Lightroom: Custom sort order of keywords (instead of alphabetic).

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Lightroom needs to stop re-ordering our keywords into an alphabetical order. People who are keywording for stock agencies and other purposes need to order their keywords most important and relevant first. Lightroom ruins this for us. I can't believe it's version 5 and Lightroom hasn't figured this out. Lightroom is single-handedly ruining our sales based on keyword searches. Thanks Adobe
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Leigh Williams

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Posted 5 years ago

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john beardsworth

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Isn't it only Alamy that ranks images in this way?

There is an Alamy plugin somewhere, and I suspect its author would have addressed this issue.
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Armin Staudt

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if the keywords are in lightroom no plugin of the world will help you to reorder them after lightroom delete the original order...
Essential keywords are some different. This is an extra empty text area within some agencies, like phantermedia, bigstock, alamy etc. Normally I type them by hand, its faster.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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Agreed that LR is losing the original order and that's unfortunate for what you want to do. But the Alamy plugin does appear to provide some useful features for working with keywords more efficiently with LR and Alamy.
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Armin Staudt

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I will try it, but normally you will be with more than one agency. I have about 10 or more and alamy is one of the less important one's.
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Gary Schimelfenig

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Adobe Stock REQUIRES that keywords with submitted images be organized with the words of greatest relevance to the image be first.  They even have an alert if you submit images directly from Lightroom that tells you the key words are arranged alphabetically and you need to change to their desired order or you cannot submit images!   Most other stock houses have similar requirements and I don't think there is one out there that requires or accepts keywording organized alphabetically.  What are the rest of you finding and does anyone out there have a  simple "workaround" that is effective and simple.

So why do Adobe Stock and Adobe Lightroom not talk to each other?  Or do they do this to make photographers lives miserable?

Lightroom  has always had  a horrible keywording function that I have never understood.  It places all kinds of  markers <<<  or numbers  10000460   all the while putting everything in alphabetical order.  When is Adobe Stock going to tell Adobe Lightroom to fix the keywording function?

(Edited)
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Magnus Binnerstam

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This is a highly relevant question! How can Adobe Stock require relevant order of keywords and on the other hand only sort them alphabetical in Lightroom?
Agree that it is a lot of dubbel work when uploading to agencies.
Is there a solution in sight from Adobe?
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Leigh Williams

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I'm not on Alamy. But, no, Lightroom does this as soon as you hit enter on your keywords or leave that area of LR. It's definitely a LR issue, and every answer I see to this issue on the Web is that there's nothing you can do about it. So LR needs to change it.
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john beardsworth

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Is custom sorting of keywords specified in the IPTC standard? If not, LR isn't doing anything wrong and it's really a feature request.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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See this similar feedback:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...
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Armin Staudt

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I'm have the same opinion. It would be so easy to implement a user-sort-order for keywords with the feature "let them untouched"
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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I'm not strongly in favor of this, nor strongly opposed. I don't have need of maintaining keyword ordering.
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Leigh Williams

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No, that's not what I meant, John. You said be sure and vote on this topic. I was not aware you could vote on topics, so I was asking how to do that. Also, does voting on topics give them more importance to Adobe?
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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To vote on a topic, click the +1 button at the top:

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John R. Ellis, Champion

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Adobe set up this site as the official place to submit feedback, bug reports, and suggestions. I don't work for Adobe, but I think it's reasonable to assume that votes on topics influence Adobe's product planning, at least in a small way. See this FAQ:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...
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Leigh Williams

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Thanks for all your feedback, John. I appreciate it.
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Armin Staudt

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom 5: Customer sort order of keywords (instead of alphabetic).


I like to have my own sort-order according to keywords. But Lightroom always sort them alphabetically. Exept if I paste them via Photoshop-File-Information (don't know the exact word in english, use german version)
If you do this and save the document Lightroom now export the keywords in the order you choose in PS.

It would be very fine, if the user could decide about his keyword-sortorder by himself in Lightroom.
For people who works with agencies it is an important point.
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Armin Staudt

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Maybe the aimed customer for LR is not the professional photographer?
I asked in some communities and no one uses LR.
In all other applications, Photoshop, Bridge, CaptureOne the keywords stay in the order you type it in.
LR has so many features to mange and deal with keywords, so I really don't understand why this little feature could be build in or better out.

I don't want to change to CaptureOne, but I have to, I fear.
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GEORGE PAGOMENOS

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I don't contribute to Alamy. Therefore the plug-in will not do me any good.
I believe Adobe will take care of this issue. Many thousands of stock agencies contributors are eagerly awaiting for the solution.
John, thank you very much for the feedback.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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George wrote, "I believe Adobe will take care of this issue."

Unfortunately, Adobe has made very few changes to keywording or other core library functions in the last several years, even though there's been lots of feedback here and the user-to-user forums about desired bug fixes and improvements. It would be great if they started improving the LR library, but I'm not holding my breath.
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GEORGE PAGOMENOS

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If in the long run Adobe keeps ignoring the keywording problem in Lightroom, I will definitely switch to other solutions. My time is valuable. I can not afford doing the same task twice. One time in Lightroom and then one more time for each stock agency I contribute to.
In the forthcoming Lightroom updates Adobe must give the users the possibility to select the keywords order.
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john beardsworth

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How many other stock agencies utilize the keyword order? It's a business practice, rather than an iptc standard which Adobe would observe, and I'd question if the practice is widespread .
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Armin Staudt

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It would be enough if one important agency organized it in this way. It cost hours and hours of work ... On the other hand, if you keywording in PS or Bridge the keywords will remain in the sort-order you want. So Adobe is not able to hold their own standard. There is really no need to force all stock-photographer to stay away from LR.
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john beardsworth

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But they don't force *all* stock photographers to stay away, and Lightroom's ethos was to be a ground-up design - previous examples like PS/Br are not a standard. So which other agencies utilize keyword order? How widespread is this practice?
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Rob Cole

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I think you could *almost* accomplish the goal now by doing this:

* Pre-pend a 0-padded number to keep them ordered the way you want.
* Remove the prefix upon export using Jeffrey Friedl's Metadata Wrangler.

I say "almost" because Jeffrey's plugin requires each prefix be specified individually (pattern matching not supported), which may be prohibitive, or maybe not (?)

That said, if the concept is sound (keywords are orderable using the prefix, and order can be maintained by exiftool upon export), then one could request Jeffrey implement pattern matching, and if design not making that easy (or he's too busy..), maybe somebody else could add that to a different plugin, e.g. me to Exportant.
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Eugenio Marongiu

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Keywords in custom sort order are necessary! Everyone should choose in what order want keywords, not only for stock photography but in general! Adobe should correct this as soon as possible, it is very important for photographer in digital era! LR is the better software! This is, for my opinion, the only necessary thing to add.
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fotorob

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There are at least three stock agencies that require the keywords sorted by relevancy: Alamy, Fotolia and Panthermedia.

So this is not a single use case, but a nneded feature for professional stock photographers...
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Armin Staudt

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iStock, pixta, ...
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john beardsworth

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Great to get that info, finally. Do you know any more details? For example, do they use all the keywords to assess relevance or only (say) the first 5 keywords. I wouldn't bet on Adobe implementing this (not least as I think it would force them to add other features such as a switch between alpha and non-alpha sorting) but more detail might allow a plug-in to provide a solution that's better and sooner. You might even ask the stock agency to create their own LR plug-in - it might be self-interest....
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fotorob

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@John: It depends on the stock agencies. Fotolia ranks the first 7 higher, Panthermedia the first 8, Alamy has a system of different degrees, not sure about the other ones mentioned...
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Rob Cole

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+pictage (requires sorted keywords too).
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Armin Staudt

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I think it's not the question if an agency it need's and how. There is really no reason to force a photographer how he has to manage his keywords. Photoshop does not, Bridge not and ie. captureone also not.

I have over 20 agencies and each of these has a different way to deal with keywords. So I think it would be very difficult to change LR in this direction.

The switch between apha- and non-alpha would be great, also a tool where you can drag and drop the keywords in the correct order - also to mange older photos with alpha-sorting.

For the motivation of adobe, if a small agency like pixta has 141.000 contributors you can imagine how many potential customers you can find in this world.

I love LR very much and work with it many hours a day, but all the hours I need for the workaround for this "bug" are not necessary.

(again sorry for my bad English ;)
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Carlos Santos

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My suggestion is that a "Custom order" option should be added to the "Keyboarding" LR panel.

Entered keywords would be ordered alphabetically by default but the user would have the option to: overing the pointer on each keyword would highlight it and from that point clicking and dragging would automatically enable the "Custom order" and the keyword position would change according to position where the mouse click is released.

I believe it would be a easy feature to implement and that would solve all the users needs.
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Marco Glijnis

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Is there no one who want to create/write a plugin for this? I believe that people want to pay for this also.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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I've thought about adding a feature to maintain keyword order to my Any Tag plugin. But it would take a fair amount of effort to work around various limitations of the LR SDK, and I'm pretty sure I would sell no more than a handful of additional licenses.
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tõnu rääk

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Why not do it regardless how many additional licenses you sell?
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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My time is limited, as I'm sure yours is too.
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Laurent Hamels

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Dear Lightroom,

Could you please add the option of custom sort order of keywords or not changing the order of keywords put together in a smart manner by your users: amateurs and professionals?
As long as this "option" is not in place as it is in bridge - your bridge software! - and CaptureOne, I cannot buy into your system as a professional photographer.

Thank you for letting us know when you move forward - we seem to be a more important community as you may think!

Laurent Hamels - STUDIO GRAND OUEST on 6 world stock agencies
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Timo Bierbaum

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"I can't believe it's version 6 and Lightroom hasn't figured this out." Or is it just ignorance? Considering that the automatic sorting is a build in feature that required additional programming efforts it would be a 2 Minute programming task excluding this "feature" by adding a checkbox. By the looks of it professional photographers requirements don't count for Adobe.Ignorance is bliss ... I'm seriously disappointed.
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john beardsworth

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As far as I can see, the order in which you write keywords is not stored anywhere in LR's catalogue. That's partly because LR is a database, but also because keyword order isn't part of the IPTC standard which Adobe would factor into the design. Modifying the catalogue isn't a 2 minute job.

I've been experimenting with a plugin which does the job, but the workflow isn't ideal. Again, it's not a 2 minute job.
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Armin Staudt

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The same with me. Frustrating this kind of ignorance.
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Julian Schaldach

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Really frustrating. It can't be that difficult to add custom keyoword ordering to LR?
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john beardsworth

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It's neither impossible nor as easy as you might imagine.
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praweena pratchayakupt

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Why Lightroom not Improve about this problem, the programer just improve this program for customer and let them choose that they want LR to arrange the keword or not.
I think if Lightroom want to fixed this it is very easy and all stockphotographer over the world will appriciate this!
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praweena pratchayakupt

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom - allow custom keyword order.

Lightroom is very good programe,just 1 little problem should be solve.
About the keyword, can you make it not arrange by alphabet.I want to arrange it by myself.If you can solve this problem all stock photographer over the world will appreciate it!
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Heiko Knaack

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom: Ability to order/sort keywords manually.

I ́d like to know, if there are any thoughts on implying a new function to lightroom to sort the key words manually. Many stock photographers would be very very glad if they could sort the keywords given to a picture in a free order. Are you planning kind of these functions?
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Johannes Bohnacker

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Absolutely agree. This is one of the main annoyances in Lightroom. If Lightroom wouldn't have such an effective sharpening algorithm and if there weren't a few very useful plug-ins available, I'd not use it at all. I'm missing Aperture!!! Maybe I'll just use MediaPro together with several converters in the future.