Lightroom: Respect Hierarchical Folders of Presets

  • 73
  • Idea
  • Updated 2 weeks ago
  • (Edited)
5 years ago, poster Sean Phillips first suggested this idea. Adobe has officially marked it as "implemented" - however, it is not implemented. Preset subfolders are scanned by LR, however, directory structure is not respected beyond the first level.

This makes preset management kludgy and inefficient. Please correct this by simply allowing the LR preset hierarchy to reflect the subfolder structure in the LR develop preset folder tree.
Photo of mrorange

mrorange

  • 20 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes
  • quite annoyed at the lack of a very simple organizational tool.

Posted 2 years ago

  • 73
Photo of Andrew Webb

Andrew Webb

  • 6 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
I've been waiting for this feature since the very first version of Lightroom.
Photo of MartyC

MartyC

  • 21 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
It just makes so much good sense to be able to organize presets into a multi-level hierarchical structure. It will speed up my workflow so much to have this. It's really hard to understand why we haven't had this available.
Photo of Aidan Wojtas

Aidan Wojtas

  • 57 Posts
  • 21 Reply Likes
The other thing, is having a Preset Intensity option. I have so many presets that are "Brightness -10" "Brightness 0" "Brightness +10" etc, all could be solved with a simply slider for the intensity of the Preset.

Similar in principle to how some smartphone apps work like Aviary, you apply a filter then drag up and down on image to affect how strong the filter effect is.
Photo of Sean Phillips

Sean Phillips

  • 159 Posts
  • 44 Reply Likes
This is a completely different suggestion though. If you want that you should create a new thread for it...  Having said that there is already a plugin available that does this for you:

http://www.capturemonkey.com/thefader/
Photo of THOMAS INGENPASS

THOMAS INGENPASS

  • 9 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Why do you not save your presets with the catalog if you do so you are shure to have in your catalogs only the presets you need for example for landscape only landscape preset for portrait only. ...
Photo of Sean Phillips

Sean Phillips

  • 159 Posts
  • 44 Reply Likes
I do save with with my catalog, however I only use one catalog for all of my images so that's no solution. And it still wouldn't solve the lack of organization...
(Edited)
Photo of Marc Scharnow

Marc Scharnow

  • 6 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Come on Adobe... Subfolder Hierarchy in Presets is a must have. I work with a lot of Presets and since Years it is horrible to manage this in LR. Month by Month my Preset Library grows bigger without a Subfolder Hierarchy in Presets i ́ll wasted a lot of time to find the right Preset.
Photo of John Norton

John Norton

  • 2 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Agreed - lets get this.
Photo of mrorange

mrorange

  • 20 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes

If you can, please throw some tweets out there linking back to this thread!


Photo of Howard Grover

Howard Grover

  • 2 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
I have only been using LR for a few weeks and when I finally got to understanding develop presets the first thing i wanted to do was organise them into subfolders, I couldn't believe that an application such as LR which is all about image management and organisation is missing such a simple implementation, being a computer programmer I find this unbelievable after so many years without listening to their customers requests.
Photo of Howard Grover

Howard Grover

  • 2 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
One alternative that I may adopt is to edit the individual presets (they're just text files) and prepend a name to the the title area, for example title = "[subfolder name] - [preset name]" obviously without the brackets, atleast they will be in order to easily find what your looking for, not as ideal as a nested hierarchy but better than nothing... just a thought...better yet! I might write a little app that does it automatically.
(Edited)
Photo of Sean Phillips

Sean Phillips

  • 159 Posts
  • 44 Reply Likes
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom: Respect Hierarchical Folders of Presets.

Currently presets can be stored in folders, but Lightroom doesn't respect the hierarchy beyond the first level. For example, the following hierarchy would appear with all of the folders on the same level with the top level folders appearing to be empty.

Develop Presets
-Folder 1
--Sub Folder 1.1
---Preset 1.1.1
--Sub Folder 1.2
---Preset 1.2.1
-Folder 2
--Sub Folder 2.1
---Preset 2.1.1
--Sub Folder 2.2
---Preset 2.2.1

The above hiearchy appears as follows:

Develop Presets
-Folder 1
-Sub Folder 1.1
--Preset 1.1.1
-Sub Folder 1.2
--Preset 1.2.1
-Folder 2
-Sub Folder 2.1
--Preset 2.1.1
-Sub Folder 2.2
--Preset 2.2.1

There are many reasons to want to use deeper hierarchies. I keep all the Presets from Matt Klowskowski in one folder, but further subdivided by folders that contain all the presets in the same category (eg. Wedding, B&W, etc). Lightroom ignores the top level folder and shows the subfolders as top level folders.

See the attached image to see the difference between Lightroom and the folders on disc.



Annoying.
Photo of Ron Alexander

Ron Alexander

  • 5 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes
Also, although this screenshot doesn't show it the Kloskowski 'preset/folder' is empty, yet in quick development it is not shown. Since the handling of things in folder hierarchies is a standard object in any programming language the different displays are inexplicable and ridiculously easy to implement.
Photo of John R. Ellis

John R. Ellis, Champion

  • 3372 Posts
  • 844 Reply Likes
The Any Preset plugin provides completely hierarchical organization of your develop presets, as well as a number of other frequently requested features for presets.
Photo of Andreas Schreiber

Andreas Schreiber

  • 2 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom: More levels of subfolders for developement-presets.

I would appreciate it if I could create subfolders into my preset folders. With a growing number of presets I have to decide between a confusing high number of folders with neatly arranged presets or vice versa. Even one additional level of folders to minimize could tidy up this mess.
Thanks 
Photo of Tobias Schneider

Tobias Schneider

  • 6 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom: Respect Hierarchical Folders of Presets.

All I really want are nested preset folders. Come on Adobe, it can't be that hard.

Note: This conversation was created from a reply on: Lightroom: Custom "Collections" of Develop Presets.
Photo of Ron Alexander

Ron Alexander

  • 5 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes
Just in case there is nobody at adobe who knows how to do this, the following google search will give you pointers and sample code
https://www.google.ca/search?q=programming+object+to+display+folder+contents+in+a+hierarchy&oq=p...

Or look at your own code that displays the collections, it is the same concept.
Photo of Sn1per

Sn1per

  • 1 Post
  • 1 Reply Like
I can't believe that Adobe still hasn't done this.
Photo of mrorange

mrorange

  • 17 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
It is absolutely baffling.
Photo of Erik Junius

Erik Junius

  • 1 Post
  • 1 Reply Like
There should be at least one level more.
Now the folder list is to long and need to much vertical scrolling.
Photo of Kelvin

Kelvin

  • 21 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled is it possible update lightroom to make a folder inside a folder, similar to the ....

Hi I was wondering is it possible in Lightroom to have an update so as to be able to make a folder inside a folder similar to what is already in the collections Module
Photo of Kelvin

Kelvin

  • 21 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes
I now see that many other users have long been asking for this to happen, and nothing has, would it not only be just courteous of Adobe to make some sort of statement here as to why this has not happened or if there is a chance it may or may not, then at least to say so. I look forward to comment
Photo of Ron Alexander Sr.

Ron Alexander Sr.

  • 3 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
If you dig back thru the many comments on this you will find that Adobe's official response is that it is done. In fact it is not of course, what is done is the Quick Develop Presets NOT the Develop Presets. I would also ask that the implementation for the Quick Develop is not correct either, it does not follow the standard for Tree-based keyboard searches. I suspect they are writing their own code instead of using standard windows objects.
Photo of Kelvin

Kelvin

  • 21 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes
I see now that I have asked this question just how many other Adobe customers have been asking the same thing for at least a year, if not longer, so much for listening to your customers adobe, I can take on board that some things take time, and there are many other things also needing attention, but when you have people from the Professional user to someone like me who just uses your product to help with his happy snaps, all asking for the same thing, dont you think you should get your finger out and do something to help...........rant over
Photo of mrorange

mrorange

  • 20 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes
Hear it from John - Organization is superficial.....
Photo of Tobias Schneider

Tobias Schneider

  • 6 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
Replicating the folder hierarchy in the UI seems superficially attractive, but it just substitutes one problem for another.

Not if you create a well thought out hierarchy that suits your workflow.
Photo of john beardsworth

john beardsworth

  • 956 Posts
  • 196 Reply Likes
"Hear it from John - Organization is superficial....."

No, you can't cut and paste properly. What I said was replicating the folder hierarchy in the UI seems superficially attractive.
Photo of Tobias Schneider

Tobias Schneider

  • 6 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
As for not being forced to use a feature, so what. It's still development time used and not available for features one does value.
Riiight. Debate settled, folks. If John doesn't want a feature, Adobe shouldn't waste any time implementing it (no matter how many other users might want it) because all their resources need to be focused on the ones he values.

Glad we cleared that up.
Photo of Geoff Walker

Geoff Walker, Champion

  • 214 Posts
  • 42 Reply Likes
Please keep your comments on topic not person....
Photo of AnotherLars

AnotherLars

  • 11 Posts
  • 10 Reply Likes
Hello John

I do not agree with your point of view. Those of us that uses many presets, journalizes them into logical folder structures, and therefore need to be able to subdivide these into sub-folders. I'm not looking around in one folder after another. If the option for subfolders were implemented, I can find the right preset category with a few clicks. And from here my photo workflow is easy.

In the photo club I belong to, we have several times talked about this problem that Adobe will be able to solve with very little effort, so why not fix this small technical issue?

Your suggestion to be able to filter presets are welcome, but I don't believe naming itself is the logical journalizing method. Here you ends up with a complex names syntax!

Best regards

Lars
Photo of MartyC

MartyC

  • 21 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
Listen, it's a waste of time to argue about hierarchical folders versus filtering/search. If we could have both implemented, it would help all of us. But we have been posting about this request for way over a year with no response or reply from Adobe. They appear disinterested in this idea and these suggestions. Having both works for the largest number of users who are people who love Adobe, but are frustrated by the lack action from Adobe. There's more competition now and users are losing their love for Adobe. I wish they would pay attention!
Photo of Kelvin

Kelvin

  • 21 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes
The above seems to be about photoshop but is applied to this conversation, I am wondering if someone has got their knickers in a twist over this
Photo of Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen

Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

  • 3774 Posts
  • 1246 Reply Likes
It was marked as implemented, and then there was more discussion about it and it was changed back to an active request.
Photo of Geoff Walker

Geoff Walker, Champion

  • 214 Posts
  • 42 Reply Likes
Thanks for the clarification Victoria (she who knows al!! :) :) )
Maybe we can push this along with Johns Filter option....????
Photo of Kelvin

Kelvin

  • 21 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes
Thanks Victoria, some light at last.
Photo of MartyC

MartyC

  • 21 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
Please share this with all the photographers you know who use Lightroom. Adobe is more likely to listen and act if large numbers of users join this effort and make their request known. It would be especially helpful if some of the prominent photographers with large internet followings would join and become part of this effort.
Photo of Rikk Flohr

Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

  • 3142 Posts
  • 506 Reply Likes
Just for clarification: Preset Folder Organization touches many different areas. Preset organization needs to be consistent across the application. Places where Preset Organization is currently present:

1. Develop Module - Preset panel 
2. Library Module - Quick Develop panel
3. Auto Import>Auto Import Settings...
4. Tether Capture Tool Bar
5. Import dialog - Apply During Import panel

Work has recently been completed to make those dialogs (and the subsequent organization represented) equivalent across the application. 

For items 2-5, there is little performance cost to increased hierarchy.  For Item 1, the cost is more significant. The Develop Module's Preset panel, ties to the Navigator Panel's preview image and the increase in hierarchy will complicate generation of a preview image when mousing over the preview. 

When the 6-year old thread, originally mentioned, was posted, Lightroom 3.x had more rudimentary functionality than today. That was updated in Lightroom 4 to allow for more hierarchy.  Additional consistency work was done in the 6.x time frame. 

Threads in this forum are marked implemented when we believe them to be implemented based upon the original poster's feature request. If that is shown to be in error, we mark the status of the thread accordingly. As Victoria has already pointed out, the thread had its "Implemented" status changed after this was realized. 

So - for all of you wanting this Hierarchical Preset organization I have a few questions: 

Have you viewed all five of the places where this will impact UI and are comfortable with the impact on workflow in those areas - whether you use a particular area or not?

Specifically to all who have posted on this thread - which area (1-5) are you asking about?

How many levels of hierarchy are desired?

How many are necessary?

How many will be detrimental to the average user? 

In order for a serious feature request to succeed it has to impact positively the workflow of the Lightroom user and not introduce new workflow issues. Adobe needs to hear more from you on this issue. 
Photo of Ron Alexander Sr.

Ron Alexander Sr.

  • 3 Posts
  • 5 Reply Likes
Basically anytime the program accesses any presets folder hierarchy on disk it should present that hierarchy exactly as it is just like Finder or File Explorer . Flattening it is user unfriendly, causes a performance hit and slows workflow.
If I have to prioritise it would be #1 first, then #5 and after that, I don't care (I had to spend 10 mins finding them because I never use them). The argument that a hierarchy causes a performance hit on the Navigator makes no sense to me and I am speaking as a programmer for over 30 years. Whether you are mousing down a long flat list causing the Navigator to update or a hierarchy is the same. Perhaps you are using a hover time of 0? Simply allow a configuration setting so I can set a hover time that suits my style.

As to how many, since the end user can organise their own or acquired presets then it is up to each user to decide how deep. The program should present that structure in the UI with the same limits as the platform file managers which I believe is 256 characters for each but if not that might be a reasonable limit (256 character path  and file name)

As to the Adobe built in presets, use common sense. The existing structure needs to be at least 1 deeper so that I have Lightroom then a choice between B&W and Color then what you have now but reserve 1 deeper just in case.That would be 3 levels but allow 4 or 5 for future. If they use a standard off the shelf HD folder reader object then this is a moot point other than to specify a high limit during object creation and I would vote for 5 OR make it a Prefs setting would be even better.

None of this makes me want to leave LR and PS but the long delay in implementing a standard Windows and Apple construct as you have in the Folders section and elsewhere creates unnecessary tension between us.

Thanks for getting involved Rikk.
Photo of Tobias Schneider

Tobias Schneider

  • 6 Posts
  • 6 Reply Likes
Thank you for an official answer :)

As for your questions:

"Have you viewed all five of the places where this will impact UI and are comfortable with the impact on workflow in those areas - whether you use a particular area or not?"

Of course performance impact is never a good thing - I do believe however it is definitely well worth it if the impact is only on preset preview and application. If there is a significant delay every time when switching to the Develop module, that would be a matter for concern (but also a sign of seriously bad programming ^^).

"Specifically to all who have posted on this thread - which area (1-5) are you asking about?"

I mainly just care about the 1 - Develop module. The functionality would of course also be very nice on 2, 3 and 5, though I personally don't use these often enough to matter (and if I do, I can currently use a single folder for favorite import presets). As for 4 - ask me again when Adobe and Pentax get their act together and I can actually shoot tethered ;)

"How many levels of hierarchy are desired?"

Obviously, two at a minimum so we can have preset groups with subgroups. Three would be a lot nicer, of course, but I could live with two if that's significantly easier to implement. Four or more already seems a bit like overkill to me personally.

"How many are necessary?"

See above - even two levels would already help a lot compared to the current situation.

"How many will be detrimental to the average user?"

That's a non-issue IMHO because even if you were to offer fifty levels of hierarchy, nobody would be forced to use them. But for sanity's sake, I'd draw the limit at five.

Of course, a Filter / Search box as suggested by John would also be a very welcome addition. But if I had to choose between those two, I'd prefer a hierarchy because it's easier to browse a well organized preset library than wracking my brain for the name of a preset I forgot.

As for this:

"Preset organization needs to be consistent across the application"

Just out of curiosity let me ask why is this? Is this a necessity because all those areas using presets use the same code or is this a dictum from your UI/UX team?
Photo of MartyC

MartyC

  • 21 Posts
  • 4 Reply Likes
Thank you, beautifully said! We must keep the momentum going on this. We're closer now than at any time in the past as we at least have someone's attention at Adobe. Thank you Rikk Flohr for taking us seriously.
Photo of AnotherLars

AnotherLars

  • 11 Posts
  • 10 Reply Likes
1. Develop Module - Preset panel (Mandatory)
2. Library Module - Quick Develop panel (Yes - please)
3. Auto Import>Auto Import Settings... (Yes - please)
4. Tether Capture Tool Bar (Yes - please)
5. Import dialog - Apply During Import panel (Yes - please)

How many levels of hierarchy are desired? 4
How many are necessary? 2
How many will be detrimental to the average user? > 5

And in local ajustments (filter effects) - minimum 2 levels!
Photo of mrorange

mrorange

  • 20 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes
Lars got it right on the money. Adding a filter/search to this would be, IMHO, perfect.
Photo of Sean Phillips

Sean Phillips

  • 159 Posts
  • 44 Reply Likes
I basically only ever use presets in Develop,  so that's where this is most important to me. However in order to make the program consistent for users I can't imagine why you would develop this in one place and not everywhere else. To do differently (as it is now) only makes the program more confusing.

Having at least 3 but no more than 5 levels of hierarchy would be useful. Mine are organized both in folders based on the source from which they came, which often includes at least one more sub level to describe the type of preset (eg. B&W, Color, Psychadelic, etc.). I currently also have another level that I created a few years ago when older presets didn't work properly with the newest process version (or reverted the image back to the previous process version when they were applied). Although I rarely use them I still have some of those older presets and still see a need for that level of hierarchy...

As for performance cost, obviously I'm not interested in taking any hit in that regard if it's possible to avoid it. LR is already, unfortunately, a sluggish pig most of the time. However I honestly believe that is a different conversation. I truly believe that using good coding practices across the platform (which includes reusing identical code wherever possible) will help that more than hurt it. Admittedly I am not an active developer and I stand to be corrected in that regard.

But my point is still valid that Adobe need to address the performance of the program across the board. I can access my images in Photo Mechanic and ON1 Photo RAW almost instantly while when accessing the same images in LR sometimes takes as long as 10 minutes to even see anything other than a spinning beachball. Adding (or not adding) hierarchy levels to my presets folders will not change that...
(Edited)
Photo of Kelvin

Kelvin

  • 21 Posts
  • 8 Reply Likes
I am not a professional in any of these matters but the whole thread of this thread has been about the develope  Module  and what is best to help Professionals and other users alike when using that Module, Adobe Professionals surely have to be the final arbitrator of what is best for everyone, If you can give us what we want and still meet the needs of the general community and your own organisation then either go ahead and do it or just say it cannot be done, no matter what is said here you will in any case do what makes the best business sense.
  
Photo of Philip Crane

Philip Crane

  • 1 Post
  • 1 Reply Like
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Sub Folders In Presets.

I have a lot of presets and when it comes to organisation Lightroom is not my friend. Surely the organisation of presets should be a priority for the application/program. Yes folders of presets are good but when you buy collections and they are in 15/20 different types it would be nice to have your main folder (preset creator) then within that folder for example folders grunge, vintage, etc etc.
Photo of Jodi Cook

Jodi Cook

  • 2 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
I agree..... I’ve bought presets from many sellers..... sometimes 10 different packages from one seller. For example: I bought ten different preset packages from XYZ each with a different name, like wedding, baby blues, vintage, grunge, pretty purple, etc..... I’d like to make one folder that is by xyz snd the put all the sub folders under xyz. Nd close it up.... then there is abc company and the same issues.... I want one folder that says abc.... and then out all the different packaged presets (in there folders) under abc folder! I use about 5 companies I like to buy from so if I had them all closed, I’d only have 5 folders showing up...... the way it is now, I have probably 50 folders under my presets that I have to click on..... then search that folder.... for the actual one preset I want! It gets old scrolling!
Photo of Nathan Andrews

Nathan Andrews

  • 1 Post
  • 1 Reply Like
So glad I have found this but really surprised there are so few votes.
Please, Adobe can something be done about making our time on your product more efficient. It would be greatly appreciated by many people.