Lightroom 2015.3: Triggering a BSOD on Windows 10 (defective system)

  • 1
  • Problem
  • Updated 2 years ago
  • Solved
  • (Edited)
LR CC 2015.3: always Crash (BOSD) when starting Develop Modul - Windows 10, i7-4790, Intel HD Graphics 4600 or NVidia Geforce GTX770 as well, 32 MB RAM, starting from SSD.
LR till 5.7.1 working fine
LR 6.0 freezing
LR 6.1 working fine
LR 6.2 and LR 6.3 freezing
graphics acceleration, face recognition, mobile synchro etc. disabled
Drivers for NVidia and Intel updated
Camera Raw SIMD-Optimierung: SSE2,AVX,AVX2
energy saving Modus disabled
I would be so happy if I were able to work with LR again!!
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like

Posted 2 years ago

  • 1
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 768 Reply Likes
A BSOD is not an application crash - it is a system or kernel fault, and means that you have encountered a bug in the OS, a bug in a low level driver, or defective hardware. Applications cannot cause a BSOD themselves, they can only trigger the BSOD by calling the OS or driver code with the bug, or using the hardware in a way that exposes it's failure.

The details of the BSOD would tell us more (like which module is failing).

The most likely cause would be the video card driver (update them from Intel and NVidia's websites).
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Thank you, Chris! Intel and NVidia Driver were updated yesterday.
May this help you?:

"System
- Provider
[ Name] Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power
[ Guid] {331C3B3A-2005-44C2-AC5E-77220C37D6B4}
EventID 41
Version 3
Level 1
Task 63
Opcode 0
Keywords 0x8000200000000002

- TimeCreated
[ SystemTime] 2015-11-24T21:55:48.924610100Z
EventRecordID 2103
Correlation

- Execution
[ ProcessID] 4
[ ThreadID] 8
Channel System
Computer W8-1

- Security
[ UserID] S-1-5-18

- EventData

BugcheckCode 292
BugcheckParameter1 0x0
BugcheckParameter2 0xffffe000ce800028
BugcheckParameter3 0xba000000
BugcheckParameter4 0x52000402
SleepInProgress 0
PowerButtonTimestamp 0
BootAppStatus 0

But, if it is a bug in the OS, why does LR 6.1 work, and 6.2/6.3 not?
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 764 Reply Likes
According to that, it looks like you had a power supply failure. That could mean a literal problem with the power supply, or a problem with the GPU, VRAM, RAM, or CPU that looks like a power supply failure (usually caused by insufficient decoupling capacitors or power feed to the device in question).

Though with this kind of error, I am amazed that you got a BSOD instead of a shutdown (usually power issues shut the system down to prevent damage).

Lightroom 6.3 uses more of the GPU, and avoids some slowdowns present in previous versions. So the suspect components would be RAM, VRAM, GPU, and the power supply itself.

The freezing behavior sounds like a video driver issue, but could also be caused by problems with RAM, VRAM, the GPU or CPU (but not the power supply).

So, first thing to do is update your video card drivers from Intel and NVidia's websites (not from Microsoft).

If your system has automatic graphics switching, then you may want to disable that while running Lightroom and Photoshop, and make sure they use the NVidia GPU only.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Well, I'm no EDP-expert and EDP is not at all my profession, but it sounds to me a little bit strange, that crashes by LR 6.3 shall be caused by an OS-bug, whereas LR 6.1 and LR 5.7.1 are working properly with the same assumed bug.

When I remember correctly, when LR 6.0 had the bug with freezing, an announcement had been made, that all edp with "AVX2" is known to cause a bug, and it would be fixed, what actually was successfully solved by LR 6.1.

So, if there is a bug in my OS, why is it not affected by LR 6.1? And is it really a bug in my OS? Or why is LR 6.3 not capable to work with it like LR 6.1? My thoughts may be stupid, but for me as a lawyer it just seems not to be very logical.
Photo of Steve Sprengel

Steve Sprengel, Champion

  • 2579 Posts
  • 323 Reply Likes
LR or other applications cannot manipulate hardware, directly. A BSOD comes from a driver when it is trying to. LR may be exercising the driver in a different way than it used to but the driver or the hardware, itself, has a problem if you're getting a BSOD.

Adobe has been changing things with the video subsystem, particularly the GPU interaction trying to get around bugs in the drivers, so it's not surprising things might be different from one version to the next.

Googling the particular error and its GUID, a few years ago I see people having problems with sound card audio drivers needing updated. Videos have audio in them, although you can't play videos in Develop so that's probably not related.

Since the BSOD event lists kernel-power I asked what the setting of the no-sleep-during-export was and maybe change that.

It's probably something else. You can read all sorts of things, here:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...
Photo of Steve Sprengel

Steve Sprengel, Champion

  • 2586 Posts
  • 323 Reply Likes
Have you turned off the LR Preference setting that keeps the computer awake during an Export?
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Thank you very much for your excellent explanations, Chris & Steve. I think I learned really a lot. But... ;-)

First, where can I turn off that LR Preference regarding the computer awake during export? I found that only under LR synchronization. Is there another button? I didn't turn it off.

Regarding the graphic drivers: I updated them from NVidia Website and from Intel Website directly, and looked for several times to get really the most current driver. I think I have them. I do not Switch automatically between them, there is always only one in use.

I updated the Realtek HD audio driver as well, and did that also for my external DAC from iFi, serving as an external soundcard.

I updated Adobe Flash, Java and Windows 10 (except the backdrawn update) and Windows Media Player.

So, from my point of amateur experience I updated really every driver that I am with my experience able to.

The only thing I didn't do, and what I read in some postings, was resetting the BIOS, because I am just a coward chicken who dares not to do that as a real edp-amateur.

So, try to understand me from my point of view: I am not an EDP-professional. I am working with Lightroom just because of having fun with making photos and digitally processing with them.

Now I have the situation, that, even if I run simply one single software on my System, one single Software, really only only one, and in one case it is LR 6.1, and all works fine. In the other case it is LR 6.3 and I get a crash every time. Or in the other case I run e. g. Corel PaintShop Pro X8, and everything is working fine, then I have the question, why is Adobe providing me with LR 6.3 with an software, which is causing my system crashing down, after having fixed the same problem some weeks ago with 6.1.

As a customer I ask you, does it makes sense to offer a software that requires the customer to spend dozens of hours to
- update several other drivers
- to think over and consider and write in several Forums
- to pay for an abonnement for a woftware which is crashing down now for months...

So, I like Lightroom so much, but, if Adobe is requiring with updates so much effort and work - which I do not really have, because I am working in a totally other profession - so, if Adobe seems to provide LR updates apparently only for freaks, nerds or insiders ;-) (sorry for that), so Adobe LR seems not to be made for a 'normal' user like me. (Okay, of course I assume LR 6.3 is working for the most normal users normally. But not for me, and I am not the only one as you can read in the forums).

If dozens of other Software on my Computer, from Microsoft, financial sccounting software, tax software, digital picture Software, jriver media 21 etc. etc. work, but only LR works with one update yes, with another update not, the next update it may be yes again, and the next update may be again not - well, then I really get the Impression, that LR may be not for such users like me, who are really willing! to get into it, but who are overcharged with these updates of a woftware which is not sold as a high specialized software for specialists, but as a mass product.

Besides the fact that my system may really have any damages: if LR 6.1 is working fine it seems to me that these damages can't be so essential that I should spent 500 euros or so in solving an problem which might be traced to everything or to nothing of what you mentioned. If Adobe is expecting this from it't customers I have my doubts if I am the right customer for Adobe - or vice versa, if Adobe is the right vendor to me.

I am very astonished about the development regarding to LR during the last 12 months. From LR 4 to LR 5 I never had such problems which in the meantime consume not only hours but days of working on it. From my point of view: if LR 4, 5.7.1, 6.1 are working fine without any crashing, and I am not willing to spend a lot of Money and time, I then either can only stop updating on Level 6.1 (while continuing paying my abo) and work with LR 6.1 furtheron, or otherwise leave the LR-world. In the end it might be that only the last option might be satisfying, though it hurts very much.

Please excuse my poor english, sorry.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 764 Reply Likes
The software normally does not require those steps - but something is wrong with your system (else you would not get the BSOD), and that has nothing to do with Lightroom. It just happens that Lightroom exposes whatever is wrong with your system.

LR may just use parts of your system (like the GPU) that other applications barely touch.

Your system has a serious problem, otherwise you would not be seeing a BSOD. We are trying to help you determine which part of the system is bad and fix it if you can.

This is entirely about a software or hardware defect in your system.
Photo of Steve Sprengel

Steve Sprengel, Champion

  • 2586 Posts
  • 323 Reply Likes
Something on your computer is failing. If you feel you must stop using LR because of this, ok.

You're right, the don't-sleep option is for Sync not for Export.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
I would say it this way: something in LR 6.3 makes my computer failing.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 764 Reply Likes
No, Lightroom is not making your system fail.
Lightroom is exposing the failure or defect that already exists in your system.

The BSOD is very clear evidence that your system has a serious problem.
And we know that applications cannot cause a BSOD.
A BSOD can be caused by bugs in the OS, bugs in drivers, or defective hardware.

Even if you stop using Lightroom, another application could expose the same defect in your system.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Okay, Chris, Thank you very much for your opinion.
Photo of Steve Sprengel

Steve Sprengel, Champion

  • 2586 Posts
  • 323 Reply Likes
Ok, fine, but it's still your computer failing, not LR failing.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
That's only your assumption, Steve, but thank you very much so far.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 764 Reply Likes
No, that's more of a fact because a BSOD cannot be caused by an application, only a bug in the OS, bug in a driver, or defective hardware.
Photo of Cees Wouda

Cees Wouda

  • 14 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Amazing, almost the same behaviour on my PC. Full correlation with Lightroom versions, only on my PC I get a sudden power shut-down, after that the PC starts up again, but of course with disastrous effect on running programs including Lightroom. I reported the problem to Adobe in July and after some tests they advised me to go back to 5.7 until 6.1 update. 6.1 worked perfectly, I skipped 6.2 and now 6.3 shows exactly the same crash-behavour. I very sympathise with Ralph Meier opinion. Adobe support has said to be working on my problem, but so far no solution.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 764 Reply Likes
A shutdown is most likely due to a power supply problem - but can be caused by bad RAM, bad motherboards, and other bad components if they are not receiving enough power to work correctly under load.

Adobe cannot solve a problem that causes a shutdown on your system -- because applications cannot cause that behavior. Only a bug in the OS, a bug in a low level driver, or defective hardware can cause that.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Well, it is very strange. LR-software people adress this problem to be a hardware-problem, but this problem occurs only when using their software. 70, 80 other software programs on my system work properly. The wording LR would not "cause" the blue screen, but would "expose the failure", which otherwise doesn't occurs, sounds to me like splitting hairs. It seems to me more to be a somehow comfortable way to neglect responsibility. After all LR 6.1 worked properly, so we do not talk about two different Softwares.

Considering all the time and cost expense I had to make Lightroom 6 running (resp. I have been waiting) this year, I tend to come to the result that LR CC/6 has become a most highly expensive software. And, considering the reactions all over the world onto the frequency of the updates to LR the confidence became damaged apparently.

Corel PaintShop Pro X8 Ultimate and ACDsee Ultimate 9 work on my system without any problems, though as per LR-People it has to have a serious defect.

I am currently loosing a good friend of mine, cause I have no more fun in working with LR.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 716 Reply Likes
No, that is not splitting hairs -- that is a very important distinction, because the problem has to be in the OS, a low level driver, or your hardware. Other software which similarly stresses your system would also trigger the same underlying problem with your system. (except none of the other software you have listed comes close to stressing your system)

This is not about a defect in Lightroom -- this is entirely about a defect in your system which lightroom stumbles across. The defect in your system remains, and can be hit by other software, even if you choose not to use Lightroom.
Photo of Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen

Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

  • 3832 Posts
  • 1270 Reply Likes
Lightroom taxes the system more than most software. For example, for many years, Lightroom's been really good at finding bad RAM, which is later verified by something like MemTest. Lightroom's not the cause of the problem, but it finds it.

It does seem like an awful coincidence that 6.1 was ok and later ones builds aren't, but that's likely to be something as simple as a change in the way a driver is accessed. For example, there were a lot of issues in 6.0 that didn't show up in other software, but it was a bug in the graphics card driver that was fixed by the manufacturers.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 767 Reply Likes
Photoshop stresses systems even more, and gets used by CPU and other hardware makers to stress-test their system designs.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Well, I am interested in

- a software which is able to work when downloaded, and not in one of the following updates

- working on my photos, not on analyzing my system for software, hardware, drivers, graphic cards, not only for hours, but really for days. There is no other software I had such huge expense of time and cost and hope.

As I already mentioned it there is software on the market which is capable to work properly even on so defected systems like mine, so, if LR is not able to keep LR 6.1 level up, some customers will leave, but, as per Steve, this is okay.
Photo of Steve Sprengel

Steve Sprengel, Champion

  • 2581 Posts
  • 323 Reply Likes
Or, if you don't have time, anymore, buy yourself a new computer that doesn't have the issues your current one has.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Sure, Steve, sure. Or I use a software that doesn't have the issues your current one has.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 764 Reply Likes
Again, the problem cannot be with the application software -- it has to be with the OS, a low level driver, or hardware.
All the software is doing is exposing an existing problem on your system, and that problem will continue to exist even if you use different software.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Well, as I understand it now, Chris, as you tell it for yourself, Lightroom and, even more, Photoshop are software which cause REAL stress to a System, apparently more stress than other software. They even become used as Benchmarks concerning stress. Okay, sounds good, LR and PS are real tough guys, real cowboys, I mean they are the real tough ones, okay :-) But could it not be that then your software is (you say:) exposing (I say: perhaps even causing?) damages which otherwise might not occur?

In another language: my so-called defect system then may not drive like a Porsche Turbo. My system may drive only like a smaller BMW. But a BMW (or Corel, ACDsee, ON1 10 etc.) is for non-professionals a good solution as well. 70 or 80 other software programs on my system work properly. Therefore, that situation that you call "damage" from Adobe point of view, seems not to be a "damage" for my other software.

Nevertheless, I will try to let my System be checked, and whether with reasonable financial effort a 18 months old i7-4790 with 2 SSDs and 32 GB RAM will match the requirements of LR 6.3. If this will not be possible I will work with my other software in peace and calm till the next investment in a new pc. Till then I am not married with Adobe.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 764 Reply Likes
No, the BSOD means something is wrong with your computer system. Not underperforming, but actually broken. The software just encounters the broken part, and doesn't (in this case cannot) cause the breakage.

You most likely do not need a new system - just to identify the broken part of your current system and update or replace that part (driver or hardware).
Photo of Simon Chen

Simon Chen, Principal Computer Scientist

  • 1385 Posts
  • 413 Reply Likes
Hi Ralph, 


Since you do have access to two GPUs on the machine (Intel HD Graphics 4600 or NVidia Geforce GTX770), you might be able to experiment which one of the two gives you better Lightroom experience. See https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/lightroom-gpu-faq.html (Additional Information Section).
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Hi Simon, thank you for your advice and your link.

I tried both alternatives, NVidia Geforce GTX 770 with deactivated Intel HD Graphics 4600 and vice versa, after installing the newest Drivers from nvidia and Intel Websites once more. It makes no difference, I receive a blue screen every time when starting the Develop Module. Sometimes it stops at once, sometimes I am able to make some changes. But starting the radial filter always causes a BSOD. Two more hours spent on trying than on working with photos.

Well, is there another software existing, which causes so much effort and trouble? Steve's opinion buy a new System if you are not willing to spend so much time on your LR is quite arrogant. And, sorry, Victoria's opinion to say that LR 6.1 running on my system was just an "awful coincidence" sounds not really better.

I hope I can have checked my System next week. I am very curious of the coming results.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Thank you for your Suggestion, Victoria.

MemTest run with 15 x 2047 MB at the same time for 3 hours. Errors: 0.
Photo of Steve Sprengel

Steve Sprengel, Champion

  • 2581 Posts
  • 323 Reply Likes
I'm providing the logical alternatives to your false belief that Adobe should fix your computer when they can't, combined with that you're unwilling to diagnose the issue, yourself: you can stop using the software that reveals the fault or you can get a new computer.

The one error message you've posted details of suggests an issue with the power subsystem including the sleep-wake function. Have you disabled ACPI in the BIOS? Have you updated your BIOS to whatever the latest update is for it? Have you reseated all cards on the motherboard? Have any of the other BSOD events given a different initial error besides kernel power?
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Steve, you may be a technical champion, but your marketing is, sorry to say that, a little bit disastrous. I hope many other customers read your posting and think over it, and I hope even more that you do not represent the real Adobe way of thinking how their customers have to be.

Do you really believe that the typical Adobe customer - and I think the mass of Adobe customers, those, who make it profitable for Adobe, are people like me, who work in a totally different profession - knows anything about ACPI and changing BIOS or replacing cards in the Motherboard? Or does Adobe people think that their customers must be able to do these things you suggest in order to make their software run at all?

I will pass your points to my EDP-dealer. I will tell him, my system is 18 months old, it's a i7-4790, with a good cooler and a 850WW power supply, 2 SSDs, 2 HDs and 32 GB RAM, it's running okay, with Windows 10, with Internet, MS Office Professional 2013, and dozens of other software properly running, but only Adobe is causing BSODs. Please look for the ACPI and the BIOS and for the kernel. He will hopefully understand your Points. But I think you, you expect apparently too much from a normal customer.
Photo of Steve Sprengel

Steve Sprengel, Champion

  • 2581 Posts
  • 323 Reply Likes
If you don't know why your system is blue-screening, and can't troubleshoot it yourself, take it to someone who can, or buy a new computer. The workaround, until you've corrected the issue, is to roll back to a slightly older version of LR software. Do you need help with how to do that?

It's not an Adobe problem that your system is blue-screening. Adobe doesn't really have an opinion about what to do to fix it.

Some of us have been nice enough to suggest things unrelated to Adobe in troubleshooting your system.

You've heard that the problem is with your hardware or low-level drivers and not Adobe software, from long-time Adobe programmers, other Adobe programmers, someone who works closely with Adobe and several Adobe outsiders who are just users.

We're not going to agree with you that the problem is Adobe software if that's what you're wanting.

From the first post until now you're expecting Adobe to make you happy when the blue-screen issue is unrelated to Adobe other than Adobe software is acting as a diagnostic to show there is an issue.

Hopefully you can determine what is wrong and can post back here what you found.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Thank you, rolling back to 6.1 is no problem. After the experience that Adobe fixed the freezing problems of 6.0 with 6.1, the fact of so many other bugs happened in 2015 and the fact that I am not the only one who has such problems it is not quite absurd to think Adobe might cause this problem again. Hopefully the local technicians here will find the reason. I will give notice of what they find out.
Photo of Robert Frost

Robert Frost

  • 392 Posts
  • 51 Reply Likes
If 6.1 (or 6.2.1?) work fine on your computer, why not stick to working with them? If you can't work out what is causing the problem with 6.3, don't use it!!

Bob Frost
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
That's a good point, Bob. I started with Lightroom at LR 4 and bought it. I bought LR 5 as well.

However, in the beginning of 2015 I ordered the Adobe Photography CC abonnement, and since then I am paying the monthly price. Monthly Price against LR/CC and PS/CC including all updates, even more updates than if you would have bought LR 6. That was the deal, Adobe was promising.

So, when I remember correctly, I have been paying for Adobe now since April, without getting what they promised: LR 6.0 didn't work. I think it was Victoria herself who attracted my attention to an information of Adobe itself, that certain systems with an AVX 2 in the system informations are well known as not working, and I should wait for LR 6.1. And indeed, LR 6.1 fixed that bug in 6.0 that was effecting my system.

For a short time I was satisfied. But LR 6.2 and 6.3: the same problem as before. No, not exactly the same. WIth LR 6.0 I gathered no blue screens, I had "only" my pc freezing. In the end same result.

So, what would you do? Would you continue paying for LR-abo 6.1, though this is not that what they promised in the contract to you? Won't you try to manage it somehow that it works on your system, too?

Sure, I can be content with LR 6.1, but how long shall I pay my abonnement without being able to share newer updates?

And when I terminate the abo-contract I will have to go back to LR 5.7.1, not to LR 6.1, because LR 5 is the last version that I bought.
Photo of Steve Sprengel

Steve Sprengel, Champion

  • 2584 Posts
  • 323 Reply Likes
What would I do? I'd fix my computer if it was blue-screening. Since you're getting your system looked at in the near future, roll back to LR 6.1.1 until you've fixed your system. To test whether it's fixed you may need to update to LR 6.3 of course.

Your subscription is an annual one paid in 12 monthly installments. As far as I know, if you terminate your subscription early, you'll be charged a early-termination penalty.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 765 Reply Likes
The system freezing and BSOD still say that something is wrong with a low level driver or the hardware.
You are trying to run Lightroom on a damaged system. It is not Lightroom's fault that your system has a defect.
And Adobe cannot fix the defect in your system. You have to fix the system defect before applications can run without tripping over the system defect.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Nobody had ever the expectation that Adobe has to fix any defects in systems of customers. The only expectation I have is to trace down the problem to it's possible reason. I hope my dealer will find out whether my system is damaged or not.
Photo of MICHAEL KIRWAN

MICHAEL KIRWAN

  • 68 Posts
  • 9 Reply Likes
I have seen a similar problem, this was with a NVIDIA GTX950. The issue was tracked down to the system Power Supply. The system power supply was only 350 watt and was pooping out due to the extra load of the GTX950.

Replaced with a 500 watt unit and all is good.

The GTX series do use a lot of power internally as well as the cooling system fans.

Maybe your GTX770 is over taxing your power supply?
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Hi, Michael. When configuring my system 18 months ago, I was aware of such experiences, too. My System is equipped with a 850W power supply and a scythe mugen cooler.
Photo of Simon Chen

Simon Chen, Principal Computer Scientist

  • 1385 Posts
  • 413 Reply Likes
Hi Ralph,

I want to confirm that you in fact ran into the system level BSOD (because we assumed that you did). Does the entire screen of your system went BSOD or just the main develop loupe view area of Lightroom's develop module that turned blue? The former meant a system level issue and later might indicate a GPU driver issue in the context of Lightroom. 

We've seen reports of blue screen in the main develop loupe view on some more recent Intel GPUs. See the posts

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-6-3-does-not-work-with-intel-hd-530-...
http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/surface-pro-4-wont-work-in-develop-module

The issue got resolved after customers picked up the Intel display driver. 
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Hi, Simon, my system turns the entire screen into blue :-(.

It's not an Adobe-Topic, but do you or does any colleagues of you know by chance whether it makes a difference between having currently only Windows 10, version 10240, and not Treshold 2 Build 1511? My system does not show this November-update yet, and TH 2 seems to fix some bugs.
Photo of Simon Chen

Simon Chen, Principal Computer Scientist

  • 1385 Posts
  • 413 Reply Likes
Ok. At the end of the first thread that I quoted, the Intel support provided a link to a beta version of of the Intel display driver update. You might try that. The release notes mentioned that it applies to Intel HD Graphics 4600. You might give it a try.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Newest (Beta-)Intel-Driver 20.19.15.4326 installed, results:

1st try: starting LR 6.3 in Library Modus, some steps, everything okay. Change to Develop: BSOD at once, without any step in Develop.

2nd try: Starting LR 6.3 in Library, some steps, everything okay. Change to Develop. BSOD after the 5th step.

3rd try: Starting LR 6.3 in Develop: no BSOD!!! but system freezing at once

4th try.: Starting LR 6.3 in Develop: BSOD at once, without any step in Develop

5th try: Starting LR 6.3 in Develop: BSOD after the 3rd step.

It is interesting that at the 3rd try "only" freezing, no BSOD.

All BSODs: WHEA_Uncorrectable_Error

Due to the fact that I have BSOD with Intel Graphics and NVidia Graphics as well I assume that my problem are not my graphic cards.

It is hard to believe that the Develop Module leads to BSOD without having done ONE single operation step: BSOD just from solely changing the module - strange!

Repair shop will check my system on friday.

But there are questions: system is 18 months old, worked with LR 5 properly for about 10 months, without any problems. Problems started with LR 6. When now any bugs in my system will be fixed, what will be in future: will it be necessary to update BIOS and every driver at every update of LR again? I am curious about it.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 764 Reply Likes
See https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...

You need the additional parameter values for the BSOD to narrow down which part of the system caused the error.

The problem could be as simple as a driver, maybe just bad RAM, or it could be as messy as a defective motherboard. We can't know without more information or running actual diagnostics on the hardware (not something you can do from software, requires specialized hardware to test).
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 764 Reply Likes
You might also want to read this forum topic of someone with a similar set of errors: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/i...
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Thank you very much, Chris, for your support. I have reached now the point where I stop my own efforts. This goes so far beyond my knowledge that every step from me might also worsen everything. I hope my repair shop will find any reasons at a reasonable Price.
Photo of Cees Wouda

Cees Wouda

  • 14 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
In my case the problem seems to be solved (still a bit cautious..). After all it was indeed HW-related. The repairshop did stress-tests and the CPU got overheated and then de system went into a shut-down. The thermal paste had dried out, they renewed that and by now I have been able to run 6.3 for a day without problems. At least I am now convinced that the problem was not in Lightroom as such. Appreciate the quality feedback on this forum, especially Chris!
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
My PC has been checked now for 2 weeks in my repairshop. They checked the hardware and they discovered no damage.

They performed the following steps:
- reset and new configuration of bios
- all cabling and mounting checked
- all temperatures are proper
- after the posting of Cees I let them exchange the thermal paste
- stress tests / benchmark tests (even gaming tests) all show top results
- all 32 GB RAM have been checked for hours
- all hardware components tested and every component replaced: no damage found
- new Installation of solely Windows 10 and LR CC on a new hard disk: crash on my PC, working on three other PCs
- test with all drivers updated, and and with built back to former versions as well
- mainboard Gigabyte GA-/97X-SLI removed, brandnew mainboard Gigabyte Z97X SOC built in

They gave up. They have no idea for whatever reason my PC continues to crash when starting LR CC Develop Modus.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 764 Reply Likes
The BSOD tells us that you have an OS bug, a low level driver bug, or defective hardware.
There are no other causes.

A decent repair shop should have found the cause in a day or two. You have a reproducible BSOD, all they have to do is identify which component is failing to cause the BSOD (something many motherboards make easy).
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
So, after LR CC causes continuous crashes though my repair shop can't find any damage in my system there is no other way than to stop my relationship with Adobe Photography and terminate the non-working abo. At least for me there is no way to work further with LR CC.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 716 Reply Likes
It really sounds like your local repair shop is not up to the task. Again, the BSOD cannot be caused by applications, only OS bugs, low level driver bugs, or defective hardware.
Really a reproducible BSOD shouldn't take more than a day or two to track down.
Photo of Robert Frost

Robert Frost

  • 392 Posts
  • 51 Reply Likes
No need to stop using LR. You can always continue working with 6.1 which you said works fine? Then see what happens when 7 comes along.

There is no necessity to always update to the latest version of something, OS, program or drivers. The old saying is that if it is not broken, don't fix it! Meaning if the update is not supplying something you need, don't update.

I've gone back to using an old version of ColorNavigator, a profiling program for Eizos. The latest versions don't work with one of my Eizo monitors, the older version works perfectly with all of them.

Does LR 6.3 work with Win 8.1 on your computer? Win 10 still does some funny things on some computers. That is why millions of people are still using older versions of Windows that work fine on their computers.

Happy Christmas,

Bob Frost
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 765 Reply Likes
Waiting won't help. He's getting a BSOD which means that there is an OS bug, a low level driver bug, or defective hardware. Application software updates cannot fix those issues.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Thank you, Chris for "waiting won't help". That makes the decision clear. I do not intend to go to x repair shops until one will come up with a real or assumed solution as long as all other software work properly on my system. As long as I work with my 18 months old computer I will stop my Adobe CC abo and go back to LR 5.7 and to CS6. If I will come back to Adobe CC on my the next PC - we will see.

So, I will return to make photos now, and withdraw from Adobe CC questions that consume an incredible amount of time. CC is cancelled.

Thank you very much for your assistance.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Hi Bob,

sounds good. But how long would YOU pay for a abo when you do not get what they promised to you? How long would YOU pay monthly rates for a software "including any updates", when the updates do not work? How many months would you pay for LR 6.1 only in the hope of an unsure perspective that you might get a working software sometime in the future? Or perhaps not? How long would YOU wait?

Since LR CC I have been paying now for about 10 months, having a working software for ca. 2 months max.. Sure, we speak only of comparatively small amounts. For me to pay, and for Adobe to loose. So no problem for Adobe to loose some small customers if the mass can work with it. It's only my problem, not any problem of Adobe: and I do not want to get angry and frustrated any more.

Happy Christmas
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
If LR 6.1 is working on my system, and 6.3 on the same system does not, I for me would not speak of a working software. There seems to be a serious difference between 6.1 and 6.3.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 764 Reply Likes
That difference is that 6.3 is using the defective part of your system.
Again, you need to fix the defective part of your computer system (be that drivers or hardware).
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
As long as all other software does not use / show any defective part of my system, I do not need to fix anything. I just stop working with LR CC.
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 764 Reply Likes
The defective part of the system is still there, and other software will trigger it as well.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
We will see.
Photo of Robert Frost

Robert Frost

  • 392 Posts
  • 51 Reply Likes
Well, I've been paying for Photoshop for about 20 years, and Lightroom for about 8 years, and the current monthly payment for both is far less than I used to pay for both, so I'm not complaining on cost grounds. IMO Photoshop alone is worth the subs, even if LR hasn't lived up to all its promises. But both 6.2 and 6.3 run fine on my computer so I can't complain too much. A lot of things could be better in LR, but what do you expect for less than the cost of a pint of beer a week? My daily newspaper costs me more than the subs for PR and PS!

As to whether Adobe's promises and claims are met, well I learnt long ago not to believe everything the marketing men say, whether its cars they are selling or programs.

But if you only use LR and not Photoshop, then the equation is different. I'd get the standalone LR6 and use 6.1 if it were me. I've got it (as well as CC) as insurance against Adobe going bust one day, or being bought by Apple!!!

Bob Frost
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
It is not a question of the cost. It is the question of whether I want to pay 12 Euros a month to Adobe, and can not work with it, or whether I want to throw 12 Euros a month out of the window and have the same effect - it's hard, but for me it is exactly this question.
Photo of Robert Frost

Robert Frost

  • 392 Posts
  • 51 Reply Likes
You can work with it! You said 6.1 works fine on your computer. It is only the recent updates 6.2 and 6.3 that don't like something in your computer. Why must you have 6.3? 6.1 costs the same as 6.3 and does much the same. Unless you have a camera that needs 6.3, you can stick with 6.1 and Photoshop CC.

As the old saying goes "Don't cut your nose off to spite your face". ;) Perhaps that doesn't translate into German humour very well.

bob Frost

PS
have you tried a different graphics card? Borrow one to try it. I gave up on the ordinary gaming NVidia cards and switched to a NVidia Quadro that are designed for work, not gaming. The gaming cards and drivers seem to be full of problems for different programs. I used to have problems with LR years ago until I switched to Quadro's that are designed to work with programs like Photoshop.
Photo of Ralph Maier

Ralph Maier

  • 43 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Well, why pay for 6.1 when I can work with 5.7? The differences there are not significant as well. And my Intel Graphics HD 4600 doesn't work either. No, there is a world besides CC, too.
Photo of Robert Frost

Robert Frost

  • 392 Posts
  • 51 Reply Likes
I agree!! If 5.7 does everything you want and works well, there is no point in upgrading. Only when you want the new features in 6, or to use a new camera or lens that is not in 5.7, is there any point in upgrading. I use cameras and lenses that are not supported in 5.7, and I like some of the new features, so it was worth my upgrading. But everyone has different hardware and needs, which is why no program will satisfy everyone all the time!!

At least you can easily go back to 5.7, since LR6.3 crashing has stopped you doing lots of edits in 6.3 which you would lose going back.

Best wishes,

Bob frost