Lightroom 5: ICC Table Profiles clipped shadows under OSX

  • 12
  • Problem
  • Updated 2 years ago
  • Acknowledged
  • (Edited)
Hi, I've just found a really bad issue occurring in Lr 5 (but also in all other Lightroom versions) under Mac OSX 10.9 with a calibrated monitor: dark shadows (from a value of 20 to 0) are all clipped (pure black with no detail and no textures) while the histogram remains ok, indicating NO clipped shadows at all. This issue afflics also ACR.

Photoshop for now is the only software under MAC that reproduces dark shadows correctly: Library Module shows a bit darker and shifted shadows than Ps but acceptable, Develop Module is really bad showing brutally clipped shadows (but you work in the Develop Module right?!).

The same problem occurred also in OSX 10.8 but it was related only to LUT profiles, creating a Matrix based profile problems were solved.

Now the issue occurs with both Matrix and LUT profiles, v2 and v4. There's no apparent way to make Lr working right.

Under Windows no problems at all: Bridge, Photoshop, ACR, Lr (Library Module and Develop Module) show the same correct NOT clipped shadows.

I tested 8 different Mac running 10.9 with different GPU, different monitors, different profiling Softwares (Color Eyes Display Pro, Eizo Color Navigator, BasICC Color, i1 Profiler). Same results.
I tried to change the gamma value (2.2, sRGB, L*) problems remain. I tried to change ICC version (v2, v4) problems reamain. I tried to change profile type (LUT, MATRIX) problems remain.

How can a photographer work professionally on RAW images if shadows are bad reproduced?

Why Photoshop can reproduce shadows correctly while Lr isn't able to do that?

Why this happens only on a Mac enviroment?

Is Lr based on ColorSync (that can't handle profiles correctly) while Ps isn't (because it can handle and it has no problem)?

Please Adobe, FIX IT for all professional photographers, we can’t use Lr for serious works under Mac.

Max Ramuschi
Adobe Certified Expert

p.s.: Added a 100% Crop screenshots that shows the problem, some photos are even worse...

Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
  • frustrated

Posted 5 years ago

  • 12
Photo of Chris Cox

Chris Cox

  • 20280 Posts
  • 837 Reply Likes
Does this only happen in 10.9, or does it happen in previous OS versions as well?

It sounds a lot like a regression of an old MacOS ColorSync bug...
Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
Hi Chris, as I wrote, Lr 4 under Mac OSX 10.8 suffered the same problem but with LUT profiles only. No problems with Matrix profiles. Now problems with both and no way to correct them.
Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
Adobe should reprogram Lr 5 to work properly with ICC profiles under Mavericks, until they solve the problem no professional work should be done using Lightroom on new or updated Macs.

Chris, how can we inform adobe engineers about this problem?

And what can I say to my Lightroom classes? "Guys, shadows are all wrong if you use Mavericks" ?! Pro photographers don't care if it's Apple or Adobe related issue, it's Lightroom that doesn't work properly....
Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
Here is a link to the original photo I use to post the 100% crop example.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kl494m76h9m...

I can send tons of images where the issue exhibits. But every image with an area of shadows with a value between 20 and 0 should be fine.
Photo of Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen

Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

  • 4737 Posts
  • 1827 Reply Likes
I can't reproduce the problem here, even with your file. I'm running LR 5.3, looking at it in Develop at 1:1 view. And Photoshop CC, again at 100% view. Both on the same EIZO CG243W calibrated using BasICColor software, Matrix profile, v2, L* on Mac 10.9.1. They're identical. You've ruled out quite a number of issues - have you ruled out your calibration hardware?
Photo of felbo

felbo

  • 21 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
dark previews in Lightroom 5.3.


previews in LR (both Library and Develop module) are darker and more contrasty vs Photoshop

(Adobe Bridge shows previews exellent)

OSX 10.9.1, PS CC 14.1.4, LR 5.3, Eizo CG 19 calibrated with Color Navigator 5.4.5
Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
It sounds strange. Are you looking at the shadow zone on the right? You must look at the part of image showed in the first example.

I tried calibrating with Spider 4 and i1 Display Pro using i1 Profiler, BasICColor, Coloreyes Display Pro 1.6 and Eizo Color Navigator 6.4.6 (only for my Eizo).

The problem is the same on 8 Macs (mine included). It shows up on the Eizo as on the apple LCD screen and iMac. Every colleague I consulted has the same problem...

Note that the same calibrating hardware and software doesn't cause problems on Windows...it can't be an hardware related issue.
Photo of Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen

Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

  • 4737 Posts
  • 1827 Reply Likes
Yep, I'm looking at exactly the same spot as you Max. I went back and checked it against your screenshot.

I'll carry on experimenting with other software to see if I can reproduce it.
Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
Please note also that the difference in shadows between Library Module and Develop Module shows up with the standard OSX included profile (with the Retina LCD screen included profile as well).
Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
I try to create just now an L* profile on my eizo....

Please tell me which graphic card are you using on your mac. If your basic (included in OSX) profile doesn't cause problems, it might be a Graphic Driver issue, beacause mine does.
Photo of Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen

Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

  • 4737 Posts
  • 1827 Reply Likes
That machine's a 15" retina MacBook Pro
Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
Oh my...the same I tested, the GPU is the same... Really I don't understand. How can your mac work correcltly when every mac I tested showed up the issue?

Which calibrator? Currently I'm using i1 Display Pro with Eizo Color Navigator 6.4.6 (Mavericks compatible).
Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
There is a fresh update for Color Navigator... let my try. Fingers crossed.
Photo of Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen

Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

  • 4737 Posts
  • 1827 Reply Likes
i1 Display Pro! I'll try the EIZO software tomorrow. (Getting late here now)

One more experiment we could try... I could send you my profile - it wouldn't be accurate for your monitor of course, but it might be interesting to see if it displays the same in LR/PS on your machine with that profile. Drop me an email via my website (just google me) if you want to give it a shot!
Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
WOW thanks I have a CG243W too....
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner

  • 130 Posts
  • 10 Reply Likes
It appears Mavericks requires updated monitor calibration software:

http://nativedigital.co.uk/site/2013/...

...but still no 10/bit/color support!
Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
I've already updated everything.
Photo of Jao van de Lagemaat

Jao van de Lagemaat

  • 194 Posts
  • 61 Reply Likes
This is a bug in Apple's color management routines introduced in Mavericks. It still hasn't been fixed. I haven't found any calibration software that doesn't show this problem. Even the built in profile shows the problem. Photoshop is immune but not Lightroom, iPhoto, Aperture, preview, etc. Pretty bad.
Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
So it is... And the bad news are: Yosemite does the same thing, I've been testing the beta 1. Really bad.
Photo of Jao van de Lagemaat

Jao van de Lagemaat

  • 194 Posts
  • 61 Reply Likes
Good to know. I haven't had time to test yosemite yet. Really annoying 10.8 did this right. I submitted bug reports to Apple but they are not getting fixed. P.S the way to get Lightroom Develop to display correctly is to turn on soft proofing and proof to a wide space such as adobeRGB. The shadows will be more or less correct again. My guess is that this forces Lightroom develop to use Adobe's color management routines instead of relying on Apple's ColorSync libraries.
Photo of Massimiliano Ramuschi

Massimiliano Ramuschi

  • 65 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
10.8 did it right only for Matrix based profiles. LUT ones showed same behaviour. The only thing we can hope is that Adobe will make Lr indipendent from Osx color management.
Photo of Alfredo Pagliano

Alfredo Pagliano

  • 1 Post
  • 0 Reply Likes
Massimiliano, I'm working on a late 2013 Retina MBPro with Mavericks 10.4 (uncalibrated).
I tried to replicate your findings but with different results.
When I open the test image you provided in Preview, Safari and Photoshop CC 2014 shadows are very very badly clipped (same with old CC and CS6).
The same image shows very good shadows in Lightroom 5.6's Library module and only minor clipping to the point of being almost intelligible in the Develop module.
That's is exactly the opposite of what you're experiencing in Photoshop, isn't it?
Moreover, If I use Lightroom's "Edit in" function to edit in PS, using Lightroom adjustments, the image viewed in PS shows improved shadows.
Photo of Jao van de Lagemaat

Jao van de Lagemaat

  • 194 Posts
  • 61 Reply Likes
Strangely 10.9.5 has fixed the problem for all apps (Aperture, preview, iPhoto, etc.) except for Lightroom, which still shows the dark shadows problem. All the other apps showed the issue before. Apple must have fixed something but Lightroom is not playing nice with it.
Photo of YOUNGHWAN KIM

YOUNGHWAN KIM

  • 1 Post
  • 0 Reply Likes
I have a same problem.
But when I use Soft proofing in lightroom, raw images from lightroom show almost same with developed images in photoshop.
The problem is Tiff or Jpeg, It should be same in lightroom and photoshop. but it isn't.
I think Adobe had a big mistake. because when I use soft proofing with Tiff or Jpeg, I can see same tone and colour with photoshop.
I use Mac OS X 10.9.5, Lightroom 5.6, PhotoshopCC 2014, NEC LCD2490 with Spectraview2.
Photo of Andrea Riela

Andrea Riela

  • 13 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hi All,

I've also the same issue, Mavericks 10.9.5 / Lr 5.6.

Any chance to have Adobe more involved on this? I suspect the normal behavior doesn't include Library and Develop Modules with these differences in terms of shadows management. If it's matter of pointing to the right routines, I think this is something Adobe can fix without any support by Apple. Am I wrong?

Thank you
Andrea