Photoshop: Mirror Paint/Symmetric/Seamless Tile Paint Function

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Photoshop could use a interactive Mirror Paint and Seamless edge/border painting function. Painter has had this feature for about 10 years now.
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dav3punk

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Posted 7 years ago

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PECourtejoie, Champion

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Hello!
The closest thing to mirror paint is the following option in the clone source panel:
set the W: value to -100%
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dav3punk

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except this has nothing to do with what we are talking about, and not what we are asking for. :P
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dav3punk

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Right. That means PS still doesn't have that funtionality after all these years. Same with a seamless time paint feature. People are still
Using the offset filter. Archaic. These are 2 very simple concepts that many users would be very happy to see. And say "finally!" ;)
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Andrew Love

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Another idea I've been waiting for that is similar to some of the other ideas below (but I didn't see it explicitly stated) is kind of a duel purpose option. Someone may have said it but it's worth restating I think. There should be a simple setting to chose that allows to set the entire document to "wrap around mode" which would allow you to both move an object past the edge and it comes out on the other side and/or corners (perfect for tiling) and also works for drawing tools like the brush, pencil, paths etc. That would be an extremely simple solution for making custom tiled images. Likewise being able to set a pattern overlay should have a simple button that sets it to match up at edges evenly, and it would lock the scale settings to preset intervals that would only include scales where they would match up at the edges.

I've been designing fabric prints for a client and I'm getting really tired of having to rely on multiple layers and guides to force this effect.

I do also love the idea of a mirrored drawing option, or at least one that actually works in real time other than the object oriented "work around" that's floating around online. It isn't very often that I need a perfectly symmetrical drawing but I would still consider it as being a necessary option for the kind of programs adobe is offering.
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lloyd none

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Hello!

I have an idea for a feature for Photoshop.

Photoshop is the goto program for creating Computer game textures.
One thing that done daily is creating tillable textures,

This often means flipping back and forth with the offset filter,
sorting out the seam with the clone stamp, copying bits of the image about and painting sections.

This back and forth is quite time consuming but its something we all have to deal with.

The idea is having an option to make a layer repeat over the edges of the document, so when you paint / draw something over the edge on that layer, it would appear on the other side too.

You could also move layers over the edge and they'd duplicate over the other side for when you copy parts of an images about.

Heres a mock-up of the idea, You can see the edgeless button at the top of the layers panel. the reason i've suggested it just being something that works on a per layer basis is to not crash Photoshop with heavy documents.

Amazing idea!

Lots of games company's have licenses for Photoshop and this is something that could save them lot of hours!

Its an idea I posted over at Polycount and straight away people wanted it, the demand is there its just getting the idea out to people.

-lloyd

Here's another picture of it when you make the base brick layer edgeless, this is where you could be cloning and sorting seams, i posted the other picture as this ones a bit hard on the eyes.

Amazing idea!

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Edgeless Document Idea.
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Felipe Oliveira Gall

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YES, this is EXACTLY how a tile wrapping tool should behave. Two thumbs up!
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Luddens Desir

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Hey, yeah. I want tiling images, or document sizes that can be manipulated easier. It would be a great idea. Please do.
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m l

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sooo many people want this
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David W Bailey

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how come they dont listen, its beyond me...check out krita
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J Schewe

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I would like to suggest that there be a tile editor mode:

In this mode, the canvas still has fixed size, but the image infinitely wraps. The view shows the canvas in the center, but also shows copies placed on each side of the canvas, and on each side of those images, etc. until the image leaves the screen.

When zoomed in, it is possible that the wrap would not be visible. Yet when zoomed in at the edges, a certain percent of the surrounding tiles should be visible rather than only allowing the editor to pan to the corner.

When editing takes place outside of the canvas, the result is modification in the corresponding spot on the canvas. For example, a brush that lays over an intersection of the tiles would edit each of the corners. Also layer styles won't end at the edge of the canvas, they would continue as if the image was tiled on every side of the canvas.

Here is an example drawing space depicting my suggestion. The blue rectangle represents the canvas bounds and the pencil is the currently active tool.


This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Tile Editor Mode.
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lloyd none

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Its a shame my idea got merged into here, but we all seem to be wanting the same thing.

I hope people see this!
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Chris Cox

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Having the ideas merged makes it easier to count the people supporting it, keep the conversations in one area, and combine interesting variations in the requests. We've heard this request from a variety of sources, but there never seems to be a large number of people supporting it - so product management always has higher priorities.

BTW - you do have a tiling paint feature in Photoshop Extended using the 3D functionality.
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lloyd none

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Yeah that feature is still too limiting and not what were looking for.

Thanks for the reply. hopefully we can get more votes up in here.
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m faceman

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This really does need to be a feature in Photoshop. A tiling tool would benefit anyone in the games industry. And that is a huge user base. I work at a small company and we still have ~25 copies of Photoshop. I have to tiles textures, complex ones, every day. This tool would allow me to make stuff at a much faster pace.

Lloyd has the right idea on this one!

Chris Cox: This is a very big issue for the 3D industry. I know a lot of people that would use the tool. Honestly I think the reason no one is supporting it is no one knows about the feature request section at all.
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Chris Cox

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Then guide more of them this way. (just make sure to search for existing requests before adding duplicates)
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lloyd none

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Its been great to see people come here and voice there views on this,

in the past 24 hours its shot up 20ish votes and this is only from telling one game art forum. [quite a few of them come from company's who have multiple licenses all of whom would benefit from this]

as you can see this is wanted by a lot of people, its just getting it out for them to see.

I can't really go out and show this to everybody who wants it, but to get such great feedback from one forum must ring bells with you.

Please Adobe, see this. ask around.

I also spoke to somebody in VFX and this is something that they do on a daily basis [tile textures] so its not just the game art market.

Also this Photoshop Forum includes Lightroom questions/issues/requests.
without them this feature request would be on the front page.
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Chris Cox

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We have heard this request before, we just need to hear it from a larger group, and get details from other users about what they specifically need.
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Tod Orbach

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Well of course we want this.
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James O'Hare

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There are lots of us that want this feature, just that signing up just to tick a little +1 button with no guarantee of a result sounds a lot more effort than it's worth.

Also, I didn't know this place existed until Lloyd pushed us here.
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lloyd none

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Thanks for coming James!
Yeah it does suck but the sign up wasn't as bad as I was expecting.
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Valdemar Nyhlén

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Basically this would shave off about 30-40% of the time spent on creating tillable textures. Especially when there's allot of details that needs to be tossed around. You can't work non-destuctebly at the moment as you always need to merge layers down to tile them correctly. It's also a huge hustle managing all the layers every time you want stuff to tile together.

Even though there's not that many voting for this, i can't say ONE texturer/artist that would explode out of relief and happiness for a function like this. Both game-art and 3D community are HUGE. We are a very big consumer of photoshop. Don't foreget us please! :)

This is, from a 3d artist's point of view, THE biggest feature that's currently not in photoshop.

As a P.S, i'm coming from the gameart forum Polycount and when Iloyd posted his mocup image the board literary exploded when interest and joy (they, we, thought that he'd actually scripted it). http://www.polycount.com/forum/showpo...

Please, PLEASE give us 3D dudes some love! Photoshop is such a powerful and important tool for us, make it THE tool for us!
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Chris Cox

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Thanks - that's the kind of details we need to convince product managers.
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Matt Lichy

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Yes, I agree with everyone on here, I too would love to see this feature.

Also, as Valdemar said, Polycount has very quickly taken on this idea and are all for it.

I feel these user votes are one of the most important thing Adobe can do to add the proper features. Autodesk has started doing this for 3DS Max, and it definitely helped make 2012 its best version yet because of it.
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Alistair Braz

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Agree with everyone on here. It was crazy when lloyd posted this on Polycount and people were jumping all over the idea.
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dav3punk

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agreed. Its kinda ridiculous that Photoshop does not have this feature. I have used paint programs from 1985 that have a mirror/seamless tile paint feature. Painter has also had this feature for years as well. Adobe should review other software packages and features that are successful. Also 3D is NOT Adobes strong point.
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Luigi Kavijian

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Excuse me while I say, DO WANT!
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James O'Hare

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Ideally, I'd like to be able to draw a border with a direction and another border with a direction.

So painting across one of them would paint over into the next. And would scale the brush according to the scale ratio of the borders.

So a painting a seamless tiling texture would essentially be two sets of these - automatically placed at the edges of the image.
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Tod Orbach

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The ability to have 8 instances of the image tiling (with the canvass rotation feature still working) would be a tool every game texture illustrator would install instantly.

The tool must also include "mirror" feature for being able to symmetrically paint a face. Infact if you could define a "work area" perhaps using slices that would be perfect since you could work on a section of a 512 image that has 1/2 of a face
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Chris Cox

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So toroidal wraparound is the most important case to you?
Don't many games also used reflective wrapping (as when using a quarter of a texture), and multiple angle reflective mapping (as when using a sixth or eighth of a "round" texture)?
And sheared mappings (like bricks)?
What about other planar mappings (like quilt patterns you found in the Terrazo plug-in)?
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m faceman

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Yes toroidal wrapping is the most common style of texture tiling. And what many people use.

In game engines you normally can set which wrapping style you want, normal (which is toroidal) and mirrored. Mirrored meaning the texture repeats a-b then b-a. (sorry for the terrible example i am a lowly artist not good with the maths)

after quickly googling the terrazo plugin i have never had the need to paint that type of tile.

i guess what everyone is looking for is a very quick way to make edits to a texture like this

http://www.polygonblog.com/wp-content... (sorry if linking to this texture breaks some forum rules!)

using multiple layers, all of their brushes, ect. For an artist to make this tile currently, they have to use the offset filter and offset each of the layers they are using. This may sound like a simple thing but it become VERY tedious. A 3dpaint program Zbrush has a similar thing already which is incredibly helpful, and i think everyone wants that but in 2d and in Photoshop. Because honestly the less i have to bounce back and forth between all the programs i use to create content, count 'em 5, the better.

Hope this makes sense!

One last thing just to second what everyone else is saying. When this dropped on polycount, this worked everyone into a frenzy. This tool is definitely at the top of my have wanted for years list.
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Tod Orbach

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For all the "platforms" (output/efficiency types)

mobile, online, console, desktop, sprites for blitmaps, sequences of 12 or 30 frames to make rippling water, a single 512 with a face in only 1/4 of the image...

there is no standard.

The power of having a low level instancing feature to create "clones" of what we see seamless is the key.
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Chris Cox

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Don't worry about the math - that's the part we're good at.
But the more information we have about what you need (and who all needs it) - the better solution we can come up with, and the easier it is to get approval from managers.
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Matt Lichy

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I'd think having options like, tiling using the document bounds, > 512 < 0 for example, or using guidelines possibly for bounds, or another type of helper object, so u could specify a location if u wanted and work from there.
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Callum Roberts

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I have to say that this sort of feature in Photoshop is something that the computer graphics industry has been clamouring for, for years!

Industry professionals spend a LOT of time not only creating textures, but creatively finding ways to best have them tile using the Offset and Clone Stamp tools. As m faceman posted, this method takes a lot of time for multiple layers that could be better used concentrating on other aspects.
Just thinking about the time and money that would be saved if that problem was solved is mind-boggling!

The first image that Lloyd posted up look like a very user-friendly method to implement it into the UI too.
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Valdemar Nyhlén

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So following on the mockup of Iloyd I thought some about tools like clone stamp and the healing brushes/patch tool. This is the tools you (I) mainly use when i tile a photo sourced texture. To have these tools not to have any boundaries would be very intuitive and useful.
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lloyd none

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Hey Valdenmar, Yeah the clone and healing brush's are a must for this tiling workflow!

In your mock-up you'd also need it in the corners too, I'm not trying to pick at what you've put, I just don't want them considering this and only half-implementing what we need.

Thanks for making another visual aid!
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Tod Orbach

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agreed, 3x3 and possibly open enough to zoom out to a 5x5 so we can check for too much repetition in grass or rock tiles.

Should also work on timeline or be able to preview a sequence via a temporary render/"playblast" so we can see an FX sequence of tiling water or lava flowing.
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Valdemar Nyhlén

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Yeah, you'r right.. I had 3*3 in thought at first. Don't know why i didn't put it in..
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Valdemar Nyhlén

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This is what i meant from the start :)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1415501/Polyc...
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J Schewe

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Obviously, the whole point of having this wrap is to allow Tools to be used seamlessly from one side of the image to the other... but also we need to consider the use of Layer Styles, Filters and Effects that typically stop at the borders. They need to perform continuously and seamlessly across the image boundary as well.
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dav3punk

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exactly. Adobe product "managers" should look at other apps. Painter does this function really well. Seamless tiling should be a "mode" that you paint in. All the tools work in this mode and allows you to wrap paint, and maybe even offset/scale the canvas in real time. Filters would probably have to be applied as smart filters though.
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RocketSurgery

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Ive been wondering where this feature is since photoshop 7
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Antti S

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I totally agree with people here, Photoshop needs this functionality. I work as a game developer and the ability to easily create seamless textures would save me countless hours weekly and monthly.
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daniel dam

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real time Symmetry.
Photoshop really need Symmetry, a lot of other programs have this!

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Symmetry.
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Tod Orbach

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radial (doing wheels) as well

This is why the feature should probably be as low level as possible with perhaps 2 quick templates

example
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m faceman

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This is a much needed feature in Photoshop. If this feature does get pushed through (fingers crossed) please please please consult with someone from the games industry. Everyone here has the right idea but if this tool gets implemented poorly it would be more of a hassle than a help. That said this would be one of the biggest breakthroughs in Photoshop sense layers.
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dav3punk

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There are some very basic features that every other paint package has had for 15+ years. And even after disussing them in forums for years, Adobe still wont implent them no matter what the demand. Very confused, but reinforces that Photoshop team isnt interested in its user base.
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Chris Cox

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Or that the Photoshop team has a lot of requests from a lot of different users, and hasn't had a chance to address this one yet. Everybody has a feature that they want, but we can't do them all at once.
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Jeff Adington

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omg adobe.  this is so simple. just give me a setting to make my brush pop to the other side of the canvas when I brush off of the other side.  so many drawing programs had this years ago. why don't you get it?
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xCyborg

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I can't believe we're in 2016 and still nothing!!! At least tell us if you plan this this century or not
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Andrew Avvakoumides

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Adding my voice to this. My comment is that as a concept artist, I have a few choices to make mirrored silhouettes. One is to use Corel Painter, which I really don't like. The second is to use mirrored smart objects and paint inside the smart object, saving to update the whole silhouette which is very tedious and not a very fluid process. Adobe, add a Mirror Brush as a sub tool of the Brush Tools and feel the love. Add a seamless function to paint over the edges of the canvas and feel more love.
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lloyd none

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