Lightroom/Camera Raw: Allow Crop Settings in Presets

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I would love to be able to set "crop" presets. I am a notoriously crooked shooter, and if I could have a preset that corrected my natural tendency for crooked images it would be awesome!
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KellyS

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Posted 8 years ago

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John R. Ellis, Champion

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The Any Crop plugin lets you define crop presets, with both relative aspect ratios as well as exact sizes (pixels, inches, or centimeters).  (The Xmp Crop plugin mentioned above is no longer available, unfortunately.)
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Daniel Kaar

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Thanks for your help, and it would indeed relieve some of the pain. I just checked it out and although it is a good work-around, I think it can't compete with an in-product solution, which also could be combined with development presets.
And it would be such a low hanging fruit to do.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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"I think it can't compete with an in-product solution, which also could be combined with development presets."

Agreed.
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RICHARD CASSEL

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Yes, and while we are all holding are collective breaths waiting for Adobe to provide a simple solution to an easy-to-address problem, could I also request an on-screen aspect ratio indicator. Sometimes I will crop a picture to specific content and arrive at an unusual aspect ratio, e.g. 1.97:1. This would be very useful when creating the same aspect ratio on other pictures that I want to display as a series.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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"This would be very useful when creating the same aspect ratio on other pictures that I want to display as a series."

Very much agreed that displaying the custom aspect ratio as you adjust the crop could be helpful. 

The closest you can come with built-in features is to do add Cropped Dimensions to View > Loupe Info using View > View Options.  This shows the cropped pixel dimensions, which can be entered as Custom crop dimensions in the Crop tool.  Unfortunately, the Cropped Dimensions are only updated after you close the Crop tool, which seems like a strange oversight.

Also, you can copy your custom crop from the first photo to the other photos in the series using Settings > Copy/Paste Settings.
(Edited)
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John March

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled LIGHTROOM: Request to allow cropping as a preset that can be applied during impor....

It would be great if I could have a square 1x1 crop applied as a preset to images as they are imported into Lightroom. I shoot all my images in square on camera, but they are changed back once they are imported into Lightroom. Please consider adding this feature. I would upgrade simply for it! Thank you very much! I appreciate all your hard work!
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Robert Cullen

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Cropping an image is such an arbitrary thing- how is software (in a preset) to know what you want in the 1:1 crop?
To accept a default 1:1 You could simply-
1. Select all images in the folder after importing.
2. Press "R"
3. Click the "Auto Sync" switch on.
4. Set the Crop tool to 1x1
5. Click [Done]
Done!
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sangean

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Those are 5 extra steps that I can live without. 

As a working photographer, I shoot anticipating the crop I have to make. All I'm waiting for is Adobe to get the feature in. But if they can speed up Lr for the 21st century that would be a start too.
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Shane Betts

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The bulk of my work is real estate. Deliverables, by default, are 4:3 not 3:2 that my camera shoots. I shoot hundreds of shots per day and having a 4:3 crop in my develop preset upon import would save me hours.

I've seen a bunch of "But what if the preset cropped your picture wrong?" nonsense. Puleeze! They're my shots. How about I get to make the decision how I want the treat them?  It's not like the crop is baked in. When it's wrong, I'll fix it but, I'm a professional, 90% are framed in camera for the delivery.

These kinds of unaddressed bugs are costing us and our businesses money. Can we just sort it already?!
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Robert Cullen

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Those are 5 extra steps that I can live without.
I can crop every photo in my library (thousands) in under 5 seconds using the steps in my post above. ('Hours"...never!!)
Hard to believe that many people are so time poor that 5 seconds is critical. Granted I am not a professional so 'time' is my own for which I am not paid.
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sangean

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You obviously do not run a busy photography business, but is fine. You are entitled to your view.

Others will differ. Can't understand why it bothers some people so much if we get a functionality we desperately need, simply because they think they don't have any need for it.
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Shane Betts

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"I am not a professional"

You're entitled to your opinion Robert but, for those of us trying to feed our families, it's kind of pointless and disrespectful.

This is why we need a "Pro" app and an "Enthusiast" app.
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Robert Cullen

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we need a "Pro" app and an "Enthusiast" app.
Well said. I agree fully. Let's hope your needs are met with future versions.
Sorry Shane- disrespect never intended.
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Shane Betts

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Idea: Please allow Crop Ratio as an option in Develop/Import presets..

Mods, please don't roll this into another thread. I know it's been posted before - by me and others - but it needs to be read and understood by Adobe. 

Adobe, could we please have a Crop Ratio checkbox when saving Develop/Import presets - soon.

Crop Ratio can be applied across a selection in the Library module so I don't understand why we are forbidden from saving that one step and applying it during import. It makes no sense!

My camera shoots 5:4 but my market demands 4:3. Please save me time and allow me to make that little bit more money from my struggling business by allowing me to automate this step.
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Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

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While I understand your request not to combine thread, this would be detrimental to your request. Additional, multiple and recent posting does not aid the cause of a feature nor make it more visible.

Your feature request will carry more weight when added to the aggregate thread. By itself, it runs the risk of being buried. 
(Edited)
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Shane Betts

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Thanks for your "help" Rikk.

 I note this thread is six years old now with no progress whatsoever on what should be a very simple bit of coding for Adobe. 

Please enlighten me on how detrimental things could be when compared to six years of inaction.
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sangean

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Like others I'm also desperately waiting for this basic functionality to be added.

I bought Lightroom when it was aimed at professional photographers with features to suit. These days the direction seems to be towards useless gimmicks for smart phones etc at the expense of more useful tweaks to suit those that use Lightroom to earn a living.
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Shane Betts

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You'd think, with the amount of money Creative Cloud generates for Adobe, it would be within their scope to have someone on staff who could be addressing professional bug fixes and features. Apparently Adobe disagrees.
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Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

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"Please enlighten me on how detrimental things could be when compared to six years of inaction."  

Now that is part of the authoritative thread on this feature request, any information provided by Adobe goes to everyone who has this interest. I don't have to hunt for scattered threads to reply to them all...
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As you throw your support behind a request such as this, I would ask you all a few questions. 

How would you expect this feature to work if:

The Crop Preset is saved on a very large image 50 MP and then applied to a small image? 
The Crop Preset is saved on a Landscape orientation image and then applied to a Portrait image? 

I see a lot of people clamoring for the feature but little in specifically how they want it to work. If I have a 3:2 landscape original and build a crop preset that crops 5:4 (with the crop also in a landscape orientation) - save it as a preset and then apply it to a 4:3 aspect ratio image which is in Portrait orientation - what should happen? 

Does the Crop Preset save only Aspect Ratio? 
Does it shift orientation as the image shifts orientation? (Landscape/Portrait)
Start at the Top Left Corner (of the image? of the crop?) 
Center the crop to the image? 
Fill the crop to frame if the image's pixel dimensions fail to match? 

I would like to see some discussion on expected behavior from those of you who need this functionality. Also describe how your workflow would be impacted - what types of images/sessions does this work well for? 

More information is always better. 
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makespictures

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Hi Rikki,

Thanks for asking us further about this, I first requested this feature years ago.

If you have  regular clients and they all have very specific aspect ratios to shoot for, the crop tool fails to keep this information organised. The list of crop aspect ratios is no use when a client is standing over your shoulder asking you to apply their web banner crop on an image (it only stores the last 6 or so custom ratios and if that can be converted into an existing ratio it does that automatically) - I want to go to presets and select "Client A - home page banner". Currently that information is not stored in a way that is easy to apply on the fly.


please see my answers below : 

Q - The Crop Preset is saved on a very large image 50 MP and then applied to a small image? 
A - I wouldn't have this situation, interested in aspect ratios only. Applying the crop to the image centrally would be a great start. 

Q - The Crop Preset is saved on a Landscape orientation image and then applied to a Portrait image? 
A - again, apply the crop centrally. 

Q -I see a lot of people clamoring for the feature but little in specifically how they want it to work. If I have a 3:2 landscape original and build a crop preset that crops 5:4 (with the crop also in a landscape orientation) - save it as a preset and then apply it to a 4:3 aspect ratio image which is in Portrait orientation - what should happen? 
A - I'd crop for the long edge (regardless of portrait or horizontal) and apply the crop centrally.

Q - Does the Crop Preset save only Aspect Ratio? 
A - yes, most people would adjust dimensions on export of the image. 

Q -  Does it shift orientation as the image shifts orientation? (Landscape/Portrait)
A - yes

Q - Start at the Top Left Corner (of the image? of the crop?) 
A - centre of image, not crop

Q - Center the crop to the image? 
A - yes

Q - Fill the crop to frame if the image's pixel dimensions fail to match? 
A - this could get messy, I'm sure we could deal with sync to aspect only and deal with pixel dimensions on export.

Q -I would like to see some discussion on expected behavior from those of you who need this functionality. Also describe how your workflow would be impacted - what types of images/sessions does this work well for? 
A - I touched on this earlier, if you are working professionally  you need to remove as many obstacles as possible on a shoot. Back calculating whether a crop of 2.1 x 2.97 is the same as an  8.5 x 11 crop whilst a client is watching is not fun and that's brain power I'd rather use to solve other problems on a shoot. While I am shooting clients ask me to go through and apply 4 different aspect ratios to an image so that they can see how it works for different outputs. Having a folder of a clients different aspects in the presets folder would be so useful.

Happy to answer any other questions. 
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Shane Betts

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Thanks for jumping in Rikki. Good to see some involvement. Let me start by saying I second everything makespictures has just said.

Currently we can select a group of images in Library mode and then select a Crop Ratio from the "Quick Develop menu. BAM! Done.  Could we at least have THAT available in Develop and Import presets? No reinvention, no complex algorithms, just THAT menu item as a preset. Please. 

Many of your above questions seem to be based on the notion that the finished crop would be " baked in" and this is simply not the case. Of course we will tweak the individual cropping of shots as we grade.

I feel that one of the sticking points in many of these unaddressed feature requests is the misconception that users are looking to Adobe to auto finish our shots for us - in this case for the software to "compose" my shot for me. And, as Adobe attempt to capture more of the "enthusiast" market, perhaps that may make it onto your radar.

 But I think that, for most professionals, this is the exact opposite of what we want. I think many pros just want the software to bulk apply a number of time consuming "apply-to-all" settings to bring everything to a ballpark situation for us to start the grade. This can save us hours and hours and many thousands of dollars.

Many of us run businesses, like real estate photography, school photography etc. where our delivery requirements are fixed, our margins are low and where we just need to get things done and out the door as quickly as possible to earn a living. It's not all about art (I'm very sorry to have to say) and I wouldn't use this, or many other presets, for my personal work. But for what pays the bills, I just want the software to speed up the process.
(Edited)
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Daniel Kaar

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Love to see some movement here :)

Agreed with all above. What I would like to do is to set more than 5 custom crops and label them (just like what do you with metadata presets, import presets, etc.) so I don't need to remember more than 100 social media crops (and then there is different Wordpress themes etc.): https://www.godaddy.com/garage/webpro/design/facebook-profile-picture-size-and-more/
As mentioned above, I think it would be valuable to additionally set the following to any crop preset:
-) orientation sensitive / enforce orientation (landscape vs. portrait - many times it makes sense to keep the orientation but for the use case above it does not)
-) aspect ratio only / enforce pixel crop (again, most of the time aspect ratio is enough, but in the use case above it isn't... - if you apply enforced pixel crop on an image which is too small I would fall back to aspect ratio only, plus pixel sizes can be taken care of when exporting the photo)
-) as mentioned above I would expect the crop to be applied to the center of the photo (but also there, just like watermarking, you could make that customizable)
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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Daniel, the Any Crop plugin provides the options you describe (plus others, all based on use-cases provided by users).   Definitely not nearly as convenient as having it built-in to LR, but it provides the flexibility and can get the job done.
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Daniel Kaar

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Thanks John, but we had this discussion half a year ago, in this very thread and my respond to this would still be the same ;)
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Shane Betts

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And this is the problem we face with forums. A very simple feature request soon becomes overwhelmed with people dreamlisting and Adobe goes off, scratching their heads and having meetings about how they can write an algorithm that can read the minds of every user and automatically correct wonky camera work whilst taking deliberate Dutch tilts into account and six years later the simple addition of a checkbox in a develop preset to do what can already be done with a menu item remains unimplemented. 

Where's the facepalm emoji?
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Shane Betts

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Rikk Flohr? Any more feedback from Adobe?
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Alec Hamilton

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I need to know my pixel count.  How hard would it be to have a little  value ladder come up that tells you the size of your crop? Accurate pixel measurements of crops!

I need accuracy not aspect ratio. Aspect ratio's significance is a relic of the past for me when it comes to cropping photos. Aspect ratio is a worry for video production in my world. I don't often develop timelapse movies from lightroom, so aspect ratio isn't much of an issue for me.

As it is, I have to manually crop, view the dimensions in windows explorer, delete the file and re-crop until the pixel dimensions are perfect. It's a pain in the rear and it takes a long time. I'm pretty sure LR could add dimensions of crop.

 I don't develop in a dark room and I don't sell prints. My photos end up on tablets, cell phones, websites, and programming installations. Every photo has its place, and each dimension should be custom. 3:2 1:1 are meaningless. I need 455px by 869 px or whatever it is for the current installation

"Rikk Flohr, Official Rep "


How would you expect this feature to work if

The Crop Preset is saved on a very large image 50 MP and then applied to a small image? 
The Crop Preset is saved on a Landscape orientation image and then applied to a Portrait image? 

I see a lot of people clamoring for the feature but little in specifically how they want it to work. If I have a 3:2 landscape original and build a crop preset that crops 5:4 (with the crop also in a landscape orientation) - save it as a preset and then apply it to a 4:3 aspect ratio image which is in Portrait orientation - what should happen? 

Does the Crop Preset save only Aspect Ratio? 
Does it shift orientation as the image shifts orientation? (Landscape/Portrait)
Start at the Top Left Corner (of the image? of the crop?) 
Center the crop to the image? 
Fill the crop to frame if the image's pixel dimensions fail to match? :.............."

I would expect size of actual crop in pixels X and pixels Y would work forever regardless of aspect or anything else. There is no reason why this isn't already a feature and why I cannot save my exact pixel dimensions of my crop,( if your devteam cannot figure out how to maintain the crop's position as a preset, you should at least be able to hold onto the pixel dimensions as a preset).

I'm coming at this from a creative coding place. I need to precisely know the pixel dimensions as images have homes in installations with specific pixel dimensions.

Specifically I want it to work by giving a realtime readout of crop dimensions in pixels  as I press and hold the cursor during a crop.

I also want the crop dimensions in pixels to be remembered by lightroom, and I want to save it as a preset.

(Edited)
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Shane Betts

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I know the pixel dimensions of my deliverables and they're stored in my export presets. I'm not sure how I could compose for pixel dimensions in the camera. Crop factor; easy. I can shoot 36MP, 24MP or 16MP,  on full frame, DX or on video and I always know my crop ratio.  I know (and have my cameras marked up for) the crop ratio(s) that fit my export file dimensions so it's just a matter of exporting in the various sizes.

I can't give my clients RAW files anyway and, even if I were to shoot JPEGs (when hell freezes over) any grading I've done would be lost if I simply copied those files, so the export process is mandatory. Crop ratio in, pixel dimensions out.
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Patrick Garrett

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I have a Canon 5Ds 50mp full frame camera. I have a Sigma 10-20 lens designed for a crop camera. When placed on my 5Ds at 10mm the outside is highly vignetted. If I remember to set the crop aspect ratio to 1:1.6 before I shoot, LR imports the file and crops it automatically to the proper area in the center of the image that is truly 10mm wide (the whole vignetted image is actually there). I end up with a 20mp image taken from the center in the 3:2 ratio.  I just want to save that center crop for when I don't set it in the camera first. Seems to me the only time such a crop preset makes sense is to crop the FULL size image down to the preset values (exact pixel count and ratio). But others might think differently. I can use Autosync in the develop module where crop is applied to all I have selected, so I have a relatively easy work around. I was just surprised that I could SAVE the exact crop settings in develop, but can make that SAVE that as a preset.
(Edited)
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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Patrick, your use case makes perfect sense and is simple: Make the preset behave just as if you had used Copy/Paste Settings or Sync.  That's a simple behavior that non-advanced users can understand, and which I think Adobe should implement.

(My Any Crop plugin, targeted to advanced users, addresses many different use cases, including exact-pixel crops, but at the expense of a much more complicated user interface.)
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MW

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The feature could have multiple options to allow people to use it the way that it benefits their workflow.  At the very least, it should behave exactly like the "sync" function works for the crop setting.  In my workflow, I have a very specific aspect ratio, regardless of the orientation of the image, that I must use for a client.  It would be one less step for me to have the aspect ratio applied during the import process.  Other people might want specific pixel dimensions and/or specific locations in an image, so I think the more customizable the better.
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Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

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The original post and the thrust of my response relate to the addition of a Crop Value(s) to the Develop preset. 

There is a separate discussion percolating in places within this thread regarding the Most Recently Used Aspect Ratio list located in the Crop Tool panel Aspect Ratio pulldown.  Discussions regarding that separate issue set are unrelated to this original request.  

"Additions to" - and the "labeling of" - MRU Aspect Ratios probably belong in a separate thread. 
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Shane Betts

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Thanks Rikk, for refocussing (not a feature request) this thread. It's really appreciated.

I propose a simple "develop preset from current settings" or "update with current settings". This would actually solve a few problems people have raised. For me it would mean I can roll aspect ratio into my current develop preset as applied on import but it would also allow people to apply a name to certain aspect ratios, such as "My Client's Web Banner" etc. where now we can only identify them by "4x3" or "175x6". It should also solve many of your reservations regarding how the crop is applied across various RAW image sizes etc. 

Saving crop ratios is already available and bulk applying them in the Library module is already working a treat without getting too complex or over-thought. If I could just save my current crop settings into a preset and apply it on import, that would save me hours. No, not every image is going to crop perfectly and will need adjustment. Happens to me every day. But, for the 75% of images that do fit, it's a time saving.

It may not fix everyone's problem or address their wishlist but it should be pretty simple to implement and give you time to address the more complex ideas being proposed, without a lot of noise from guys like me.
(Edited)
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Patrick Garrett

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Saving my "develop settings" as a preset is what I was trying to do and found it it wasn't possible.  Seemed strange since I could save the develop setting.
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Patrick Garrett

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It would look like this...
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sangean

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98% of my work requires me to send photos cropped in 4:3 aspect ratio.

My current workflow consists of importing images with my specific preset, then:

select all
click "r"
click "aspect" 
scroll to "4:3"
click "sync..."
click "synchronise"
click enter
unselect all

I can't see why the 'aspect ratio' setting cannot be included with the develop presets so that it can be applied on import.


Considering how pathetically slow Lightroom has become, (at least on a 2016 MBP 15" with SSD half full and 16GB of RAM, with all tricks and suggestions under the sun to speed it up clicked on and off).... if I can save the above 8 steps, 10-12 times a day, it would help to ease my frustration.

I understand that this trivial feature is irrelevant to most non working and amateur photographer, which I also suspect are the majority of Lightroom users these days, and probably the target market....
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Shane Betts

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You can also select all in Library mode and select 4:3 from the dropdown menu in Quick Develop. A bit faster than what you're doing but still a pain in the butt compared to what we're asking for.
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Tomek Jar

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled LIGHTROOM: User Presets - Develop Preset and Crop Aspect (ratio) checkbox.

It would be great if User Presets - Save/Update Develop Preset could have Crop > Aspect (ratio) checkbox.
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jeremyclarke

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Fix this Adobe, the problem is super annoying. The whole system with the Settings checkboxes is out of control!

This related ticket is also vital: 
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom_allow_crop_settings_in_presets

We need the ability to better control "which boxes are checked" with presets of checked boxes. Presets would be like "Crop" and "Lighting".  Similar to the Adjustment Brush presets pulldown, you could quickly switch to a set of checkboxes after saving it with a name. 

The way it currently works expects us to constantly recheck the huge list of boxes in those "Settings" lists, which is ergonomically dangerous. Tasks like that hurt my wrist, and I don't think it's good for anyone.

We should be able to control those Settings checkboxes with the keyboard!  "Choose a preset" keystroke (down key), then down key and enter to pick the one you want. 

AND add the actual crop to the list of options for presets, of course that too!

We need the crop tool in all such lists of Settings. Having Crop available in the Sync tool, but not the develop presets is confusing to users, those lists should always match!

Having the lists match (and thus crop present in the Develop Presets) is extra important because currently the lists of checkboxes are shared between the Sync, Develop Preset AND Copy Settings windows. When you change the setting in any window, it applies to all the others EXCEPT for the Crop box, which is ignored completely while in the Develop Preset window. 

Cropping is not very fast on my MacBook, so being able to automate it and avoid the crop view is important. Adobe please fix this and improve the Copy Settings system in other ways while you're at it!
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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Jeremy, the link you posted ("This related ticket is also vital") is to this thread. Did you mean to post another link?
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jeremyclarke

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https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/allow-for-copy-settings-profiles?topic-reply-...

This is the link I meant to post, thanks John R. Ellis. for pointing that out!
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Frédéric Lhonoré

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled predefined cropping parameter of the development module.

"I need to use the predefined cropping parameter of the development module to automate cropping at import (as is possible with the "copy / paste" see attached picture).Is it possible to implement this parameter
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Andres_asm

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After 7 years this request  is always not implemented? is it so complicated?
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Walter Palmer

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Another voice, calling in the void for this feature. I can define a "user crop preset" in Photoshop; please let me also do it in Lightroom. Why are the two panels (shown above) different?

In the "Crop & Straighten Panel", we should be able to apply specific dimensions or percentages as well as aspect ratios. 

Come on Adobe, don't be afraid to answer your users. We are actually on your side. We want to let everyone know how cool our product of choice really is.
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TPJ

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled copy and paste crop settings is possible, but crop settings in develop presets ....

There is no reason why preset settings and copy paste settings should be different.
There is not 1 engineer at adobe who thinks that this should be useful? just turn it on please.
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Ed

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I've just come across this myself.

In my case, I'm digitising old slides by tethering my camera. With my homemade jig my slides are in a predictable position in the frame - a roughly 4x5 ratio image in the center, with rotation. I've got a develop preset for the slides - but have to manually apply the crop later. The frame is in one of two possible positions (I'm shooting stereo slides), so ideally I'd have a develop preset for left and right sides that I'd pick before shooting.

I can sync crops later - but whilst shooting tethered and trying to pick the best focused image, it would be much more helpful if it was applied along with my other default settings.
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Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

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In your case. you can do this now. If you are shooting Tethered, you can crop the first one and then choose the "Same as Previous" option in the tether bar and it will apply those changes for the remainder of the session. 
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Ed

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Thanks, that's good to know.

Sadly because I'm shooting in two positions, every few frames I need to change to the alternate crop and rotation - with 'same as previous' I'd still need to manually copy an existing crop quite frequently - which is a pain.

I'm somewhat confused why I can copy a crop and apply to many images, but not do the same for presets.