Lightroom: Spot Removal freeze (Win 7)

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  • Updated 4 years ago
  • (Edited)
I have just bought Light Room3 (v3.5) on Dell Latitude E6520 with an Intel Core i7-2720QM processor, 8GB RAM and a 256GB SSD. I store my photos on a RAID5 NAS. When using the spot removal on .jpg files (so far it has not happened on raw - Nikon D7000 16MP .nef files) if use the tool more than twice in a row, LR freezes - the little hand makes a fist, processor works, memory used increases - looks like program is in a never ending loop). If I stop the program and re-start, the change is there. I notice on the web that this has been a problem for over a year but I cannot find a sensible fix. (There are many suggestions about bad drivers, bad power supplies etc.) Is there a fix? if so, what is it and where do I get it?
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George Cathcart

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Posted 5 years ago

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Jim Wilde

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We did some testing on this issue over at Lightroom Forums and identified that (at least on version 3.5) there is definitely a problem related to Windows 7 on a multi-core system. See this link: http://www.lightroomforums.net/showth...

Doesn't happen on LR2, but I'm not sure about earlier LR3 versions as I haven't had time to go back and test.
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George Cathcart

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Thankyou - it's good to know that I'm not alone. One thing for me try would be to re-install without adding the updates.
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Chief Customer Advocate

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Is it possible the graphics drivers need updating? What video card are you using? Do you have more than one monitor set up? What's the resolution of the monitor you are using?

I'd go directly to the nVidia or AMD/ATI site to make sure you have the latest drivers.
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George Cathcart

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I'm using two monitors - both are full HD (1920 * 1080) with an nVidia card (sorry not at home so don't know the exact version). My feeling is that it's not this as I updated all drivers about 2 months ago - I only have LR3 a couple of weeks. Nothing else freezes when this happens, any other program running works normally and I can see the memory in use by LR3 increasing.
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George Cathcart

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Its possible my comment above only demonstrates my ignorance of how LR3 works. I'll try this and the other possible solutions tonight. Thanks for the reply, I'll keep you posted..
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John Read

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Same exact scenario to George, very similar hardware, monitors, nVidia GTX 560 Ti, brand new and updated. 16 GB of RAM, AMD FX(tm)-6100 Six-Core processor, SSD drive for OS and 2TB hard disk for media. This occurred on our last machine as well, which wasn't quite as powerful.
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John Read

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I have noticed that it is more frequent when working on files that I had edited in photoshop and then saved as psd. Also tried operating the catalog on both drives, SSD and hard disk, no change.
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Beat Gossweiler

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Jeffrey,

IMHO, there is definitely a problem in LR 3.5 cloning in 1:1 zoom level related to JPEG images and multicore processors.

I also did some testing related to the thread Jim mentions at lightroomforums.net. I tested with both my

  • notebook (dual-core i7 2620M 2.7GHz processor, Intel and NVIDIA video controller)

  • desktop (six-core i7 980X 3.33GHz processor, ATI Radeon video controller)


and they both show the hangs (freezes) in spot removal when done in a 1:1 zoom level. Dedicating LR to run on one core only makes the problem disappear on both systems.

Please see also this thread over at the U2U forum which discusses the same subject.

This is a sample image on which the problem occurs quite heavily. I don't know what kind of JPEGs show the problem the most, I've noticed that pixel dimensions have an influence (very small JPEGs seem not to show the problem).

Beat

P.S: If you need any instructions on how to reproduce the problem, please ask. The original post in the thread Jim mentions describes it pretty well though.

I've also tried to record a screen capture of the behaviour, but while running my screen capture software, the problem does not occur :-(
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George Cathcart

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Hi Beat, many thanks, I'll try this tonight along with Jeffrey's suggestion.

George
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Beat Gossweiler

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George,

If you want to try if setting LR to only use one core, here are the instructions on how to set processor affinity for a process:
http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-...

I'd be interested in hearing your results.

Beat
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George Cathcart

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Thanks - I'll post my results in a moment - I think it is a thread problem :-)
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Chief Customer Advocate

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Thanks guys. Appreciate the additional details - just want to make sure we've debugged all possible culprits - and have a complete picture with which to have someone on the QE team try and reproduce.
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George Cathcart

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If you give me an e-mail address or access to an ftp server, I can let you have a copy of the image and detailed instructions on how I get it to freeze.
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George Cathcart

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Hi Jeffrey, I have done some tests and think it is probably a thread problem. This is the 2nd time I've typed this in so will do it in bits this time. 1st the remaining hardware details. My video card is NVIDIA NVS 4200M 512MB (45W) Discrete Graphics see below
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George Cathcart

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I started testing (with LR3 allowed to run on all cores) a raw (.nef) photo with dimensions 4928*3264pixels. I sarted testing by doing 5 spot removals, each followed immediately with a spot update. I did it at 1:1, 4:1 and 11:1 zoom. I had no problems.

I did the same using a jpg version of the same photo (from the camera) and always had problems at 4:1 zoom when LR3 'froze after the 1st or 2nd attempt.I had no problems at 1:1 or 11:1

I repeated using a LR3 export of the same photo (1024 * 678pixels) and had some problems at 11:1 zoom. This happened less often than in the previous test. I had no problems at 1:1 or 4:1
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George Cathcart

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I then started 'playing' with 'processor affinity'. I had no problems with any of the above when running on 1 core (CPU0). At 7 CPUs I had less trouble than with 8, and with 6 CPUs less trouble than with 7.

I noticed when LR froze, one core was always working harder that the others. If I unselected that core, 9 out of 10 times LR 'unfroze' as I pressed the OK button in the 'Processor Affinity' pane.
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George Cathcart

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My first thought was there was probably some sort of race condition with one thread looping (not always flat out - the hardest working thread I saw was about 80-85% and it 'grew' to this level over a couple of seconds.) possibly waiting for another thread to finish but would stopping the looping thread before it finished allow other threads to continue?

Hope this all helps
George
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Beat Gossweiler

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Thanks for your findings, George, which match what I experience, although I did not go that far with testing.

Beat
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Becky Sowada, Adobe Employee

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George and Beat, does the bug still happen for you with Lightroom 3.6 (now available on adobe.com)? I tried clone spot removal with Beat's sample image, zoomed to 1:1, and added over 30 spots without any problems.
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jw stephenson

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Hi Becky,

This is the same problem you and I discussed directly when V 3.0 was released. With each passing update I hoped, as did you, it has been resolved but through 3.5 no solution seen yet. There was some improvement around 3.2 or 3.3, I don't remember, but it is still there.

It seems fairly certain to be a core resourcing problem. I have turned hyper-threading off and the problem/lag is significantly better (as other have suggested) and it is clearly worse on JPEG images (again, nothing new being reported). When I do still see the spot-healing hang, or if I visit an image in the Develop Module which had a significant number of spots previously applied, I view the "CPU Usage" gadget I have running and always when this hang occurs, one core (random) is always at 100% and feels "stuck". As soon as it drops down below 100%, all goes back to normal.

I haven't loaded 3.6 as there was no indication that this issue was worked on since 3.5 thus I saw no need. Others don't seem to see any improvement either so I assume it is still the same old issue. I have tried both Nvidia and Ati cards and updated software but the problem persists.

Hopefully when version 4.0 comes around with the much sought-after healing brush they have figured this out since it is likely to be much more computation intensive than the spot healing tool :)

Best of luck tracking this down.

Jeff
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Beat Gossweiler

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and always when this hang occurs, one core (random) is always at 100% and feels "stuck"


Jeff,

This is not what I (and others who have tested) see during the lockup. This is a snapshot of my CPU usage during such a lockup, note that the hang was resolved where you see the sharp decline in CPU usage on several cores.

Beat
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jw stephenson

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Beat - and that is probably why this problem has persisted so long, it can't be consistently described or duplicated between machines. Do you have the i-5/7 cores or the Xeon series? I have the Xeon E5520 2.27GHz processors (2).

Jeff
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Beat Gossweiler

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Jeff,

This screenshot (from above) was taken on a i7 980X with Hyperthreading enabled. But I also see similar behaviour on my notebook with an i7 2620M with Hyperthreading enabled (see here).

Disabling Hyperthreading seems to cure the problem on my i7 2620M (2 cores left), but not on my 980X (6 cores left), as this screenshot shows. Note that when Hyperthreading is off, one core is close to (but not AT) 100% during the lockup period.

Beat
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George Cathcart

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Don't know yet :-) trying (unsuccessfully so far) to update video driver. Will now try LR3.6 upgrade first
Thanks
George
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George Cathcart

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Hi Becky,

No, I'm afraid it still happens but it seems sometimes to be more likely to come back by itself - after 20-25 seconds. (at least it did it twice which I'd not seen before)
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Beat Gossweiler

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Becky,

I haven't installed 3.6 yet, I'll test and report back after the week end.

Beat
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Jim Wilde

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I've just installed 3.6 and retested using Beat's jpeg, but still getting the same inconsistent results.

First test: made two clone spot removal attempts (each case rather extreme long distance clones), got the closed-fist lockup on the second one and this did not clear so had to force quit using Task Manager.

Second Test went better, was able to apply copious spot removals but did not attempt to update the sampling spot from the LR selection. After 20-30 of these I then started adjusting the sampling area and got the 'temporary for a few seconds' closed fist. Slow and jerky, but could survive.

Third Test, repeated the second test, but this time after successfully applying spot removals using default sampling area, then got the full closed fist lockup when attempting long distance clones which did not recover. Force quit required.

Fourth Test: tried to repeat the first test, and on the very first attempt the cursor/fist simply disappeared (the cursor reappears when I move outside the Lightroom window).and still hasn't reappeared within Lightroom while I was typing this note. Another force quit required.

So basically no change at all from 3.5.

Question: was there a specific fix applied in 3.6 for this bug?
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Beat Gossweiler

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Same here. I just installed LR 3.6 on my notebook (dual-core i7 2620M 2.7GHz processor with HyperThreading), Intel and NVIDIA video controller) and get the same (inconsistent, but repeating) results as in 3.5. This does not happen if I confine LR to Core0. Please note the HyperThreading in effect for both cores.

@Becky:
If I can assist with having debug traps in place, I'd be happy to test for you with your instructions.

Beat
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Jim Wilde

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Just to add that after waiting in vain for over 10 minutes for my cursor to come back inside Lightroom, I used the Task Manager to assign affinity to one core only and got immediate recovery of the cursor AND the ability to rapidly and smoothly add many more long-distance spot removals.

BTW, I did not have to be zoomed into 1:1 for any of the above problems....they happen just the same in Fit view.
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Beat Gossweiler

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after waiting in vain for over 10 minutes for my cursor to come back inside Lightroom, I used the Task Manager to assign affinity to one core only and got immediate recovery of the cursor AND the ability to rapidly and smoothly add many more long-distance spot removals


This is what I'm experiencing also. Assigning affinity to one core immediately solves the "lock". Also, I've never had to kill LR to recover, it always came back by itself after a (varying) while (but I'm a patient IT person :-))

Beat
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George Cathcart

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It is possible to solve the 'lock' by just un-assigning the correct core - which is usually the one that is consistently busy. Cores are numbered starting at 0 from the left in the performance window in Task Manager
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Jim Wilde

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George, I think you'll find that it doesn't really matter which single core you assign affinity to, it's just the fact that a single core is assigned which causes LR to 'unlock'. I've assigned both inactive and active cores with the same result.
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George Cathcart

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Hi Jim, I think you misunderstood. If LR is assigned to multiple cores and 'lock's up', by looking at the core activity under Performance and un-assigning the core which is busiest, 9 times out of 10 LR unlocks at the point you hit the OK button. Oddly stopping the core seems to have no detrimental affect on LR which continues as normal, and displays the change being made at the time of the 'lock-up' as being completed.

I would tentatively interpret this as one thread being stuck in a loop waiting for 'something' to signal completion when in fact the 'something' has already completed but the looping thread is not recognising this and is in turn holding up the completion of another process/thread.
I suspect this condition depends on the timing between two threads which is why it happens so illogically in one machine with a specific photo but not on another, This is just a guess but if correct means that adding debug code will probably stop the lock-up from happening on the same machine under the same conditions. It is not easy to find.

I have seen times when LR is locks up for 10 or 15 secs and then reverts to normal behaviour - in this case if the task manager is open you can see the usage on one core drop from about 85% to a normal 0-1% at the point that LR unlocks.
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Jim Wilde

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OK, yes I see what you are saying.....except that (certainly in my case) when it "locks up" there are usually 3 or 4 cores which are 'busy', so pinpointing the 'one' to clear the hang becomes a matter of trial and error. In my case it is far simpler to simply reassign to a single core just to clear the problem.

One of the other inconsistencies that I've mentioned is that the length of time that LR "locks up" can vary from seconds to more than a few minutes. Also, it seems that the problem only occurs when one attempts to 'drag' either of the two circles.....
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George Cathcart

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I would agree with you about the inconsistencies but think I am more impatient than you - if it freezes for more than about 30 seconds, I'm too impatient to wait - so I don't know about it recovering after a few minutes. I notices in LR3.6 it was more likely to recover (within my limited attention span) than with 3.5.1.
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Jim Wilde

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In a real-life situation I also would be far more impatient, I've let it 'hang' for minutes at a time only as part of a targeted testing effort in order to provide as much information as possible to the Adobe engineers and the folks over at Lightroom Forums.
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More than one person has confirmed that the problem is happening when all of the following conditions are met:

- JPEG image
- Core i5 / Core i7 CPU
- Hyperthreading enabled

Disable hyperthreading and the problem does not occur, or at least not as often.

With only one core assigned forcibly to LR process the problem never occurs.

See this thread (which has been running for 1.5 years now):

http://forums.adobe.com/message/40913...
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George Cathcart

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Hi uncle_fed,

Given the number of people who are suffering from this problem and who have complained about it on other fora, I'm surprised that the little counter at the top of this thread still says '2 people have this problem'. I have worked in the IT business for the last 23 years and I know how difficult it is to find something like this (not that problems like this could exist in PCs 23 years ago) but I also know that if only a small number of people complain about it, then it may never get to the top of the pile to be looked at.

George
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Beat Gossweiler

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Very good point !!!
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George Cathcart

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Hi Beat, Do you know how to add a comment to the above thread - I can find no way to do it. Do you need to log in a second time for a button to apear or something?
George
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Beat Gossweiler

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If you're refering to the thread at the Adobe Lightroom forum (http://forums.adobe.com/community/lig...:
You need to sign in using the "Login/Register" link right underneath the large title 'Forums".

Beat
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Helge Jordal

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I am having the same problem myself.
The problem has been described well enough here and elsewhere, so not going to bother repeating everything, lest just add that I too am suffering from this bug, and hope Adobe can fix it ASAP.

(I am aware of the 'fix' of changing CPU affinity, but I find that a wholly unsatisfactory solution. I shouldn't have to hamper my computer/software to circumvent something that is most assuredly a bug.)

Helge
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George Cathcart

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As an experiment over new year I installed LR3.6 onto my wife's computer - same make/model as my own but more modern - and had exactly the same hanging problem with spot removal.
George
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Richard Devitt

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Sorry to be late to this party, but I have struggled with this problem for a several months. For me, it happens with 16-bit tiff files created by LR 3.6, externally edited (Ctrl+E) in PS CS5, and automatically added to the catalog by LR after editing. Don't recall if it happens with raw (CR2) files or not. Camera is Canon 5D2.

FWIW, here is some system info reported by Windows (sorry for the mess below):

System:
OS Name: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional
Version: 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 Build 7601
System Type: x64-based PC
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU X 980 @ 3.33GHz, 3334 Mhz, 6 Core(s), 12 Logical Processor(s)
BIOS Version/Date: American Megatrends Inc. 0701, 10/05/2011
SMBIOS Version: 2.5
Hardware Abstraction Layer: Version = "6.1.7601.17514"
Time Zone: Eastern Standard Time
Installed Physical Memory: 24.0 GB
Total Physical Memory: 24.0 GB
Available Physical Memory: 17.6 GB
Total Virtual Memory: 48.0 GB
Available Virtual Memory: 40.0 GB
Page File Space: 24.0 GB

Graphics:
Name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260
PNP Device ID: PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_05E2&SUBSYS_0CFB19F1&REV_A1\4&2F1C4782&0&0018
Adapter Type: GeForce GTX 260, NVIDIA compatible
Adapter Description: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260
Adapter RAM: 896.00 MB (939,524,096 bytes)
Installed Drivers: nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,
: nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um
Driver Version: 8.17.12.7533
INF File: oem36.inf (Section005 section)
Color Planes: Not Available
Color Table Entries: 4294967296
Resolution: 1920 x 1200 x 59 hertz
Bits/Pixel: 32
Memory Address: 0xFA000000-0xFAFFFFFF
Memory Address: 0xD0000000-0xDFFFFFFF
Memory Address: 0xF8000000-0xFBCFFFFF
I/O Port: 0x0000CC00-0x0000CC7F
IRQ Channel: IRQ 24
I/O Port: 0x000003B0-0x000003BB
I/O Port: 0x000003C0-0x000003DF
Memory Address: 0xA0000-0xBFFFF
Driver: c:\windows\system32\drivers\nvlddmkm.sys (8.17.12.7533, 12.59 MB (13,206,120 bytes), 21/05/2011 6:01 AM)
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George Cathcart

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Hi Richard, Thanks for the info, I hope Becky and/or Jeffrey will find it useful. Nothing has happened over Christmas and new year, Cheers George
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Gary Prosenko

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LR 3.6 Spot Removal Tool hangs the program. But of course you already know this. It's been a problem for at least 1 1/2 years - based on forum comments. Anyway, please fix at least by LR4 release.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom 3.6: Spot Remvoal Tool hangs application.