mean we get what we want on our preferred timeline. Heck, that's pretty much a given.<G>

> Clip Paint Studio>

I've been using Corel Painter almost as long as I've been using Photoshop. But I am in Photoshop for the powerful image editing and compositing features it has, so I also like to use their brushes. I especially enjoy using dynamic brushes in PS. Clip Studio Paint (I just looked it up—forgot the name but I've looked at the site before) is for a type of illustration I'm not interested in. If I were, if I did Manga or an illustrative art form similar to that, and didn't use Photoshop for a lot of other reasons, I could perhaps switch—or for about the same price, just keep on using Corel Painter (upgrade pricing) for a lot of different painterly styles.

But I'd prefer to keep the pressure on Photoshop to expand their capabilities, especially since I'm going to be using it anyway, like many of its brushes features, and if it won't suit for everything, other apps aren't as suitable for ways I do use Photoshop's brushes. 

I'd very much like symmetry when drawing/painting in PS. I can draw in AI with symmetry using Astute Graphics software, and enjoy doing so, but of course, that's vector and has to be converted in PS in order to use PS brushes with it. I also would like to see something better in the way of clone painting, but so far, only Painter is greatly improving on that.

That I can go to other programs to solve problems isn't going to make me give up on getting Photoshop to incorporate it IF I think it's a good match for Photoshop's own existing feature set, though.
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Official Response
Mirror/Symmetry painting is now supported in Photoshop CC. See: https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/whats-new.html
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David W Bailey

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That's cool. I love Kritas paint continuation for painting. Basically as you paint off canvas it wraps to the other side in a continua motion. Allowing the ability to create tiles
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Leaving topic open. Seamless tiles is under consideration.
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David W Bailey

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When Photoshop asks me to rate and out suggestions I out that every time.
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John Costello

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Need this! You'll see a massive increase in game artists coming back to photoshop exclusively to use this!
(Edited)
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Andreas Föhl

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled PHOTOSHOP - A pattern-preview or tile-preview to create seamless patterns.

A pattern-preview or tile-preview to create seamless patterns or tiles would be cool for Webdesigns and Game-Artwork. You might work on your tile and watch it changing in an 3x3 field.
Now possible with linked smart-Objects?
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Josh Sacco

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This feature would be so beneficial with the nitty-gritty and seams in game art.