Lightroom/Camera Raw: Red bleed in raw development for my camera

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Relation of Adobe RAW process with new import dialog:


2003 = first process we had in Lightroom. It was OK because I did not know better.


2010 = better noise handling. If Detail effect is deactivated, there is nothing different in image quality regarding resolution. Only noise handling is better in 2010 process over 2003. Nothing else I could find, beside slight crushed shadows under 2010 process (where 2003 process renders them fine in 2010 a shaddow clipping warning is engaged).


2012 = different light/tone curve handling. Exposure goes to +5 instead of +4 in 2010 and clarity +100 of 2010 is +50 in 2012. Other than that, same end result can be achieved in both processes. Main difference is that default Luma curve in 2010 is medium contrast, while in 2012 is flat. But that flat curve have already some curve in the background. So going from flat in 2010 to 2012 result in custom reversed S curve. 2012 process have slightly flattened highlits as 100%. While 2010 have slightly blown out highlights. But in 2010 that can be asily recovered either by curve or H-rec. slider. While in 2012 that contrasty look of highlights can not be achieved.


Only big difference in 2012 is how tone sliders works. Pulling highlights to -100 and shadows to +100 in 2012 process is the same as putting exposure to -2 and fill light to 100 in 2010 process. I like the way how slider work in 2012 but I like how they handle light in 2010 better. Other than that there is no obvious difference between processes. For most of work I like 2010 process better.


But NONE of the processes adresses main problem: RED color bleeding. Its all over the place. Any color which have red as primary component is waaay overexposed and saturated. To have red equaly represented as other colors, exposure must be lowered to -1,5 EV. Of course all other parts of image is than underexposed. There is no other solution than masking and selective toning. I must pull luminance of red to -40 in HSL tool. Where under camera calibration the "embeded" profile is a bit better than Adobe Standard. Pulling the RED slider in Camera calibration section does not help, since red is overexposed too, not just oversaturated.


I can conclude that Adobe did rather nothing with it's raw conversion process for the last 12 years, regarding image resolution and color rendering. Adobe rather tweaks how slider works and adds minor tweaks to editing tools. Only major improvement was noise reduction in 2010. Other than that there is little to praise regarding development. And that is the core of their necessity to change something visible. Why not import dialog!

Note: This conversation was created from a reply on: Lightroom: Restore features removed from Import in LR 6.2 / CC 2015.2.
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Mihael Tominsek

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Posted 3 years ago

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Chris Cox

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With which camera brand and model are you seeing this red bleed problem?
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Mihael Tominsek

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It's been problem with any camera I had. Less with JPEG images than RAW. But most visible is with Pentax K-r. I thought that is the way it is... until I tested other raw conversion.
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vinsolo

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Regarding the red color bleeding and over saturation I have had this problem myself. I have no evidence but my eyes.

Just that my experience would support Mr Thominsek's remarks.

vince
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Chris Cox

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Again, what camera brand and model are you seeing this problem on?
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vinsolo

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nikon D3
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Mihael Tominsek

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It's been problem with any camera I had. Less with JPEG images than RAW. But most visible is with Pentax K-r. I thought that is the way it is... until I tested other raw conversion. I searched among hundreds of photos. RED is prtoblem. With olf FujiFilm S5600 and S9500PRO (raw) there is not. But soon as you start to slider up colors, red jumps out way before any other color reach oversaturation. While with Pentax K-r red is alredy oversaturated.

There is no such problem if same raw is converted with Capture One or even free (!!) software PhotoScape. I just rechecked for shure. I have free DNG codec installed so my DNG's are visible in Explorer as thumnails and Windows Picture viewer can open them. In WindowsPictureViewer reds are overexposed, but in Photoscape are not. Of course PhotoScapa have no professional feuteres to develop image, I only wanted to point out how it handless RED color.
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Mihael Tominsek

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Image represents table scene shot with Pentax K-r and Sigma 18-35 f1.8 with bounced flash. All red paper tissues are very overexposed. Darker red table cloth is not. All highlights on white porcelain plates can be resolved with highlights tool, but red remain overexposed. The problem is not that flash would overbrighten thoose tissues, since all are overexposed, not just closest one to camera, and flash was bounced.
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Mihael Tominsek

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edit: All red colors are too bright here, in fact whole image is washed out.
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Mihael Tominsek

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Same DNG-RAW converted with PhotoScape and edited in Lightroom (some contrast enhancements and shadow lifting - but colors are not touched). Image is much more contrasty than Lr converted, so more pleasant to eye. Especially the highlight area (shirt on the right). But highlights can not not be salvaged on plates , since Photoscape bakes tiff before any adjustment can be done (contrary to Lr).

Colors are correct from my memory (it was yesterday I shoot that). I must explain I have Pentax set to shoot in DNG directly. There is no pixel difference in images if I use PEF format (I tested that too).
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Mihael Tominsek

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This picture represents edited image in Lightroom. All setings are same as previous image (Photoscape converted), but color red here is reduces to -50 and orange to -20. Colors are right now, but red is flat, no contrast in it.
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Mihael Tominsek

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This image is edited in Lightroom but with process 2010 which do not have reduced (compressed) highlights compared to process 2012 which gives flat look on highlights. Here reds are more contrasty and white shirt on right side have more life in it. Overal image is more contrasty in nice looking than process 2012. I deliberately did not salvage highlights in both images, to match with PhotoScape conversion, where they couldn not be salvaged. With either process RED must be lowered by the same margin.
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Mihael Tominsek

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This is same image loaded in CaptureOne. No adjustment. Image is really flat looking and RED's are not more saturated or exposed than other colors.
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Mihael Tominsek

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Image is CaptureOne edited image. To match other images, exposure was taken down, which solved highlights without restoration tool. Than Shaddows was a bit lifted and contrast was matvhed. No other setting was changed from default.

ALL images was captured from screen with Windows 7 snipping tool, to be fair comparison.
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Mihael Tominsek

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Any comment is appreciated.
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Mihael Tominšek

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I ended up using "DNG Profile Editor" and I made custom presets for my Pentax cameras. That solved problem of bleeding red color in Adobe Lightroom for Pentax Cameras. Solution is far more acurate than Lightroom settings, sicne I can adress 10's of color tones rather than 8 in Lighgtroom's HSL panel. 

Again: LR is capable a lot, but C1 gives a lot just out of the box. I would like usability / production speed issues are adreesed too, not just adding more and more (not)usefull functions to new revisioons of LR.