Lightroom cc 2015.5.1 is giving me the wrong Lens Profile for DNG files converted to TIF in Ps CC.

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If I take a Lightroom CC .DNG file into Ps and saved it there as a .TIF; back in Lr it displays an incorrect Lens Profile and the correct profile is not available in the Model or Profile fields. The correct profile (I think) is in Program Data and is an option in Lr for DNG files. So it seems that Lr doesn't recognise exactly which profile is correct for the .TIF file. My Macro lens has a similar problem but not so bad. The default setting is a 100mm lense which is not a Macro, but the Macro lense option is available. Are these problems fixable?
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Marsha Levine

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Posted 2 years ago

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Simon Chen, Principal Computer Scientist

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Yes. DNG are raw files; whereas the TIF are not. 

Most Adobe shipped lens profiles are built for raws; not for non-raws like TIF/JPEG.

There is a way to make a lens profile built for raw to non-raw formats. It will work but not always the right thing to do.

When you send the DNG to PS to edit, have you already applied the lens correction? There is no need to reapply the same lens profile to the edited TIF coming back from PS because the lens profile has already been applied. Doing it again would correct the lens correction twice. If you also crop/scale/transform the image inside TIF for some reason, it would typically not the right thing to do to apply any lens profiles.

Here is some description on how you can turn a lens profile built for raw into one that would work for JPEG/TIFFS. Don't do that on the original lens profile, edit a copy.

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=79485.10;wap2
(Edited)
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Marsha Levine

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Yes I know that DNG files are raw and TIF files are not. Your other comments are much more useful.

What this means, if I understand you, is that the lens profile should be applied before a .dng file is taken into Ps for further editing. And even if you can't see the name of the lens profile that was set when the file was a dng, it is still there after the file has been saved as a tif. OK.

However, there is another lens profile problem. I have a rather old Canon Macro (EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro).  A couple of months ago this profile was in the Adobe lens profile list. I still have images with this profile already set.  But this profile seems to have been removed. I've just checked some older files that I took with this macro lens. The Exif info is correct, but it appears almost random whichever 100mm lens profile on the list is selected by Adobe for this lens. It appears that I will have to check every photo taken with this lens to find out which lens profile has been assigned and correct it if I can find the old profile.

I'm sure that there are still many people using this lens. Is there any easy way to get the profile back. I only noticed the problem yesterday, but am wondering if this change came about in the course of Adobe's most recent update. I'd be very grateful for any further help you can give me with this problem.

Thanks very much for your help.
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Steve Sprengel, Champion

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Lens profiles apply to raw files or non-raw files, not both. 

The lens you have only has a profile for raw files. 

You can only apply the lens profile when the image is in raw format.  Since your TIF is not in raw format then there is no lens profile.

It has nothing to do with the name saved in the file or the profile saved in the file, it has to do with the file is not in raw format anymore. 

For the other issue, with some 100mm images showing the correct profile and some not, can you upload one that is ok and one that is no ok to somewhere like dropbox.com and post a public download link in a reply, here, and someone can take a look to figure out why one is working and one is not.

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Marsha Levine

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Thanks for your reply.

OK I understand it: the profiles in Lr should not be applied to non-RAW files.

As far as my 100mm macro lens issue is concerned. I will do as you suggest. I will try to find a couple of DNG files with incorrect and correct profile assignments. And save them in Dropbox. I'll get back to you (plur.) when I have sorted that.
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Marsha Levine

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I'm back.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3287wu9emxyno5n/AACGWg2JBfjtNQ3RSGoNOjZxa?dl=0

There are 6 files in this folder. One screen capture; four files with incorrect profiles, 1 file with a correct profile. I'm wondering if this problem could be related to my upgrade to Adobe CC for photographers. Or is it possible that I had assumed that the profiles were the correct ones for my lenses and so I didn't look carefully enough? I'm beginning to wonder if I will have a problem with all assigned profiles.

Thanks again for your help.
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Steve Sprengel, Champion

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Your screenshot shows the overriding issue:  your lens DOES NOT have a lens profile.

The two 100mm f/2.8 Macro profiles are model II optical design, one L and one non-L.

I'm guessing your lens is the older Model I optical design, from 1990, and as such, the model II profiles may not be correct. 

When a lens profile doesn't have an exact match--None being shown for all three match parameters when you choose Auto, if you do choose the manufacturer, Canon in this case, Adobe will choose a "close match" as the profile to use. 

For the six DNGs you shared, some have the 100mm f/2 profile assigned and some have the 100mm f/2.8 assigned.  Since the images are separated in time by several years there's probably no way to know what steps were used to assign each image its profile, when.  Currently, with all six your DNGs, show None with Lens Setup Auto selected, and if I choose Canon as the manufacturer, I get the 100mm f/2 as the close match for all.  So there's no inconsistency at this point in time.  There may have been over the last few years, though, depending on which lens profiles were available to choose from and what the "close match" algorithm was looking at.

My question to Adobe would be why does "close match" choose the 100mm f/2 profile at the moment, when there are seemingly two lenses, 100mm f/2.8 (L and non-L) that appear to be a closer match.  I don't know what the algorithm is looking at, but the f/2 lens profile is the first of three 100mm profiles so maybe it only looks at the focal-length and ignores the maximum aperture (f/2 vs f/2.8) and just chooses the first one of whatever subset it finds. 

Can you confirm whether your lens is a model II 100mm f/2.8 L or non-L or is it the older model I design?

Do you have a good sense that one of the newer model II profiles is actually correcting the geometric distortion properly?  Have you taken a closeup photo of graph paper and then a further photo of a brick wall to confirm that the distortion is corrected properly with the existing model II f/2.8 profiles?   There is also the question of whether vignetting is corrected approximately right for near and far subjects with any of the three 100mm profiles.

If you believe that one of the profiles is doing a good job at correcting distortion and vignetting, even if it doesn't quite match your lens, then you can have LR choose it as the Default profile even though it doesn't quite match.

You do this in two steps:  by opening a new image that doesn't have any custom settings applied, choosing the profile you want, choose Lens Setup - Save New Lens Profile Defaults.  Then the second step, would be to use that same image without any customized settings, set Default as the Lens Profile Setup and the Press the Alt key then click the Set Defaults... and choose update to current settings.  It's important that your current photo not have any non-default settings except for the Lens Profile Setup set to Default.

(Edited)
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Marsha Levine

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Thanks so much for all that.

I bought my 100mm F/2.8 Macro around 1996, so I think that you are right. I think that it was the version 1 of that lense (though it doesn't seem to say so).

Also, while doing some EOS 6D exploration yesterday, I rediscovered the Menu item that allows it to install a lens profile in-camera. When I display a 100mm Macro file image (as opposed to a much newer wide-angle lens for example), the 6D says that it has no profile for this lense.

To be honest, in the case of my garden life images, which have no straightlines and not much sky, adding the various 100mm profiles, doesn't appear to make much difference to the image. But now that I understand the problem I might find that the absence of a profile really is a problem, so I'm going to explore your suggestions further.

I'll have to be more careful when I hit 'Enable Profile Corrections'.

Thanks for your help.
(Edited)