Lightroom Classic: Preview size limit

  • 8
  • Problem
  • Updated 3 weeks ago
  • (Edited)
I am using lightroom Classic CC 7.0.1 and Camera Raw 10.0. Is there a limit to how large a file can be and still be able to create a 1:1 preview?  I have a 16 bit TIFF that is 26246 x 2899 pixels.  When I try to view it at 1:1 or any other size except "Fit" in the Library module, it refuses to draw (Fill works so long as I don't try 1:1 first).  I just see a grey box. I can view it in any size in the Develop module or Photoshop, but not the Library module.  Does the Library module have a size limit, and if so, what is it?  I also checked the Task Manager and it showed the CPU and disk had little or no activity, and memory was using 15GB which is not unusual on my system. I have 3.67 Terabytes of unused disk space. I have an i7 6700K processor running at 4.00GHz and 32GB of DDR4 Sdram memory and Windows 10 version 1703.
Photo of Anders Sorensen

Anders Sorensen

  • 19 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
  • Frustrated

Posted 10 months ago

  • 8
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1069 Posts
  • 343 Reply Likes
I'm seeing the same behavior using LR Classic on Windows 7. See this post: https://forums.adobe.com/message/9956218#9956218
Photo of John R. Ellis

John R. Ellis, Champion

  • 3694 Posts
  • 966 Reply Likes
I observe the same behavior with a 20K x 13K PSD (260 megapixels) on LR CC 7.0.1 / Windows 10 running in a virtual machine, but only if I repeatedly and quickly click between Fit, Fill, 1:1, and 1:8.

On MacOS 10.12.6, I don't see the grey box, but I do get a huge virtual-memory leak after a minute or so of such clicking in Library Loupe:



Do you see a similar increase in virtual memory in Windows Task Manager? It may be that an allocation of virtual memory is failing on Windows, causing the grey box.
Photo of Anders Sorensen

Anders Sorensen

  • 19 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
When I try to render the image at 1:1, I see no increase in CPU, Memory, or disk activity.  Virtual memory is set at 101 GB on Disk D, but with 32GB or RAM. I have never seen any evidence of paging or the use of Disk D.  I have added a screen capture to show you what I see.
Photo of Anders Sorensen

Anders Sorensen

  • 19 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
The file is 435 MB in size.
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1069 Posts
  • 343 Reply Likes
John, I don't think it has anything to do with memory. A 10000x10000 (100 megapixels) file and 16000x2000 (32 Megapixels) file render at 1:1 Zoom view with  no issues, but a 16500x2000 (33 megapixels) file shows nothing in the Loupe with 9.1 GB memory available. Weird!

Photo of Anders Sorensen

Anders Sorensen

  • 19 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
I have trouble the first time I try it.  I  have tried closing Lightroom and then reopening it and still had the problem right away.
Photo of John R. Ellis

John R. Ellis, Champion

  • 3694 Posts
  • 966 Reply Likes
" I don't think it has anything to do with memory."

It may have something to do with virtual memory.  As I described on Mac, I can pretty quickly get LR to allocate 62 GB of virtual memory before MacOS warns me it's run out.   LR isn't actually reading or writing this memory, since on a machine with 16 GB of physical memory, that would take a very long time, with lots of paging to and from disk.

My hypothesis: LR is incorrectly requesting that the operating system reserve very large blocks of virtual memory, but LR isn't actually using that virtual memory (not writing into it or reading from it). Maybe LR is getting an error from Windows when it requests more virtual memory and shows the grey box as a result.

It's been years since I read about Windows virtual memory, but I (very) vaguely recall that Task Manager may not show such reserved virtual memory until it is actually touched by the program.

Here's what the memory situation looks like on Mac:

Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1069 Posts
  • 343 Reply Likes
Virtual memory is showing at ~0.5% usage with 12GB system memory and the Windows 7 Page File set to 12.5GB.

DirectX support was added in LR Classic and causing many different screen rendering issues. Perhaps this is another one caused by DirectX incompatibility. I used the below procedure (#2) to force LR Classic to use OpenGL and not DirectX, but the blank preview screen is still present with the 16500x2000 image file at 1:1 Zoom view with Use Graphics Processor checked or uncheked.

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/crash-gpu-directx-enabled.html

Do you see the same 1:1 rendering issue using a 16500x2000 image file?

Photo of John R. Ellis

John R. Ellis, Champion

  • 3691 Posts
  • 963 Reply Likes
This morning I see the rendering issue occur pretty quickly on Windows 10 with both a 16.5K x 2K PSD and a 20K x 13K PSD.  I don't observe Task Manager showing virtual memory increasing unboundedly like it does on Mac.  

However, it may be that on Windows, the hypothesized incorrect VM request from LR is being immediately rejected by Windows with an error, causing the grey screen -- if this is the case, then it definitely won't show up in Task Manager.  Or it could be that WIndows is allocated the VM but that Task Manager isn't reporting this allocated but untouched VM.

Or it could be that the VM leak on Mac is unrelated to the rendering issue on Windows.
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1069 Posts
  • 343 Reply Likes
Regardless of what's causing the 1:1 Preview rendering issue in LR Classic I'm not seeing it in LR CC 2015.12. It displays the 1:1 Preview for all of these file dimensions including the maximum combined limits of 65000x8259 (536.835 Megapixels).

A file with dimensions of 65000x8260 or 65001x8259 will NOT open in LR CC 2015.12 or Classic so the actual limits appear to be 65,000 Pixels/Edge or 536.870912 Megapixels (2_29th Power).


(Edited)
Photo of John R. Ellis

John R. Ellis, Champion

  • 3691 Posts
  • 963 Reply Likes
"the actual limits appear to be 65,000 Pixels/Edge or 536.870912 Megapixels (2_29th Power)"

Adobe's documentation says "Files with dimensions greater than 65,000 pixels per side or larger than 512 megapixels.".  I think they were thinking of "mega" defined to be 2^20, but as far as I can tell, nearly everyone else in digital photography defines it as 10^6.  The definition of 2^20 is still used by some (including Windows) when referring to bytes.  See here for more nerdliness: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megabyte
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1069 Posts
  • 343 Reply Likes
The 65,000 pixel per side limit appears to be an arbitrary decimal value and the 512 Megapixel limit the binary value 2^29 (536.870912 Megapixels).

Any size image file with a side >65,000 pixels or >536.870912 Megapixels will not Import into LR.
Photo of Anders Sorensen

Anders Sorensen

  • 19 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
My image is much smaller than the stated limit, but will not draw in the Library module, but it will in the Develop module.  My machine does not show any use of the virtual memory.  One interesting possible explanation may be that it has something to do with the graphics card.  Adobe documentation states that only the Develop module uses the graphics card for GPU acceleration.  So, there is a difference between how the library module renders images and how the Develop module does it, and how the GPU is used.
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1069 Posts
  • 343 Reply Likes
That's true, but if 'Use Graphics Processor' in LR Preferences is unchecked the Library and Develop modules should use the same rendering and display path. Unfortunately doing that doesn't "fix" this 1:1 Preview rendering issue. Adobe added DirectX support in LR Classic, which may be the root cause of this issue. I found a similar issue at the below post, which is now marked 'In Progress' so Adobe is aware of the issue and working on a solution.

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lr-classic-noise-reduction-effect-not-display...
Photo of Dwight McCann

Dwight McCann

  • 8 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
The issue in the noise reduction thread is apparently fixed but the problem I report below has not been fixed.
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1069 Posts
  • 343 Reply Likes
The noise reduction issue in that thread has NOT been fixed and is still marked as 'In Progress.' So if related to your issue then your issue is not fixed either.
Photo of Dwight McCann

Dwight McCann

  • 8 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
Interesting ... I thought a couple of posters over in Family said it was resolved.  But you are certainly correct that my issue has not been resolved ... but now that I realize that it is not an issue that Adobe care about I'm just going to turn off GPU until I get another update.
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1069 Posts
  • 343 Reply Likes
I think they meant it was resolved when they unchecked Use GPU, which was one of the suggestions. Adobe is working on a fix, which will hopefully be in the next update.
Photo of Dwight McCann

Dwight McCann

  • 8 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
Only time will tell!  As a 35+ year programmer on mainframes and mini's for the University of California I believe two factors influence what code is added/modified: the programmers want to work on new exciting features and could care less about program errors which has a workaround; and pressure from Sales for new features with not a single thought given to the errors they have already sold! Without solid competition, Adobe has no motivation to allocate resources to address coding changes that don't result in revenue.
 
Photo of Anders Sorensen

Anders Sorensen

  • 19 Posts
  • 7 Reply Likes
That is quite evident on the database management side.  Lightroom's abilities as a database manager are mediocre at best and I can't think of any improvements they have made since Lightroom 1.  They seem to view it as a RAW processor with just enough Database management ability to get by.
Photo of Dwight McCann

Dwight McCann

  • 8 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
Yup, they really need an 'Advanced' facility for the database.  All the tools are there in the code support, they just need a frontend.
Photo of Dwight McCann

Dwight McCann

  • 8 Posts
  • 2 Reply Likes
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled LR Classic: Large files not displaying 1:1 in Library module..

Lightroom CC Classic 7.1 [1148620], Win 10 Pro, Nvidia GTX 1050 [23.21.13.9077]. With GPU enabled, some very large images will not display 1:1 in the main window. They will display 1:1 in window 2 Loupe. They will display in Develop module. Turning off GPU acceleration resolves the problem. I have tried switching color monitor profiles to sRGB without effect.
Photo of Alison Champernowne

Alison Champernowne

  • 1 Post
  • 0 Reply Likes
For what it's worth, I've just tried disabling GPU acceleration and it didn't solve my problem. Running Classic CC release 7.5 with Camera RAW 10.5.