Lightroom Classic: Different tones in B&W print when printed at different size

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We are printing a B&W image at A4 then A2. We are using LR manages colour and a custom profile for the paper. The tones are different for each size, A2 much lighter. If we print using the Epson Advanced B&W driver (printer manages colour) the prints at each size are identical.Anyone else seen this?LR 2015.10 CR 9.10. MBP15” Late 2011 Epson 3880
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Adrian Beasley

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Posted 6 months ago

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andrewthedigitaldog

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Stick with Advanced B&W!
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Michel DELFELD

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Do you mean that you have two different files for the two format to be printed? (A4 and A2)
What kind of paper are you using? Producer name and reference
Are you using the same paper type for both sizes?
Are you using the ICC files delivered by the supplier? 
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Adrian Beasley

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Thanks for coming back to me....

Single file, printed at different sizes by selecting page size in a page setup
Fotospeed NST Bright white 315 paper with a custom profile created by them
Same paper for both sizes
ICC profiles generated by supplier. They are good and neutral, A4 is a very good match to screen.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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Check the image file at 1:1 Zoom view and make sure 1)  there is no visible Luminance noise and 2) that the image is not being over-sharpened. Resize interpolation can cause the image to appear lighter if significant noise is present in the image. Espon's resize algorithm may be less prone to issues with Luminance noise, but for best results you still should remove visible noise with the Luminance NR slider and not over-sharpen.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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The image has a native resolution of 260ppi at A2, and we are forcing the print to 360ppi. I assume it’s Lightroom that is doing the upsize for A2 and downsize for A4 so the printer/driver should be common and not causing the issues in this case.
If everything is working properly one would think so. LR has been plagued with numerous color management issues and simply prone to stop working properly due to Preferences file corruption and OS updates. Try setting 'Print to' to JPEG with the same LR managed print settings. Compare the two JPEG files. If they look the same then as andrewthedigitaldog said "Stick with Advanced B&W!"
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Adrian Beasley

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Excellent idea, will try that!
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Adrian Beasley

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I just did your test.  I created an A4 and A2 print templates with maximum image cells.  Printed to jpg at 300ppi A4 and 150ppi A2 so that when they are sized the same on screen, they are the same resolution.  No sharpening, maximum jpg quality.

The resulting jpg files appear different when viewed side-by-side using preview and in the finder previews, A2 lighter.  I even used the Mac digital colour meter to measure tones on screen and there is some difference.  However, when I load them into photoshop they appear and measure identical!!

I thought I could do the same process with Photoshop, but you cant print to jpg.  For the moment at least we will either print in LR with Advanced B/W driver or use Photoshop, especially for colour work as there is no LR solution.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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However, when I load them into photoshop they appear and measure identical!!
If they appear identical in PS, but not LR that would indicate a monitor profile issue. Do any other image files exhibit this behavior or just this one file? Can you make the original file, two JPEG files, and full details on the template settings available for download?
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Adrian Beasley

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Adrian Beasley

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I have attached a small crop of the A2 followed by A4 version.  Take a look at the sky tones.  To me the A2 is slightly lighter.  Remember, exactly same image "printed at" A2 and A4.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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Adrian, the sky area measures the same in both posted screenshots on my system inside LR ( Right Corner = Lab 87.7, 0.8, -0.2). Other areas of the sky are also near identical. It looks like the A2 150dpi output file has Sharpening applied, but the A4 300dpi output file does not. Below is an example using the same settings (300ppi A4 with sharpening and 150ppi A2 w/o sharpening).

I suggest resetting your LR Preferences file as outlined at the below link. You can rename the Lightroom Preferences.agprefs to Lightroom Preferences.agprefs.OLD or simply move it to the desktop. You'll need to close and reopen LR to create a new Preferences file. Try again!

If the issue persist I'll need to see a sample original file with two Print JPEG output files (150ppi, 300ppi).

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Adrian Beasley

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Thanks for your comments.  Perhaps the print to jpg hasn't actually worked, the physical prints are noticeably different.  To recap, when we use LR manages colours and print same image at A4 and A2 we see a clear difference, but when we use the Epson Advanced B/W driver, the A4 and A2 are exact matches.
Obviously we want to minimise paper use, so the jpg idea was a great one, but perhaps not illustrating the problem.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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On my system the two JPEG output files look identicalYour most recent screenshots show a difference in the two JPEG output files, which illustrate you have a LR issue. This in fact may be the cause of your original stated problem. I highly suggest you try resetting the LR Preferences file. It can become corrupted during the LR update process (version 5>6, 6>7) and cause many unexplained issues. We see this quite frequently. Sorry, I neglected to paste the link for you in my last reply. Here it is:

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-reset-lightrooms-preferences/

Navigate to the Lightroom Preferences.agprefs file as outlined in the article and rename it Lightroom Preferences.agprefs.OLD. This will allow you to easily delete the new file and restore the original file if the issue remains. Make sure you close and reopen LR so it can create a new Preferences file. Using the same settings if the two JPEG output files now look the same then your 'Managed by LR' print output may now be the same.
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Adrian Beasley

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Thank you, will do that.