Lightroom/Camera Raw: Lens Profiles only work on raw/DNG files Distortion Slider functionality limited

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DO NOT MERGE THIS THREAD

Lens profiles are only available on RAW files. However there is a list of (useless) "default" profiles that is available to any image format.  Additionally the distortion slider now has limited functionality. 

In the most recent update to version 7.3.1 the limiting of the Lens Distortion tool has made it impossible to correct lens distortion for anyone not using RAW image formats. As an editor this has made it impossible for me to correct image distortion from some of my clients. 

Where I used to be able to add a lens profile to an image then make large adjustments with the distortion slider, then I could alley them to multiple images vis the Sync option. I can now only make small adjustments that are not significant enough to make up for the lack of lens profiles in the "default" options available to non-RAW images.  To correct these distortions I have to do each individual file in Photoshop. This has INCREASED, not decreased production time dramatically. 

Either add ALL profiles to the availability of all image formats or restore the functionality to the distortion slider. In reality both should happen, the profiles should be available across all formats AND the distortion slider should work as it did in previous versions. 
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Michael Albany

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  • Getting more angry by the minute.

Posted 3 months ago

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Here's my reply form the other topic it was merged to:

Lens profiles are only available on RAW files. However there is a list of (useless) "default" profiles that is available to any image format.
Nothing has changed with lens profiles in LR 7.3.1 on my Windows 7 system. In the past lens profiles for non raw image files (JPEG) were only provided for "select" lenses. The vast majority of lenses only have a lens profile that is usable with raw files. I have no idea what you mean by, "there is a list of (useless) "default" profiles that is available to any image format.   Where are you seeing these lens profiles?

In the most recent update to 7.3.1 the limiting of the Lens Distortion tool has made it impossible to correct lens distortion for anyone not using RAW image formats.
If you're talking about the 'Distortion' slider in the Lens Corrections> Manual panel it works the same as in the past in LR 7.3.1 on my Windows 7 system.

Something is wrong with your LR 7.3.1 installation. Please try opening the Creative Cloud app, uninstall LR, restart your system, and reinstall LR 7.3.1.
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Michael, 

I just checked the behavior of the Manual Distortion slider in the Lens Correction Panel in Lightroom CC2015.14 and Lightroom Classic CC 7.3.1. On a JPEG file with no lens profile available, I see no difference in the range of the slider. 

See attached for examples of 7.3.1 showing the range of the slider. 



The above three images are at -100, 0, 100  using Lightroom Classic CC on a JPEG file with Unknown lens using the Lens Correction, Manual tab, Distortion Slider. 

The range of distortion looks identical to CC2015.14. 

Can you share some example images showing what you are seeing? 
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Michael Albany

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I'm done. Support verified the issue, what more can I say. You guys are helpful but not Adobe employees. Well Rick you may be but the fact is during a screen share session the support rep confirmed it and that was that. close the issue if you want, do whatever you want. I don't have time to argue, I have 450+ images to edit manually. 
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Michael, 

I would be happy to conduct a connect session with you if you would like to demonstrate what you are seeing. If we have an issue - whether system-specific or a bug regarding the distortion slider, I would like to get to the bottom of it.  Additionally, I would be happy to review the notes of your support call. Let me know if you would like to proceed. 
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Michael Albany

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I have pissed away almost 4 hours on this issue. I can't afford to address it further. 

Side note, Adobe needs a feedback portal rather than a community. The "community' is a waste of time 90% of the time. Support at Adobe has been notoriously horrible for years. As a professional photographer and image editor for more than 18 years professionally and 20 years before that as an amateur, I am a bit tired of it. As soon as a viable alternative arises, I will strongly consider it. I am too old for this shit. 
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The "community" triages issues for Adobe, and many times the "community" can intercede and Adobe doesn't need to use their time for the issue.   Spending 3 hours on the phone with support was not happy time, I'm sure.  I wonder if they were just telling you what you wanted to hear to get you off the phone. 

Since the claim in the original post, that JPG lens profile correction support has somehow been diminished in 7.3.1 isn't generally the case, there must be some special situation that is occurring or we don't understand exactly what you're seeing. 

It would be helpful to have the exact image you're seeing the issue with, to confirm there is a special case where what you're describing does happen.

For a random JPG on my computer, if I enable lens profile corrections but there is not JPG-specific profile for the camera that shot the JPG, the lens profile Make field says None and neither the Distortion or Vignetting sliders are active, because there is no profile.  This would also happen if the profile files that normally exist are missing or if they are inaccessible due to a permissions issue.

If I choose a profile of make DJI which selects a profile that only has distortion correction not vignetting, then only the Distortion slider is active.

If I choose a profile of make Canon or Nikon or Sigma, some sort of DSLR camera, then both the Distortion and Vignetting sliders are active, because the profile has corrections for both of those.

In any of these cases, including the Make of None, the Distortion slider is active on the Manual area.

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Michael Albany

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This is a very poor support model. As a former IT Support director for a company almost as large as Adobe, I would never approve this type of support. It removes the company and its employees from responsibility for their own work. It makes it difficult for professionals who use the software to run their businesses to get immediate answers to pressing questions that allow them to stay in business. It also creates animosity towards Adobe. They currently have the worst support model that I have ever encountered. 
As to your answer to the issue at hand. I am no longer responding to "answer" to a bug report/feature request (call it what you like). 
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Rikk, at the other post he mentions using a Mac system and it was verified by Adobe Support on a Mac system. I'm on Windows 7 and LR 7.3.1 works as expected so it may be a Mac only issue.
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The examples I posted are from Mac OS 10.13.4  I am not able to replicate Michael's issue. 
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eartho

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Dang Michael, a rep from Adobe offers to spend time with you to troubleshoot the issue and you blow him off? Sounds to me like you're more interested in drama than fixing the problem. 
I've tried reproducing your issue using OSX and the latest LR and ACR and they're both working as expected. 
I think the issue you're having is that you're applying a lens profile to your image which has limits to the range of distortion... ie 50mm+. What i don't understand is why you're applying a lens profile at all if you're editing jpg? The proper workflow in your situation is to simply do a manual distortion correction in LR and ignore applying a lens profile.
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Michael Albany

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Rikk, You still want to help, try this one for me. https://forums.adobe.com/message/10387628#10387628 More Photoshop but I think the editing in LR is the source of the issue. Just a guess. 
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Michael, that Photoshop cropping issue has nothing to do with lens profile/distortion slider issue we are discussing here. In fact I provided a suggestion for you at the below link to use John Eliis' Any Crop plugin, which you marked as the correct answer. I assume you tried the plugin and it works to produce an exact 800x533 crop. No one at that post suggested using a PS Droplet. We already agree that using a plugin is not "fixing" the native LR issue. I use many LR plugins and don't think twice about it if they work and are an expedient means to the end objective. If the Any Crop plugin is no longer producing the 800x533 crop size I suggest contacting John Ellis. He is very responsive about reported issues with his plugins.

With all due respect you're making a lot of extra works for yourself. We can probably resolve the lens profile issue discussed here since it appears to be caused by something on your Mac system. Rikk can't duplicate it on his Mac system and neither can I on my Windows 7 system using LR 7.3.1. A LR uninstall and reinstall is my original recommendation using the Creative Cloud app. You can choose the uninstall option to keep your settings, which will not disturb your current Preferences settings and plugins. It takes but a few minutes!

https://forums.adobe.com/message/10034709#10034709
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Michael Albany

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Todd,

Actually I am not the person who marked that as the correct answer,  Someone alas did. I have removed that just now. In fact the Any Crop tool does not function as I need it too. It crops to the size by taking the chunk of the image defined by the AnyCrop tool.  It does not reduce the size of the image and crop out the excess and just reduce the image size. If I select center it crops the section of the image that is 800x533. Does it work? Technically, just not the way I need it to. 

The profile issue is A) a feature request, which is how I listed it in the first place. B) a secondary issue that is not that bloody important yet everyone says they can help me. I will restate it as maybe I didn't say it correctly. 

All lens profiles should be available for all formats, not just raw images with meta data. The "defaults" are insignificant and useless. Additionally; the distortion slider is not working as it used to in previous versions when using existing default profiles. 

The two issues are in conjunction. period. They may or may not be related, and honestly, at this point I really don't care! The cropping issue is more important to me. The cropping/resizing issue is an actual issue and support doesn't want to trouble shoot why an action is getting a bad result because, and I quote, "well there isn't an error message so it isn't broken."

I have a deadline of tomorrow afternoon. I can't even express the issue properly via text as it is pretty much a visual thing. This is why I created a new thread and invited Rikk to it. As it is more a PS thing, it may be outside is area, but it didn't hurt to ask. 
Lastly, could it be related to the lens profiles, Until I can eliminate it, it is possible because the images that create the white edges all have been edited with said lens profile tool. Its not the only commonality, but it is one. 
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Michael, you're understandably frustrated, but you are talking to an Adobe employee (Rikk) on this thread, and he has direct access to the engineers.

Unfortunately phone support has been known to tell porkies when they can't explain a problem, to get people off the phone, so them "verifying" the issue won't help get it fixed. The engineers need to be able to reproduce it to fix it.

I've also tried to reproduce it on my Mac, and I can't find a difference from earlier versions either. If you can provide an image that displays the issues, and exact steps that you're taking, then the engineers can fix it. Or take Rikk up on his offer to screen share with you, so he can see it and work out how the engineers can reproduce it.
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Michael Albany

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Victoria,

The frustration is not with this issue alone. The frustration is with a poor support model that does not support my business. I posted this as a feature request. How it became a problem issue, no idea. The slider functionality changed. Support acknowledge that and I mentioned it in the first message. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. The fact is I really don't give a ..... At this point I can change my work flow to use profiles before I do anything else, maybe even on import, we shall see. 

I am more frustrated with getting exact sizes (odd as they may be) out of either LR or PS, neither of which is able to handle these exacting specs. See my reply to Todd above your post. 
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Yeah, I understand the frustration with the support model. Unfortunately I can't help with that.

But if the slider functionality changed, that's a bug rather than a feature request (it shouldn't change, because that would affect photos you'd already edited too) so that would be a serious issue.
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Actually I am not the person who marked that as the correct answer,  Someone alas did. I have removed that just now. In fact the Any Crop tool does not function as I need it too. It crops to the size by taking the chunk of the image defined by the AnyCrop tool.  It does not reduce the size of the image and crop out the excess and just reduce the image size. If I select center it crops the section of the image that is 800x533. Does it work? Technically, just not the way I need it to.
Michael, let's keep these two issues (feature request, bug, whatever) in separate posts. I will reply concerning the 800x533 cropping issue at the above referenced post in the Lightroom Classic CC forum. Please continue discussions concerning only the lens profile and Distortion slider control issue in this Photoshop Family forum post. That will help a lot to avoid confusion and find solutions for both issues. Thank you.

https://forums.adobe.com/message/10034709#10034709
(Edited)
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Michael Albany

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Other than inviting Rick and this last reply to you, I have been trying to do that. FYI I am on the phone with support and they may have found something. I will post in the other thread when we are done.
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Michael Albany

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Rikk bloodyauto correct...
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In spite of my repeated lobbying to Apple and Microsoft they refuse to add "Rikk" to the dictionary.

Regarding the white-space/crop issue you referenced earlier it may be related to this thread: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/i_cant_add_certain_custom_crop_ratios_in_ligh...  
And in no small part accounts for the existence of the Any Crop plugin from John Rellis. 

Probably you should create a separate thread here for further discussion. (I know you have one on the user to user forum but the engineers hang out here.)
(Edited)
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Michael Albany

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I spoke to support extensively yesterday and the issue is that when generating an action (later embedded in a Droplet), the action will generate a crop map based on pixel locations so "Start : 0.00x 0.00 End: 4800 x3600" for example. If you create the action on the largest or an larger image, smaller images will have white gaps in the "excess" areas. 
This is unlike Lightroom which will crop a relative area to a specific size. However LR has the rounding issue so exact sizes are a crap shoot. 

Rather than use AnyCrop I have chosen to use ON1 for the resizing. For me, its a little easier as I already own it, and I already use it for enlargements (it was born from Fractal back in the day). 
As for Microsoft and Apple, Americans. They (we) think they invented English! ;-)
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Safe to say you are operational again?
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Michael Albany

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getting there. A lot of catching up to do. 12 hours on the phone with support for something that in my opinion, should even be an issue, but certainly should have been answered faster, cost me a a lot of money. 

THanks