Lightroom: Import Second Copy should be a true second copy

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I would like the Import process to be able to create two copies of my imported original files, with matching filenames/formats and folder structures, on two separate disks. Then in the case of disk failure, I could just rename the backup disk to the name of the primary, or point Lightroom to the backup instead of the primary, and I'd be up and running again in no time.

I cannot use the Second Copy function at Import time because the second copy is not organized by date. I have to do this manually.

For me, the current Second Copy functionality is not useful in any way. I am requesting new functionality, where the second copy happens after renaming, DNG conversion, and organization into folders, so that the second copy is identical to the main copy in every way except the path to the parent folder.

I'm sure many will suggest that you need backup software anyway and so this shouldn't be Lightroom's job, but I disagree -- in my case, these date-organized folders of originals are truly read-only. I don't convert to DNG, I don't write out XMP sidecars, and in fact I don't delete originals after Import, so these folders are truly never written to again after Import. If I could just create a second copy at Import time, my backup system would never need to be involved and I could mark my disks or folders as read-only immediately after Import.

(It would be extra-cool if Lightroom would set the file and folder permissions to read-only itself!)
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Mark Sirota

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Posted 7 years ago

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Photographe

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I like this idea with one modification: When choosing to convert to DNG on import, I like the fact that the second copy is RAW, but think it should have the same name (other than the extension) and the same folder structure as the first copy.
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Rob Cole

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Mark - I take it you never rearrange folders or rename files after import processing.

Personally, I would prefer a (Lr) scheme to simply restore photos from a backup. Then if that disk goes bad, just restore from the backup. That way, even if a person restructures or renames after importing, there is no problem.

As it stands, Lightroom supports making photo backups, but not restoring them, which seems to be the missing piece.

I would prefer to see Lightroom support backup and restoral completely - i.e. the ability to restore a catalog and/or presets and/or preferences, and/or photos... - no data left behind...

My motto: backup without restore is a job half done. And since Lightroom only supports backup of half the critical data, its more like a job 1/4 done.

Mark - I think you are in a minority with how you would want this. Another solution to your problem (wanting a mirror image of your photos so no copying to restore) would be just to do a folder-sync after import. Scooter Software's Beyond Compare would allow you to define a job to sync your photo folder tree with a secondary. Perhaps if Lightroom allowed Import Actions (to run post-Import, like they have now for post-Export), that would be all you need...

If I did not already have the ability to program any post-Import actions I may want (since I use 'RC Importer' plugin (which supports photo backup restoral)), I would request an Import Action feature, so I could run whatever kinda thing I wanted upon import...
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john beardsworth

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"As it stands, Lightroom supports making photo backups, but not restoring them, which seems to be the missing piece."

Agreed. While I agree with the original request for exact copies, it is missing this important point. For instance, the second backup becomes next-to-useless if a user renames files in Lightroom (and after deleting duds), but then loses those files and needs to rely on the second backup.

Making a restore function - or Find Missing Files - match metadata as well as simple filenames would be a big step forward.

John
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Anthony Ralph

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What I use/used in Bridge import was...

!. First copy convert to DNG, place in specified folder, having changed the file name - but incorporated the original file number in the name for identification with original.

2. Second copy left as RAW and placed in different folder, without changing the name.

That is what I would like to do in Lightroom.

Anthony.
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Rob Cole

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That is how Lightroom works now, *except* the second copy has also been renamed - but why would you not want the second copy to have the same base name as the first? I mean, I also like having the original file number in the name, just in case I had to recover from card. But as long as you have the file-number in the name, isn't it preferable to have the backup be named with the same base as the photo its backing up? Is it just so that Lightroom is working the same as Bridge, for consistency?

UPDATE: Another difference is that the 2nd copy is always put in a subfolder - is that the other part that you could do without?
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Anthony Ralph

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I guess what I am asking for is the freedom to name/rename folders and files howsoever I want, rather than being required to accept what Lightroom wants. And that includes a reluctance to accept the need for mandatory sub-folders.

Personally, I can handle backups as part of a computer-wide régime.

Anthony.
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Rob Cole

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Fair enough.
R
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Photographe

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I wouldn't mind the ability to do automatic restores, but that is a more complicated change (which can be implemented in tandem with Mark's suggestion). What Mark is asking for is fairly simple to implement, and I believe is the way that the independent file ingestors like Image Ingester operate. In my workflow, I create three identical copies of my photos at the outset and then there is no need for future backups because ~all data is handled by the catalogue

(Actually, to refine that slightly (i) one archive copy is RAW and two are DNG, (ii) I do push down xmp data to the primary DNG and back that up to the second DNG from time to time, but it's not crucial, (iii) I do backup TIFFs created by/for Photoshop. But the general idea still holds. I don't change file names or folder structure because LR does not handle that well. Files that I would want to delete are given 0 stars and put in a special collection so if I really want to delete them in the future I could, but I don't think I'd have an easy way of deleting the RAW versions of them. So I don't mind LR restoring files intelligently, but I see that as a huge understaking.)
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Rob Cole

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I'm sure this feature would be good for some, but I'm *guessing* a minority, and I'm guessing backup-restoral is likely to come first, or instead. Which is why if I were you I'd start thinking about plan B too. If Lr had an import action, this copy syncing could easily be done using the import action, and since so many other niche post-import actions could be done as well, it seems more likely it might be implemented. - just guessing... I mean, yes: it would be simple enough to make 2nd or 3rd copies somewhere, but if stuff is deleted or moved - then the backups no longer match the catalog, which means you have a sortof half-baked solution or you need to add the match-up and sync logic - now its not so simple... On the other hand, the present backup solution is only 1/4 baked, so who knows...
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A TJ

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I'd be happy with just the ability to turn off the useless (to me anyway) "Imported on..." folder. If the only way to get this is to have the second copy be a duplicate of the primary folder structure, I could live with that. I can't live with the "Imported on..." folder and so use Nikon Transfer to copy the files and make the second copy.

I have no need for Lightroom to be my backup/restore process. I already have that in hand. I just simply want to be able to create a second copy of the imported files and place them where I want them.
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Emma DW

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I got very much into that habit with Nikon's transfer software - and then it didn't work when I had a Canon Powershot that took Canon Raw files. It could cope with .jpg from non Nikon cameras, but not other raw (fair enough, really!)

So, I'd like the ability to have a mirrored structure, as well as the imported on folder. Then, each can choose.
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A TJ

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I'm a belt an braces kind of guy and always make a second copy of images when I transfer them from memory card to my computer. The primary copy goes to main image store on an external HDD and the second copy goes to the internal drive on my MacBook Pro.

The reason I use and external HDD for my primary copy is the sheer volume of images. The second copy goes to the internal HDD as protection against drive failure. On a regular basis the images from the internal HDD are transferred to a Linux server and on a monthly basis they are backed up to DVD. All the images for one camera for one month are stored in the same folder - e.g. D300/201105 for images from the D300 in May 2011. At the end of May, all the images in 201105 will get backed up to DVD.

At the moment I use Nikon Transfer to transfer the images from memory card to HDD as it allows me to put the second copy where I want it and doesn't create an extra folder called "Imported on...". I would like to use Lightroom for the transfer and import but don't want the extra folder created. As can be seen from by backup workflow, I get no value from the "Imported on..." folder.

I would like to have an option to disable the creation of the "Imported on..." folder.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom: Allow prevention of creation of "Imported on..." folder when making a second copy on import.
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Photographe

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(1) It always takes me a while to navigate to the right folder when choosing the destination of my files. I wish there were a way to make this easier.

(2) Second Copy always creates an extra folder called "Imported on Saturday, April 16, 2011". This forces me to navigate to the folder in Windows Explorer to delete it. I would rather than have to do this.

(3) Creating the folder for the second copy is somewhat confusing. I often end up with a folder called "New Folder". Why not do it the same way as the First Copy (i.e. a Checkbox)

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom: Import: Second Copy Folders difficult to create.
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marcos souza

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I would like to organize the folders tree at backup disk exactly as the main folders tree, becouse it could facilitate restore the catalog and files, if necessary. And maybe add a third copy.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Liughtroom: Make additional copies during Import‎.
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Rob Cole

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You can do this now with TreeSyncPublisher.
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Steve

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Please can you put in an option to stop LR4.2 creating a folder each day in the import copy folder? The main import folder has an option to placee all imported files into a single folder, which is great, but this doesn't apply to the second copy folder.
I use this to automatically make a copy of each original image as it is imported. Having the second copy in a sub-folder means that I can't easily check which imports haven't been copied (for some reason LR often fails to make the second copy). I therefore move all of the files in the 'imported on november 6' folder into its parent, it is a bit boring after the tenth time, let alone the 30th, 40th etc.
Please apply all options set for the original folder to the second one, or tell me how to obtain a more permanent list of the copies that failed.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom: Apply import settings to second copy.
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Bryn Forbes

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from a merged topic

Bryn Forbes 8 months ago
If the two drives matched in folder structure as the original poster asked, when backing up all I have to do is sync the catalog and the xmp files which is a very small amount of data (I have the option to write metadata in to jpeg, tiff and dng files turned off so the original files are unchanged and I can reverify this to make sure there are no corrupted files)
I know that this is just one way of working, but it's frustrating to me that the make 2nd copy is so close and could so easily make the same folder choices (subfoldername/2010-11-26 or whatever) as the original imported files, yet it doesn't.
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Bryn Forbes

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Also, I'd like the option for when it does the second copy to verify it matches the first copy and then delete the files from the source (so that the compact flash card is empty so I don't have to worry in the field if I've offloaded that card -- seen too many people with the system to format in camera, think they have offloaded and then lose images. can still format an empty card in camera if you want)
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ERIC BURLET

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Also very interested in a second copy that matches the first copy folders naming! And by the way, I'd like the second copy feature to be available when shooting tethered!
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ptr727

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I want to use second copy as a means of making permanent copies of the original files, I current use Image Ingester Pro to do this.
LR CC can easily support this workflow by simply making a duplicate copy during import, same folder structure and same name as used for import, but a different destination folder.
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Geoff Long

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled LIGHTROOM - Format of file folder naming when choosing Make a Second Copy To when....

When importing, and choosing 'Make a Second Copy To', Lightroom names the file folders alphabetically, eg 'Imported on 14 December 2015' (using the non-American date format) so 14 December 2015 would come before 15 June 2015, for example.

If folders were named after the style 'Imported on 2015-12-14' they would be easier to find (and it be more logical).
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Andy DelGiudice

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled More Specific Import Redundancy.

It would be great to have more control over the redundant files created by the "Make a Second Copy" feature of the Import process. 

I utilize a file renaming system upon import, and it would be useful to have the option to apply that same renaming process to second "backup" folder. 

I realize that some users cull & purge before backing up, but I keep all images on redundant primary and backup drives so it would be great if Lightroom allowed for consistent naming across primary and secondary import locations. 
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Roelof Moorlag

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I utilize a file renaming system upon import, and it would be useful to have the option to apply that same renaming process to second "backup" folde
The file renaming on the 'originals' are applied on the second copy yet.