Lightroom 4.1 RC2: Artefacts when using shadows, clarity and image warp (lens corrections)

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Just to make this into an "official" problem: There are strange artefacts when using shadows, clarity and image warp (lens corrections).

Details here:
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/997568...
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/995958...

Also applies to ACR 6.7 final, which shows the same artefacts for LR-images edited in Photoshop (rendering using photoshop's ACR).

P.S. May be related to http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh... but I think they are two different/distinct problems (however, both seem to be introduced with changes in clarity in RC2).
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LRuserXY

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Posted 7 years ago

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Todd Shaner

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Thanks for posting and it looks like Adobe has already acknowledged this as a problem.

I'll add that the artifacts appear to be caused by aliasing of the adjustment layer masks.
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Rikk Flohr, Champion

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Adjustment Layer Masks?
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Todd Shaner

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Just a guess. I was referring to the layer masks LR's rendering engine creates internally to apply the user adjustment settings to the raw image.
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LRuserXY

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I think what Todd Shaner means is that it looks like if Lightroom calculates some internal (!) masks for shadows and clarity, and that these masks are not correctly scaled and/or transformed along the different kinds of lens warp.

Of course, we normally don't see those masks.

EDIT: Sorry, somehow I did not see the answer from Todd Shaner above this post. So my post is redundant ;-)
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Rikk Flohr, Champion

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Statements like that could give users the wrong idea about Lightroom's feature set. To be clear: There are no Layers nor Layer masks in Lightroom. There may be mechanisms that can be described analogously in that manner.

If the furor the Kelby group and onOne had to deal with regarding the marketing of Perfect Layers is any indication, we want to avoid imprecise descriptions that can be confused by the user base.

Just my opinion of course.
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Todd Shaner

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Sorry if this caused any confusion. My feedback was intended primarily for the Adobe LR engineering team.
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LRuserXY

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Just for fun: A ridiculous application of LRTimelapse and GIF animation:



Click on preview to see the animation (1 MB). Lens correction -> manual -> rotation varies between 0...2.5 (100% crop, shadows and clarity at +100).
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wm bailey

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My link is referenced in the original post of this thread and just to be clear about the issue I have observed:

"When" the Lens Correction Panel is enabled (including the "Color" tab) - AND when I apply Clarity - I get major peculiar artifacts tot he right of my moon shot.

When Lens Corrections are Not Enabled - I can have Clarity set to 100 - and I see Zero Artifacts, nor do I discern any weird results.

"When" I have Clarity set to "0" with Lens Corrections Enabled - I get major purple fringing and other color anomalies.

(Thus - originally I assumed it was a "Clarity" slider issue - as the title indicates - but in fact in my case it is distinctly a Lens Correction issue (when using the Clarity slider)

I can provide a Tiff and my Lr4 catalog to Becky or any Adobe staff at their asking.

Thanks for the opportunity to help.
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LRuserXY

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Strange... with clarity and shadows set to zero, I have never seen any problems with lens correction warp. But perhaps there are other settings that will show similar artefacts together with warping. Hopefully, they will all be fixed in the next LR/ACR versions.
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LRuserXY

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By the way: ACR 7.1 RC has the same bug.

P.S. Why is this problem marked "solved" now? All latest PV2012-capable ACR variants still have this bug: ACR 6.7 final for CS5, ACR 7.1 of LR 4.1 RC2 and ACR 7.1 RC for CS6 (don't know about ACR 6.7 final for PSE/PRE, though). Or does it just mean "internally solved", i.e. bug was found+fixed, but did not make it into an update yet?
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wm bailey

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may be solved in the Lr4.1 final....
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LRuserXY

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Thanks! Yes, now the "solved" makes sense :-)
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Lawrence Braunstein

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I've encountered a bug in LR 4.1 RC2. When working on a very contrasty image where extreme 'Highlights' reduction and 'Shadows' boosting are required, a strange kind of haloing appears along the edges of dark objects which border on a light background. As landscape photographer, I've found this happening along the edges of dark tree bark adjacent to a background of light sky. What makes this behavior even more puzzling is that by disabling 'Lens Corrections', the halos go away! I can not duplicate this behavior with LR 4.0. It only happens with the RC2 version of LR 4.1. What a shame! I find the new color fringe correction tools a major improvement! Thank you for any help you may offer.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
LR 4.1 RC2 bug (Develop Module).
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Todd Shaner

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For now you can set the 'Lens Corrections' Distortion and Transform controls to '0' prevents this issue and allows using all of the other controls, including the new Defringe Color tools. The 'Crop Overlay' Angle tool can also be used if you need to rotate the image. This should be helpful with landscape images, but obviously not a perfect solution for all images.

This bug will be fixed in the LR4.1 final release.
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Lawrence Braunstein

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The problem is, Todd, I hadn't used any of the Transform controls; they were all set to '0'. And yet, I still got this strange haloing. The only items which were activated were 'Enable Profile Corrections' and 'Remove Chromatic Aberration'. The problem seems to be more complicated than I imagined. I hope the bug will be fixed in the LR 4.1 final release.
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Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață, Champion

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Profile-based or manual — this does'n matter. Any geometric transformations trigger the bug.
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Todd Shaner

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The only items which were activated were 'Enable Profile Corrections' and 'Remove Chromatic Aberration'.

This is why I said you must also set the Lens Profile "Distortion" amount to '0.' You can then update the Lens Profile by clicking on 'Setup' (under Enable Profile Corections checkbox) and select 'Save New Lens Profile Defaults.' You will need to do this for each lens type and you can always change it back later.

I personally set all my lens profile defaults to '0' Distortion and only use it when there is visible barrel or pincushion distortion in the image. Wide angle zoom lenses typically have some barrel distortion and correction will cause the image periphery to become elongated and cropped. I actually prefer the look without distortion correction, especially for ultra wide angle landscape shots.Try both 100% and then 0% Distortion settings with one of your wide angle landscape images to see what I'm talking about.

Once you do this you should not see the haloing artifacts. Let us know.
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Lawrence Braunstein

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Yes! The haloing is gone! Thank you for the work around! Though I don't really wish to do without distortion correction as a default setting, your suggestion is certainly a simple solution until the bug is corrected. At least I now have access to the other correction controls (including the new defringe controls!). Thank you so much for your help!
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LRuserXY

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A very faint and "thin" version of the artefacts can be seen when no lens correction is applied at all. It can be seen most clearly at high contrast edges.

Here is an example (100% crop from a larger picture):

Image #1: Adobe defaults, no manual or profile lens corrections, no clarity.
Image #2: Plus clarity +100, you can see the faint "thin" artefacts already
Image #3: Plus manual lens correction rotation +0.1, the artefacts become "full-blown"





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Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață, Champion

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Might be a limitation of Clarity.
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LRuserXY

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Could be... but the artefacts in the second image look "funny". They art not halos or the like, but "jagged" structures with alternating dark and light lines in one-pixel intervals. That is not the artefact I would expect from a clarity limitation.
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Todd Shaner

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I can see the same artifacts, but it only appears where there is chromatic aberration and/or fringing present in the image. It looks like Clarity is being applied to the image prior to CA and/or Defringe removal, because you can still see it with these two tools enabled. The high Clarity setting to seems to amplify the CA.

I sure hope the fix for the original problem will remove or at least reduce this artifact.
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chris burks

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Applying lens profile corrections is producing very strange artifacts on some hard contrasty edges

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Lightroom: Artifacts produced by lens profile correction tool.
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Noble Fore

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Lightroom 4.1RC2 (Process version 2012)
As above, but there's more going on than just Lens Correction. Using just the Basic Panel for adjustments (everything else zeroed) there is still this hard edge high contrast artifact. Lens Correction certainly dramatically adds to the effect.

Adjust a photo using Process version 2010 then select Process version 2012
(Camera Calibration Panel.) Compare the high contrast edges in the same adjusted photo with Process version 2012 and Process version 2010.
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Todd Shaner

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I think you are seeing the difference between PV2010 's Develop settings and PV2012 "automatic" White and Black point settings. PV2012 shows more detail in the shadows and highlights, which is not a defect. It's just accentuating the lens defects.

Try this:

Adjust the image file using only PV2010 Basic controls and everything else turned off (zero'd as you say). Now create a virtual copy, change the copy to PV2012, and adjust the Basic controls so it looks as close as possible to the PV2010 image. When done the two Histograms should look virtually identical

Do you still this "hard edge high contrast artifact" in the PV2012 image with no other adjustments (i.e. No Lens Corrections tools) applied?
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Noble Fore

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Thanks Todd.

I did as you suggested and experimented a bit. There was very little difference with the high contrast edges between PV2010 and PV2012 with or without Lens Corrections using a baseline image. But like LRusser24 I obtained similar results (I'll call it the barber pole effect) when applying Clarity with or without Lens Corrections (distortion and CR) applied.

Attached are two screen captures (100% crop in LR) including the settings panel.

Left is PV2012 w/Lens Correction/Clarity 0.
Right is PV2012 w/Lens Correction/Clarity 50.
Clarity set at 50 exaggerates the artifacts, but I was seeing those effects at Clarity 10.

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Todd Shaner

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As I already said:

I can see the same artifacts, but it only appears where there is chromatic aberration and/or fringing present in the image. It looks like Clarity is being applied to the image prior to CA and/or Defringe removal, because you can still see it with these two tools enabled. The high Clarity setting to seems to amplify the CA.

When LR builds the preview or export image it applies the Develop settings using several operations and several bitmaps, which are then merged to create the final processed output. What I think is happening is that the Clarity processing uses a bitmap that does NOT have any CA settings applied to it. This accentuates the CA (i.e. fringing), leaving halo like artifacts even after CA processing is applied.

LR3 'Fill' tool creates similar halo artifacts perhaps for the same reason, but we all assumed this was corrected in LR4.
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LRuserXY

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LR 4.1 final and ACR 7.1 final: The "thick" artefacts when using lens corrections are gone, but the "thin" variant shown in my post above are still there. Note: The artefacts still change shape when changing lens correction parameters, but they always stay "thin".

I am slightly disappointed. However, the "thin" variant is probably visible only in 100% view on monitor. I am not sure whether it is visible in normal cases, e.g. prints.
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Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

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This is a limitation of the current technology, a tradeoff we had to make to keep performance reasonable (otherwise to use the Highlights, Shadows, or Clarity sliders would be several times slower and use a lot more memory ...)
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Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață, Champion

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Can you elaborate a bit, please? Under what circumstances do these limitations arise? Generally, I don't see these artefacts. Is this when Highlights, Shadows, or Clarity are pushed to far, when there's purple fringing on the edge or a combination of both?
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Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

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Dorin, generally this can happen with strong edges (e.g., dark branches against a bright sky), when used in conjunction with strong settings of Highlights, Shadows, and/or Clarity. The tone mapping methods behind these controls are edge-aware in the sense that they try to minimize halos across strong edges, as you'd expect to see if you were to try doing local dodging/burning with a brush. The underlying masking technology to minimize these halos is very complex and expensive, so we had to make some tradeoffs to get performance to a reasonable level in an on-the-fly, parametric editing system.
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Lee Jay

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The "on the fly" part is why we really need a progressive rendering system, so we don't have to make those sorts of trades if we don't want to. We used to have "pixel doubling" and detail panel settings applied later, but these have been removed. I'd like to see them back with a slider for the user to decide just how "on the fly" the renderings have to be.
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Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

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Unfortunately, such a progressive system would not help this case.
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Todd Shaner

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Thank you Eric, I understand and appreciate the tradeoff concerning maintaining LR's real-time operating performance (screen image building), but what about output image building?

Would it be possible to incorporate changes for better imaging during Export, Edit In, Print, and other output operations? I think most users wouldn't mind waiting a bit longer for their final output to be processed, especially to achieve the best results. I know this may cause complaints about screen imaging not matching the output, but we're talking very small artifacts. IMHO that is also a justifiable limitation of current technology “tradeoff" that most users would accept.

This is just a suggestion for improving an already outstanding product, my compliments to you and the rest of the LR team.
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Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

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Hi Todd,

Indeed this is something we're considering. Thanks.

Eric