Lightroom: Read and write video metadata into video or sidecar

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The new Video part is great! I really like the previews.It is a great addition to sort and tag your video's. Only one problem:The tagging system doesn't work properly, it doesn't store the tags in the video-files like it is possible with the photo's. I hope this will be working in the Final.
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R P

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  • wishfull!

Posted 7 years ago

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Lee Jay

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Most video files don't have a specified spot for metadata, like still images do. The video folks apparently don't have their acts together that way.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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The XMP Specification Part 3: Storage in Files (an Adobe document), specifies how to store XMP metadata in: ASF (WMA, WMV), AVI, FLV, MOV, MP3, MPEG-2, MPEG-4 (generic and F4V), SWF, WAV, AVCHD, P2, Sony HDV, XDCAM EX, XDCAM FAM, XDCAM SAM.
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William Cotton

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Okay, the document you reference, http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/devnet/xmp/pdfs/XMPSpecificationPart3.pdf,  looks useful for programmers. It  takes a wider view of XMP, beyond the IPTC type of information we users are typically want to enter on our own.  It doesn't address the question that it appears Adobe doesn't support transport of IPTC XMP metadata associated with video files outside of its stand alone applications. IPTC metadata may be entered within Lightroom, Bridge, etc. but I haven't seen a way to transport the metadata to another application, computer, user, etc. Photo Mechanic does this with an XMP sidecar file, but I have yet to find another application that does. Of course it takes another application to be similarly programmed to read the associated XMP sidecar files. I found Canto Cumulus successfully does. I'm not sure what other applications do.
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Daniel Arbeeny

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Something else happened recently that concerns me. I had a disk failure. So I copied the image & movie files back (thankfully I keep a backup on a Drobo). I then restored a catalog backup. What seems to have happened is my movies all lost there creation dates.

Does this sound reasonable consequence of this issue or am I dealing with something else?

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John R. Ellis, Champion

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XMP metadata can be stored inside a file if the file format supports it (as most do), otherwise it can be stored in .xmp sidecars.  For photos, LR stores XMP metadata inside JPEGs, TIFFs, PNGs, and PSDs.  For proprietary raw files, LR uses .xmp side cars.   The information stored in the XMP metadata is the same in both cases.   

The same approach can be used with video.  As described in that spec, XMP can be stored inside the video for the common formats and in .xmp sidecars for other formats that don't allow it.

The XMP spec allows all of the EXIF and IPTC metadata fields to be stored inside XMP.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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"So I copied the image & movie files back (thankfully I keep a backup on a Drobo). I then restored a catalog backup. What seems to have happened is my movies all lost there creation dates."

If you're referring to the file creation dates shown in the Mac Finder, not all programs maintain those dates as you copy files.  It's very possible that whatever utility you used to backup or restore the files lost the file creation dates.  (A program has to take explicit action to maintain them -- the operating system doesn't do it for them.)

There are so many programs these days that don't maintain file creation dates that, in my opinion, you shouldn't rely on them.  Better to rely on the metadata fields stored in the image or video.  (Except of course, LR can't update such fields.)
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R P

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Thanks for your reply. I don't think that this is the problem, for instance Windows Live Photo gallery is able to tag all the video's. and they are stored in the files. As can been seen in the details of the files.
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Lee Jay

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Can it store EXIF data, IPTC data and Develop settings?
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R P

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With "it" you mean LR or Windows Photo thingy?

I think LR is not able to story anything in the file at the moment. And the Windows thingy is able to store tags and ratings. I don't know about the rest.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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Many video container formats do support metadata; see for an overview:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparis...

The Windows Imaging Architecture provides a mechanism for applications to modify arbitrary metadata of image and video files, provided there's codec for the file type.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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I agree that it would be good for LR to store metadata for video files; without that ability, it's not the "single, robust workflow solution that can support all of your imaging needs regardless if they’re still images or video captures" that the Lightroom team aspires to (http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjourn....

LR could adopt an approach similar to what Adobe products have done with photos: If a metadata field (e.g. Keywords) has a slot in the particular video format, it will store it there. But it will also store all the metadata fields in an XMP sidecar. This is similar to how LR uses EXIF, IPTC, and XMP fields in photos. (Note that the XMP:DynamicMedia namespace is designed for video-specific metadata and appears to be the basis for the Video preset of the LR 4 Metadata panel.)
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R P

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John,

Thanks for your extra information. Please press the "I have this problem too" button so that maybe Adobe employers see this problem.

Thanks!
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Morten Carlsen

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Hi,

Do this:

1) Import some .MOV files into LR4
2) Apply some metedata
3) Click "Write Metadata" in the metadata status field
-- Lightroom will confirm that data has been written
4) Open the video file in i.e. AE or PP
5) Those metadata that were "supposedly" written - gues what.. They weren't written. At least both PP, AE and Bridge cannot see them.
6) In either PP or AE - Alter the metadata settings of the imported file from step 4
7) Go back to lightroom 4
8) The metadata status field has now been updated to "Conflict"
9) Click the little button and a window pops up asking you to either "Overwrite" or "Read from Disk"
10) Regardless of which one you choose - ABSOLUTELY nothing changes.

Is this really the way things are supposed to be ?
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Morten Carlsen

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LR4 - if Video is integrated into the final version 4 - should implement features so that they work.

Why on earth should lightroom NOT share and access metadata from all the other adobe apps....

No reason really !
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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This is what Adobe employee "simonsaith" saith about video metadata in LR 4:

"I think the discussion internally is not if. It is just the resource and priorities for the release. A lot of things on our hand to chew off in one release."

http://forums.adobe.com/message/41408...
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Morten Carlsen

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Perhaps I am missing the VERY obvios, however it seems to me as if LR4's video integration is missing just about anything there is to miss.
Really crazy to think that those apps are coming from the same house ;-)

1) There is NO possibility to export to non-compressed media an include the Metadata CAREFULLY set in Lightroom. DPX does NOT get the LR4 Metadata written to them.
2) Exporting an H264 to H264 directly without intermediating will downgrade the quality so severly that one does NOT want to look at that video anymore.
3) Adobe has a wonderful way of sharing Metadata between its professional apps, so if one applies metadate inside of i..e Bride, Premiere Pro will be able to read them and vice versa.
ALL metadata applied inside of LR4 - STAY in lightroom 4. No other adobe app will be able to see those metadata. This is beyond crazy to me. And I have a HARD time understanding
why adobe implemented all those features of video if they are absoluty NO USE to anyone. Unless of course one would want to watch all his videos in Lightroom UNCUT.
But since the adobe lightroom crew has not yet figured out the obvious and included Lightroom in Apple's FronRow - I dont see that happen, at least for Mac users which are VERY acustomed
to a certain luxury that ANY OS should feature!

If this here wasnt so darn tragic I would be laughing instead i am pulling my hair. I would LOVE to actually be able to use Lightroom to handle my rushes (footage) and be able to apply metadata in LR4 and then just import into Premiere.

Perhaps this just the first beta's shortcomings. I really hope so.

If I am missing the very obvious and doing something wrong, please enlighten my poor soul ;-)

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom: LR4 Beta: Metadata applied in Lightroom isn't available in other applications.
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Michael Meyer

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LR4 needs to be able to store, import and export metadata for non-image files such as video files and other files I wish to organize in LR4.

This is critical for a cross application workflow based on metadata as well as allowing LR4 to serve as a robust DAM system.

LR4 needs to be able export this metadata into sidecar XMP files and be able to import the metadata from the sidecar XMP files.

This includes the standard XMP fields such as subject as well as the lr extensions, hierarchical subject, etc.
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Thronsen

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The inability for LR3 and 4 to record and manage most video files by date is a disgrace. Windows 7, for free, does a much better job.

The basis of the problem, from what I have been able to work out, is if the video does not contain a specific 'Date Taken' (or whatever*) value, then LR3 and 4 use the 'Date Created' as the time of the video. This is useless, as (in Windows anyway) that is generally the time the video was copied to your machine or HDD, rather then when it was taken.

That I think is the basics, but it gets worse and more complicated. Sometimes it seems to use GMT (as opposed to your local time). Sometimes it will change the time depending of whether or not you have daylight savings enabled in your camera. I spent a couple of hours testing, and with all my cameras set to the correct local time, I could get 7 different LR 'Capture Time' with 7 different cameras. Its a bad joke.

The very very very very easy solution would be to have LR just use the 'Date Modified' time instead of 'Date Created' or whatever they use now. Thats what Windows 7 and a whole bunch of other programs use by default. But a number of us have been raising this since LR3 beta, and have been systematically ignored.

And its why I dont use Lightroom to manage my videos.
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Jonathan Ripsom

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The Canon 5D Mark III does not produce .THM sidecar files with the .MOV video files, but all the same camera metadata is available in the .MOV file as was available in the .THM file (like with the Canon 7D). None of this .MOV metadata is being imported into LR. Also having this problem with Canon SX40HS.


See images below for the difference in metadata panels from 7D to 5D Mark III. Makes it impossible to use metadata filtering on videos!


Canon 5D Mk III Metadata in Lightroom:




Canon 7D Metadata in Lightroom (image below corrected 4/9, shown in LR 3.6 - I actually am having trouble importing 7D videos into 4.1 RC at the moment):




Using Jeffrey Friedl's excellent "Metadata Viewer" Plugin, it is possible to see that all the metadata is available in the 5D .MOV file, so I would expect it to be pulled into Lightroom as well.


Thanks!

Jon

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom 4.1 RC Not Importing .MOV Metadata for Canon 5D Mark III.
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Paige Miller

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This behavior regarding video metadata in Lightroom 4 is terribly inconsistent and frustrating. In my case, I took a bunch of videos, and then each one, one-by-one, I had to select Metadata->Edit Capture time, and then the select Change to File's Creation Date, and then the metadata field, and time shown in the grid was correct. So obviously, Edit Capture Time can uncover the date and time the video was created.

I suggest to Adobe that in the future, imported videos show the creation time in the grid, as well as in the EXIF metadata. I don't want to see the time imported, and I don't want to have to select the videos one by one to achieve this.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
LR4 Video Metadata -- Capture Date/Time isn't Shown in Metadata or Grid.
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Paolo Avezzano

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My Fujifilm X10 movies are shown as shot by unknown camera (and unknown lens, BTW).
No metadata panel under Lightroom is able to extract the camera model.

If I open any .MOV under finder and CMD+I, the camera name is shown:



It mean that the data is written somewhere but Lightroom did not manage to find it.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom: movies shot by "Unknown Camera".
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Paolo Avezzano

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Waiting for the thread to be split back again, here is the output for exiftool.
The camera model is reported twice:

Information                     : FUJIFILM DIGITAL CAMERA X10

Camera Model Name : X10
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Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață, Champion

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Same thing as in the other thread.

The fact that the metadata is in the file and ExifTool can see it, does not mean Lightroom would necessarily read it.

The title of this topic is a bit obsolete (thus it mislead you), but this thread has become the master thread for the issue of "poor video metadata handling" in general. And this is exactly the reason why Lightroom does not display your camera model name.
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Paolo Avezzano

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As moderator you're allowed to do that, but you're really mixing apple and oranges in the very same basket.
Beside that, exiftool reads that, Apple Finder reads that. The metadata is not encrypted.

Missing such information in Lightroom and displaying "unknown camera" for a known one is indeed a bug.
Let's hope that Adobe fixes it shortly. It shouldn't be that hard.
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Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață, Champion

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Yes, the metadata is there and yes, it is a bug (or a design limitation). But it's the same bug/limitation, or rather a subset of the one discussed in this topic — "Poor video metadata handling". (I guess we should update the topic title, maybe?)

There's no much use in same problem reports being scattered over multiple topics. I believe, a problem has a bigger chance to get attention when the "Me Too" counter has a higher value.
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Thronsen

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Im all for whatever gives this issue a higher profile. Its such a glaring gap that really hamstrings LR as a management tool for videos.

Things like the 'Date Created' vs 'Date Modified' problem, which is clearly NOT by design (its different then the way photos are treated for example), have been complained about since LR 3 beta two years ago, and nothing is ever done.

I still dont use LR to manage my videos, for just these reasons.
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Kit Chung

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Importing videos from Samsung WB2000 into Lightroom 4.x does not have proper creation dates. This was not a problem with Lighroom 3.x

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom 4: Videos from Samsung WB2000 have improper dates.
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Elmar de Pauw

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Hi,

I have imported AVCHD videos from an SD card in Panasonic HD writer to a harddisk. Later on, I have imported these files in lightroom. Now, Lightroom 4.1 displays the capture date as the date on which the files were written to the harddisk. When I view the properties of the files in Sony Vegas 10, it correctly displays the capture date as the date on which the clips were made, so the capture date code is still correctly embedded. Lightroom 4.1 correctly orders the files chronologically, so it is able to read the date code correctly.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
LIGHTROOM 4.1: Capture date of videos from harddisk incorrect.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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In your case, LR isn't reading the capture date from the metadata; rather, it is sorting your thumbnails by their files' file-modified date. LR displays the file-created date in grid view, but it uses the file-modifed date for sorting and filtering:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...

When you copy a file on Windows, the file-modified date (set by the camera) is preserved, while the file-created date is set to the date/time the file was copied.
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Kaffeesegler

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LR 4.2 does not read GPS data from my iPhone 4 videos, reads wrong capture data (shifted by 2h). Both problems do not occur with simple iPhone JPEGs.

Other external software does read this video metadata information correctly.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
LR 4.2 import problem with iPhone video: no GPS data, wrong capture time.
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Shan-adobe Agra-Acrobat

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I have not idea why Adobe doesn't read video metadata!
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Shan-adobe Agra-Acrobat

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this was a problem in LR 3 too, and Adobe added more video functionality into LR 4 but conveniently skipped this. Google Picasa does this for free!
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Alan Harper

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Even if Lightroom (4.2) can't write to THM sidecar files, there doesn't seem to any reason it couldn't at least read all the exif & iptc fields. I set the IPTC "Title" field using a separate program (exiftool), and it causes me many problems that Lightroom can't read this field for my .MOV files, and maintains a separate, unsynchronized value for this field.

exiftool is a free and highly tested tool that Adobe could easily add to Lightroom to handle cases where their team hasn't gotten around to writing the code, I wish that Adobe would use it (or write their own code) so that video is a "first class" citizen in Lightroom.
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Alan Harper

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I have decided to use the following as a temporary work-around to this problem:

Canon, at least, creates a thm file for every movie file. A thm file stores some of the metadata associated with the movie file (like date/time), and can be used to store other any other IPTC metadata like location, latitude/longitude. Lightroom, of course ignores the thm file. However if you duplicate the thm files as jpg files (I have an applescript that does this), then Lightroom will at least treat the jpg files as "first class" citizens, allowing you to save metadata in them, and write metadata to them from other programs.

If you use other programs to change metadata in your image files (like georeferencing) or if you just like to have the metadata saved with the image so you can share it with other people and other programs, the "JPEG sidecar" is at least a partial solution.

For Mac users, the following AppleScript will duplicate all thm files in a directory to jpg files.

==

set theFolder to choose folder with prompt "Choose a folder of thm files."
tell application "Finder" to set thmFiles to files of theFolder whose name extension is "THM"

repeat with f in thmFiles
set src to POSIX path of (f as text)
set dest to ((characters 1 thru -4 of src) as text) & "jpg"
set whatIwouldDo to "cp " & quoted form of src & " " & quoted form of dest
try
do shell script whatIwouldDo
end try
end repeat
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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This is the technique that the Any File plugin uses -- it creates a "proxy" JPEG thumbnail that gets imported into the catalog, and it transfers all metadata from the video file or its sidecars (e.g. .thm's) to the proxy file. Any metadata changes you make in lightroom are written to the proxy JPEG.
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Alan Harper

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Yes, of course, John, I should have mentioned Any File as another (great) solution.
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R P

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That is a good comment, thanks. Did you click the +1 at the top ".... people have this problem". Maybe if we get enough hits, Adobe will finally address this problem.
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Louis Sherwin

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One can only hope that the LIghtroom development team will get the resources necessary to follow the current metadata standards that are already being used in Premier and Final Cut Pro X.

-louie
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Louis Sherwin

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Hey In case anyone is interested here is the Final Cut Pro XML format specification pdf

I'm sure that there is a similar document for Premier and Avid.

-louie