Lightroom: Gradient Eraser Request

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  • Idea
  • Updated 4 years ago
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  • (Edited)
Would love to be abel to erase away gradients in Lightroom. For example the gradient is great on straightforward landscapes such as lakes with an even horizon. But if there is a mountain or a tree the gradient effect looks artificial. I need to be able to areas or conceal areas where I do not want the gradient effect would be fabulous!
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PSDiva

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  • frustrated

Posted 7 years ago

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Sean Phillips

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I think this is much better handled by brushes instead of gradients. What happens when you move or resize a gradient that's been partially erased?
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PSDiva

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A brush and a gradient are very different and I was hoping that erasing could mask the gradient - so that an option to lock the mask into place would allow a user to shift or adjust the gradient as needed.
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Sean Phillips

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Brushes and gradients are different, but a gradient can be quickly simulated using a brush by adjusting the Flow and controlling how often you brush each area of the image.

Locking the mask in place would work. That hadn't occurred to me. I was thinking that the mask would move with the gradient, but it doesn't need to. Good thinking!
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Rob Cole

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Although one can theoretically do everything with a brush that one can do with a gradient (with or without the gradient eraser), it would sometimes be more convenient to be able to use a gradient and erase some stuff. Couple this with some killer auto-masking technology - so I could guide Lightroom to "perfectly" avoid foreground objects and such, and we'd really be having things...
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TK

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Just to clarify what may not be explicitly clear to all visiting here:

It is possible to undo the effect of a graduated filter with an adjustment brush (by using the inverse settings of the graduated filter for the brush and careful "graduated" brushing using the flow/density settings) and the brush strokes have the advantage of staying in the same place even when the filter is moved around (e.g., they will still be covering the same mountain top that hasn't moved), but when the graduated filter is moved/stretched, the "counter" brushes will no longer match the previous filter effects. A compensation by adjusting the brush effect settings is cumbersome and will not always work.

What PSDiva is essentially asking for is a way to achieve irregularly shaped graduated filter masks. Moreover, the FR implies that it will be possible to change the graduation (graduation slope and extent) independently from the position/shape of the erased part.

Ultimately, graduated filters and adjustment brush strokes (and potentially more tools in the future) should be combinable to create arbitrarily shaped and arbitrarily graduated masks which then can be used to apply any effect from the development panels (not just a select few available from the adjustment brush and graduated filter panels). It seems like layers (as in Bibble 5) would be a useful concept, but perhaps LR can support them less explicitly than Bibble 5 or PS do.

I feel that adjustment brush stroke sets (associated with adjustment brush pins) can also be regarded as layers but LR does a great job of dealing with the "layers" implicitly. I believe the "adjustment pin" concept could be extended to encompass more complex masks without importing a "layer paradigm" into LR's user interface.
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Rob Cole

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Well put TK. And, I too see this as part of a bigger picture: How can one target adjustments just to desired stuff and not others? In Photoshop, there are magic wands, with tolerances..., and in Nx2, there are U-points, with no control options (except more U-points). Presently in Lightroom, there are two auto-masking technologies:
1. brush auto-mask, that tries to confine brush strokes to "like" areas.
2. sharpen masking, that tries to confine sharpening to "edgy" areas.
Personally, I am hoping that Adobe will come up with a controllable auto-mask technology for Lightroom, that allows user intervention whilst applying adjustments, to specify a whole host of criteria along the way to guide the mask. In the case of a gradient, one could then simply define a mask, then drop a gradient over it. So, really, the root is the ability to define arbitrary masks in Lightroom, subsequently applying an adjustment gradient is just the icing on the cake... So, design-wise its about de-coupling the masking from the local brush - let us define general masks, then decide what adjustments to overlay - gradient, or paint, or "globals" (in quotes, because once masking is generally available, all globals are essentially local).
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MarcusT

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I concur, we need brush-applied masks which remain relative to the image, which we can then selectively apply/link to one or more gradients.
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Jon Miller

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YES! I want to see a combination of all masking techniques available in Lightroom (graduated filters and adjustment brushes), Photoshop (pen tool, magic wand, whatever the even more impressive one also under the W shortcut is called (sorry, too much running to open Photoshop right now to remind myself), the different gradient types (not just linear, but also radial, conical, and whatever the double-linear one is called) which can be applied to layer masks, and the various forms of generating a mask by color or brightness or both), the nik software U-point tools, and more. Create it by any of those methods, and edit by any of those methods. (Let me drag a linear gradient mask across a sky, then either a radial mask or a U-point around the sun itself, then pen or brush (depending on the situation) to remove foreground objects from the mask.

(Yes, I know that I can do a radial mask with the adjustment brush tool, but there is a big difference between that and a U-point mask or even a radial mask where you can just click and drag to change the size of it. With the adjustment brush I have to set the size and feather controls before clicking, and you can't just adjust those after you click. You have to undo or delete it and do it again with new settings. This is precisely the opposite of an intuitive solution. I'm grateful that we have those tools in the program, I'd just like to see more for special situations.)
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Rob Cole

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My biggest hope for Lr4, is for Adobe to come up with a killer (auto)masking technology (that includes user intervention all along the way, for "hinting" to the auto-mask, as well as explicit manual intervention to adjust imperfect masks), that can be used with the adjustment gradient, or the globals (making everything now locally applicable). Add the ability to do this in layers, (or "adjustment step pseudo-layers", like Nx2, and we'd really be having things...
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Rob Cole

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PS - Nik's U-points are kinda-nice, because sometimes they select just what you want. When that happens its very exciting. However, all too frequently they get too much or not enough. In the former case, you're only recourse is to drop "anti-selection" U-points, to kinda block the selection U-points. Sometimes this works perfectly - and when it does its very exciting. All too often however, it doesn't! Anyway, its my hope that Adobe will innovate a revolutionary auto-masking technology. Maybe make this technology available in Photoshop too, and put Nik out of business ;-}
R
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Betsey Hansell

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I agree with Katrin Eismann's post. She requested improvements in the gradient tool including allowing us to:
Control the shape - at least include radial; be able to erase parts of the gradient (that is really, really important to me.); name the pins - on both gradients and brushes.

Without the ability to erase parts of the gradient, I only use it on landscapes with horizontal horizon lines, or on the edges to create a vignette effect, and we already have that.

Making the gradient more flexible would be fantastic.

Thanks,
Betsey

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom 4: Improve gradient tool.
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Jon Miller

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It had never even occurred to me to be able to name the pins! BRILLIANT! And SO easy to implement!

Adobe, I can't think of a reason why at least this aspect couldn't make it into LR4 Final. Particularly since we have to do so much layering and stacking of different adjustment brushes and gradients to accomplish what we really want to with this tool. The ability to label these adjustments for future reference would really help.
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Adrian Malloch

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Graduated filters and brush filters are great in LR3 and much better in LR4b. However, I think that the graduated filters deserve the sort of control that the brush filters have.

Specifically, that once the grad filter is added, it could be further adjusted by adding to and especially removing from, with a brush tool.

For it to work, the brush tool would only affect the Alpha-channel that the grad filter created and not the underlying image.

Adobe could engineer it so that a right-click over the selected grad filter pin would create a (linked) brush option. When the option is selected, the view switches to a Graduated Filter Overlay (by default with the red mask active to remind you that you are adjusting the grad filter), and the tool has switched from the grad tool to an adjustment brush that only works on the grad filter.

You add to the grad filter by brushing, or by holding option/alt-brush to remove the grad filter. Using the flow/density modify tools would give great control in the same way that brushing a mask in a Photoshop adjustment layer does.

If you want to work on the grad filter directly (without the Overlay mask) then just keying O will switch to that view. Right clicking the grad filter pin gives you the option to switch back to standard grad filter behaviour.

If you now re-adjust the grad filter, the brush adjustments would need to stay in place relative to the pixels, not the grad filter.

If a further grad filter is placed over the brushed in area, a right click on the pin could load the previously placed alpha-channel brush adjustment so that a carefully brushed mask doesn't have to be created from scratch again.

Maybe this is complicating things too much, but hey! Sounds feasible and useful. Right?

Another useful addition to the adjustment brush is to have Shift-clicks to do contiguous straight lines, consistent with the way shift-brushes work in Photoshop. Very useful for deselecting grad-filtered or brushed areas around buildings and products.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Add more control with Graduated filters in LR.
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Yosamit3Sam

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Fantastic idea!
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Harold Limbert

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I often take natural light pictures in a stage setting. The subject is properly exposed but part of the background is overexposed. I usually go to Photoshop to blend the exposers. It would be much easier to apply the filter in Lightroom and erase the properly exposed part.

HL

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Erase part of a graduated filter in Lightroom..
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Jeffrey Rueppel

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Dynamic fitting of NDG filters would be a great feature for landscape photographers.
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Jeffrey Rueppel

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Dynamically fitting NDG filters would be a really useful for landscape photographers.
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J Jay Ladouceur

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom: Ability to mask Radial & Graduated Filters.


radial filter suggestion
I've been trying to use the radial filter to isolate the subject then apply a graduated blur to the background. This is for some older photos taken with a camera/lens combo that didn't isolate the subject real well.

I've watched the videos on it and used it ...but find it of limited use.
To me it would be a whole lot better if Adobe could marry the adjustment brush with this filtering system. The brush is great in that it quite accurately enables one to make a selection. If one could do that and have the option of using it as the mask for the radial blur ...it would be extremely useful in such situations. Currently the radial blur really doesn't work well for that.

I end up flipping the photo into PS, duplicating the background layer, selecting the subjects I want in focus (pretty quick now that the quick selection tool works so well) and I save that selection on a new layer. Then go back to the background copy and using the same selection ...content aware fill it then blur that layer using whichever blur filter is best for whatever that background happens to be. The subject is then isolated and the blur layer can have a gradient applied to it to fade it in nicely.
The radial filter in LR has so much potential for this if it could be applied to a brushed selection ...it would be awesome.
Anyone have any influence on the programming? If so and if you agree ...I hope this will get passed along.

Thoughts?
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Yes, I know it's not specifically available for Lightroom, yet. In any case, I thought I'd share it with you in case you have access to PS CC, the time to experiment and so you know what's in the pipeline for future raw processing. We welcome your early feedback on this feature.

Camera Raw 8.5 RC and DNG Converter 8.5 RC Now Available

http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjourn...

Camera Raw 8.5 introduces the following new features for Photoshop CC customers:

Modify Graduated and Radial Filter masks with a brush:

  • After adding or selecting a Graduated or Radial Filter instance, click the new ‘Brush’ mode (next to existing ‘New’ and ‘Edit’ mode buttons) to reveal brush controls that allow you to modify the selected mask.

  • Use the ‘Brush +’ and ‘Brush -’ icon buttons in the brush controls pane to add to or erase from the selected mask.

  • Press the ‘Clear’ button to remove all brush modifications from the currently selected mask.

  • When a Graduated or Radial Filter instance is selected, Shift-K can be used to enter and leave brush modification mode.


Mask visualization is now available for the Graduated and Radial Filters. Use the Mask checkbox at the bottom of the Local Corrections pane or press ‘Y’ to toggle the mask overlay.
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Rob Cole

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Sorry for not being clear. My question is: will there be an Lr5.5 RC which includes the ACR 8.5 RC, or will it not be available in Lightroom until 5.5's final release - thanks.
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Hi Rob, sorry, I don't currently have any specifics around an RC for LR at this time.
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Rob Cole

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Thanks.
R
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Arnold Bartel

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I'm quite disappointed and irritated that this important feature didn't find it's way from ACR 8.5 to LR 5.5...
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Rikk Flohr, Champion

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From the Lightroom Queen's site: "They should be in Lightroom 6.0. Being able to add new features at any time is one of the benefits of the CC subscription system. Lightroom can't add new proper features between main releases (except sometimes the x.1) due to accounting regulations on perpetual licenses."
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Rory Hill

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You know an organization is on the way down when the accountants start to run things.
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Rob Cole

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Tee-hee...