Lightroom CC: Makes virtual copies in Lightroom Classic

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  • Updated 7 months ago
  • (Edited)
Adjustments made in classic are not exported to CC. Lightroom CC makes virtual copies in Lightroom Classic. 

TEST:
Lightroom Classic: Made adjustments on all 3 pics.  Manually added metadata into XMP file in Classic for pic A. Pics B & C untouched. 
 Lightroom CC: Opened and added folder containing 3 pics(A, B, & C). Adjustments were seen in Pic A (XMP Added pic), B & C had no adjustments added.
Reopened Lightroom Classic and 3 new virtual copies were automatically added into folder. Pic A had adjustments on both pics. B & C had 2 stacked pics, one with adjustments and one without.
Pics were added in LR Mobile - A had adjustments where B & C had none.
Synchronized Folder in Lightroom Classic - No changes noted in Lightroom CC.

This just started about a week ago. Any Idea which setting was changed or whats happening?
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Thomas Miller

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Posted 8 months ago

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Victor Porof

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This is always happening to me as well for seemingly inexplicable reasons. No idea why, and it’s one of the reasons I switched to the non-classic version entirely.
(Edited)
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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Thomas, there's an important piece of information missing, and that concerns the 3 existing images in Classic. Were those images already synced with the cloud before you did the second step, i.e. added the folder containing those images to LRCC?

If they weren't already synced, then the behaviour you described would be unchanged (i.e. expected) from the way it was when LRCC was first released back in October last year.

But it they were already synced before adding the folder to LRCC then the behaviour you describe is unexpected and I'd need to do some further testing to see if that behaviour has indeed changed.
(Edited)
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Thomas Miller

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They were not synced to the cloud before the test i performed. I did after to see if there were any changes. - No Change - adjustments not there

Before the problem began, I WAS synchronizing the folder before adding to LRCC.

The problem began a few days ago(After 3-30-2018) but not sure . The only thing different as far as I know was: 
1) New Update from Creative Cloud 
2) Combined a folder after a tethered shoot. By Drop & Dragging pictures from inside "Studio       Session" folder into dated folder"4-4-2018" then removing "Studio Folder".
3) Installed X-rite Color Checker preset on 3-30-2018

I don't know if this additional info helps you or has to do with the problem.
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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Before the problem began, I WAS synchronizing the folder before adding to LRCC. 


To me, that sentence completely explains the problem you initially reported. Going over the sequence again, this is how I understand (from a lot of testing) the process is working:

Step 1: Adjusted 3 unsynced images in a folder in LR Classic. Edited all 3, but only wrote to XMP for one of them (pic A). So at that point the folder contained the same 3 files, but pic A additionally either had an XMP sidecar file (if pic A is proprietary Raw), or had the Classic edits written directly into the XMP section of the pic A's file header (if it's not a proprietary Raw). Pics B and C exist in their original form, i.e. unchanged in any way.

Step 2: Added the folder containing the 3 pics to LRCC. Like LR Classic, LRCC will read and apply any (LR created) edit data contained within a file's XMP (in sidecar or file header). So it's therefore no surprise that LRCC shows the updated pic A, but does not show any updates to pics B and C, because no such edit data exists in those files.

Step 3: this is where the subtleties begin. When you launched LR Classic, and the catalog is enabled, Classic communicates with the cloud and learns that those 3 new pics have been added to the cloud, and thus need to be downloaded into the Classic catalog. However, in this case Classic's duplicates detection realises that those 3 pics already exist in the catalog, but it does not know if the edit state in LRCC is the same as the edit state in LR Classic. In this situation, the default action is to create Virtual Copies of those 3 files to which are applied the edits found in the cloud versions. So the original files show the LR Classic edits, the VCs show the LRCC edits, i.e. pic A original and VC should be the same, pics B & C originals will show different edits to their VC counterparts. Being VCs, they are stacked in Classic with the original Classic files, but you should also see that only the 3 VC's are sync-enabled, i.e. they will show the double-arrowhead sync icon in the Grid thumbnails. The original 3 files remain not synced.

LRCC mobile should obviously show the same edit state as LRCC desktop, as that's what is held in the cloud.

If the images that you adjusted in Classic had already been synced with the cloud before you added the folder to LRCC, then obviously whatever edits you made in Classic would be synced to the cloud and so would appear in LRCC desktop. When you then add that folder to LRCC, LRCC's own duplicates detection will realise that those 3 images are already in the cloud (albeit, coming from Classic they only exist in the cloud in Smart Preview form). In this situation it goes ahead and "imports" the 3 files, which are then uploaded to the cloud where they are used to replace the Smart Previews. The cloud database (and thus all the LRCC apps) is updated for those 3 pics to show that an original is now held in the cloud rather than the former Smart Preview. In Classic, nothing visually changes, the 3 originals remain synced as they were, the only "under the covers" change is that the Classic database is updated to reflect that the originals of those 3 pics, rather than the Smart Previews, are now held in the cloud.


So as you can see, what you initially described is exactly how I would have expected it to happen if the images were not initially synced. As I said, I tested this behaviour extensively in the early days of LRCC, though I haven't retested using 7.3 to make sure the Classic part is still the same. I'll try to schedule some time over the next fews days and will report back.
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Thomas Miller

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If the images that you adjusted in Classic had already been synced with the cloud before you added the folder to LRCC, then obviously whatever edits you made in Classic would be synced to the cloud and so would appear in LRCC desktop.

Thank you for your quick and thorough response. Everything makes sense and I have a better understanding of how things work. 

How do I carry over the adjustments made in LR Classic to LRCC? It worked before then something changed. Is there a setting I may have accidentally changed?
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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Could you explain a little more about what's not working? If an image is synced between Classic and the cloud, any edits you make should also appear in LRCC when the syncing is complete. Some metadata (notably keywords and location data) does NOT sync between Classic and the cloud, however.

If the image is not sync enabled in Classic, and you've added it to LRCC, you'll end up in that VC situation I mentioned. If you want to be seeing the same edits in both places, best to sync to Classic before adding to LRCC.

If something else, could you explain a bit further?
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Thomas Miller

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I checked - sync is enabled in LR Classic.
When image is synced between Classic and the cloud,  edits do not appear in LRCC when the syncing is complete because there is 1 or 2 pictures always syncing. The 1 pic syncing was going on for a few months but never affected anything before this week. 
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Thomas Miller

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Checked on forum  for "syncing one photo" problem. Wanted to see if this was the problem.

Fix was:  Edit - Preferences -Sync Settings and under Sync Activity, click on each syncing picture. This would bring up the Library grid view, where I would click "sync" (double-arrowhead sync icon) or by removing the picture from Lightroom catalog. 

LR Classic is still picking 1 random pic to sync and I keep removing them by click "sync" (double-arrowhead sync icon). 
 
This has not helped the original problem of  adjustments made in classic are not copied to CC. 

Any Ideas ?
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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I think you need to clear up that syncing issue, only then can we concentrate on why you're not seeing edits sync. Has that syncing stopped yet, or are you still getting single images "sticking"?
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Thomas Miller

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Syncing problem gone !
Any ideas for original problem of  adjustments made in classic not copied to CC.  
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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Explain a bit more about this original problem. If an image is synced, then edits should also sync, so are you saying that you have synced images that appear differently in Classic compared with LRCC?
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Thomas Miller

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Yes, when I make adjustments in LR Classic they are not carried over to LRCC.

I have tried "save metadata to  file" and "synchronize folder" on individual pictures as well on small test folders. Still no adjustments in LRCC.

I understand Keywords do not transfer, but it is my star ratings, flags, and develop settings I am concerned with.  These were working before but something changed - IDK

UPDATE:   Made new collection in LR Classic. Collection and pics with adjustments synced to LRCC.

Still trying to get folders and pics in LR Classic to transfer to LRCC
(Edited)
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Thomas Miller

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Anything?
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Thomas Miller

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Still having this problem.
When I import pics to Lightroom CC from LR Classic -SOMETIMES virtual copies are made back into LR Classic folder, SOMETIMES it doesn't make virtual copies into original folder.
Once LR Classic starts making virtual copies, it makes them for all previous folders that were synced before with no VC' s . Pic edits were synced before into LRCC without VC's in Lightroom Classic.
Am I missing something on import or is a preference setting that needs to be checked
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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When I import pics to Lightroom CC from LR Classic
What do you mean by that? You can sync pics from Classic to the cloud, which will eventually appear in LRCC, you can migrate an entire catalog from Classic to LRCC, or you can import pics into LRCC which have already been imported into Classic. Which method are you referring to?
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Thomas Miller

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When I import pics into LRCC which have already been imported into Classic.
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Yves Crausaz

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Il ne faut pas le faire !. Si des photos ont été importées dans LR Classic, et que vous souhaitez les avoir dans LRCC, il faut les placer dans une collection et synchroniser la collection. On ne peut avoir qu'un seul caatalogue de référence est ce catalogue doit être celui de LR Classic.
Si on souhaite que LR CC soit le catalogue de référence, LR Classic doit être abandonné.
Ce sont 2 logiciels différents.

Do not do it! If photos have been imported into LR Classic, and you want to have them in LRCC, you have to put them in a collection and synchronize the collection. One can only have one catalog of reference is this catalog must be that of LR Classic.
If you want LR CC to be the reference catalog, LR Classic must be abandoned.
These are 2 different software.
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Thomas Miller

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Thank you- I will just use collections now
(Edited)
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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All I can do is refer you back to my earlier post, covering what I have observed to be the behaviour when you add images to LRCC which are already in the synced LR Classic catalog. To be clear, any user attempting to work such an integrated workflow will have to be meticulous in their approach, and even then there may well still be other vagaries which haven't been completely uncovered or understood. It's a complicated, and unsupported workflow, so it can be very difficult to work out how/why some of these things happen. 

All of which is a long way of saying that I don't know how I can be of more help with this, some of what you describe I can understand, but other things I just don't. Hopefully someone else may be able to help.
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Thomas Miller

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I didn't realize you couldn't use both LRCC and Lightroom Classic at the same time- although it did work until recently.
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Jim Wilde, Champion

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Not following you....you can run both at the same time and even at the same time on the same computer. What makes you think you can't? Are you getting an error message when you try?
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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> I didn't realize you couldn't use both LRCC and Lightroom Classic at the same time

It's not an officially supported workflow, so you'll likely have read recommendations not to do so, but it's possible.