Lightroom 7.3: When changing presets the profile resets back to Adobe standard, even if profile isn't checked within that preset

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It has some terrible bugs in it. When changing presets the profile resets back to Adobe standard, even if profile isn't checked within that preset. It is making editing a real pain.
LR is also crashing. Please fix these bugs quick as I have tons of work to get done!
Is it possible to roll back a version? 7.3 can't be used in this state.
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Adam De-Ste-Croix

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Posted 3 months ago

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Adam De-Ste-Croix

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Lightroom 7.3.

It has some terrible bugs in it. When changing presets the profile resets back to Adobe standard, even if profile isn't checked within that preset. It is making editing a real pain.
LR is also crashing. Please fix these bugs quick as I have tons of work to get done!
Is it possible to roll back a version? 7.3 can't be used in this state.

Note: This conversation was created from a reply on: Lightroom Classic 7.3 is now available..
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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I'm not able to reproduce this. If I create a profile with "Treatment & Profile" unchecked and apply the preset, the profile is not changed.

Can you provide more detailed steps to reproduce or create a video of what you're doing so we can try and reproduce?
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Just Shot Me

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The only time I can reproduce something like what you are referring to is if the Preset has a Camera Profile included in it. Then when applying that preset it changes whatever camera profile you assign the image in the Profile section of the Basic panel.
I don't see an easy way of editing out that camera profile except to right click on the preset and select Show in Finder/Explorer (Mac/Win File Manager) and then open the XMP file in the text editor and remove the camera profile entry.
This only works for preset not created and supplied by Adobe.  Although if you go directly to the folder the Adobe supplied preset are in you can delete and or edit the XMP file.
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Adam De-Ste-Croix

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I don't have camera profiles in my presets and it is still causing a problem if the preset contains anything else in the basics panel.

I have realised that the functionality of the "treatment and profile" check box is actually the opposite of all the other checkboxes. If it is not set then it will change the profile back to adobe standard. If it is set then the profile stays as it was. Seems a bit odd to change the operation of this check box out of line with all the others.

Also the standard lightroom presest supplied by adobe can not be moved or deleted and they take up a lot of valuable real estate at the top of the presets panel. A lot of users will never use these and there needs to be an option to move or delete them.
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Adam De-Ste-Croix

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I cant do a video but have an easy example.

Produce a preset to change the profile to black and white.
Produce a separate preset to change the clarity to +10 only (nothing else checked)

Select first preset to get black and white profile.
Select second preset for clarity and the profile changes back to Adobe colour.

In the second preset nothing else has been set so nothing else should change. However, if you select "treatment and profile" in the second preset then the profile is not effected. That is the opposite functionality to all other check boxes!
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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I can reproduce that between B&W and Color, but only on JPEGs so far, not raw.
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Barrie Spence

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TIFs for me (it's rare for me to use a raw for a final image). 
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Rainer Plaschka

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Hello Victoria, i can reproduce the issue with raw.
I have Nates X-Chrome presets. In the presets-film section, there is a camera profile included (Nates Pure Tone camera profile). The 2nd section is X-Chrome developers and 3rd section is X-Chrome tone+paper.
And there the raw changes back to color.

Rainer
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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Thanks Rainer, the engineers are on it.
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Rainer Plaschka

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I downgraded to 7.2 (Classic LR version on win7). There come ́s no information from Adobe about, when they think to repair the BUUUUUGS of LR Classic 7.3! I am wondering, that the presets after downgrading have full function. They are not renamed after downgrading. (~ exist in the front of the name from the preset-file)?
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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> I am wondering, that the presets after downgrading have full function

Yes, 7.2 ignores the ~ so they're identical to the way they were before upgrading.
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Adam De-Ste-Croix

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Nope, the treatment and profile checkbox resets all the sliders so that is messed up too!
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Adam De-Ste-Croix

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I'm also finding that my midi-controller is all over the place and pretty much useless now too, so having to do it all the  s l o w  way.
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Just Shot Me

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So what you are saying is you select one Preset that has a camera profile in it then you select a second Preset and it wipes out the first presets camera profile. Is that correct?
If it is that would be Preset Stacking, laying one preset on top of another preset. I'm not sure that was ever the way LR worked. But I could be wrong as I only use preset sparingly and usually only as a Base for other adjustment I make manually.
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David Converse

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I haven't tested LR yet but I have a standard import preset that applies Camera Neutral profile to all RAW files. Typically if you apply another preset you get odd results, It SHOULD only change the XMP settings in the second but sometimes it doesn't seem to work right.
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Adam De-Ste-Croix

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Just Shot Me: No that isn't what I'm saying.
Apply a preset with just a clarity adjustment in it and nothing else and it changes the profile! That is just an example of a simple preset, could be something else like vignette too. And LR certainly did work this way fine before, I'm processing thousands of images a week!
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Stephen Soukup

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Yes preset stacking IS valid and CAN be done as long as NONE of the sliders cancel out each other. so if 1 preset is Highlights +10 and the other Preset is Sharpen -10 you CAN stack those fine. Many teachers (Ben Willmore, Jared Platt, etc) have created a hundred presets for their class students that work this way so that they CAN be additive and they break down a preset into its small individual components. Many presets out there do TOO MANY things all in one sweep but to be more effective many create presets that are smaller single area adjustments instead of affecting all panels at once. so yes this still needs to work as before otherwise there will be a LOT of unhappy Lr users out there...
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Ruby k

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Thanks for bringing the issue to our notice Adam and Victoria. We are on it.

Regards,
Ruby
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Rick Spaulding, Champion

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Hi Adam,

I have found that I can reproduce your issue if I start with one of the Legacy Profiles.



After choosing one of these profiles clicking on any preset causes the image to revert back to a color profile. 

For example:

1. Start with a raw image (CR2)
2. Apply Adobe Standard B&W Profile
3. Apply a vignette preset
4. Image changes to color Adobe Standard.

If you start with Landscape B&W it reverts to Camera Landscape after the preset is applied.
If you start with Neutral B&W it reverts to Camera Neutral after the preset is applied.
etc. etc,

Does this match the behavior you are seeing?

In other words, it only works if you use a raw image and start with one of the Legacy B&W profiles.

Let me know it that is what you are seeing.

Rick
(Edited)
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Adam De-Ste-Croix

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I'm not sure about "legacy" but I'm glad to see you are finding it now too.
I was using "camera standard" which is in the camera matching presets (A Sony camera).
Sometimes it doesn't do it and sometimes it does. I'm trying to work out the differences but there is definitely a big in there somewhere!
Also midi controllers, I know not in adobes interest, but they have been rendered useless. When selecting presets now all the other sliders are reset to zero!
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Matt Fitt

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Rick,

Confirming that I am seeing the same:

Initial application of any "Legacy" B&W Profiles and subsequent application of Any Preset (except presets in any of the three "Classic B&W" groups) causes profile to immediately revert to color version.

I can work around it, for now, but certainly hope this gets fixed sooner, rather than later.

Thanks.
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Rick Spaulding, Champion

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Thanks, Matt! I'll add your comment to the bug report.
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Just Shot Me

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Yeah now I am seeing this too.
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Beverly Parks

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Also, my Custom DNG Profiles are gone!  I need those for my infrared processing.  When I go to Calibration to set a custom profile, only four "Versions" are showing.
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Beverly Parks

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False alarm.  Looks like they have been moved up to the Profiles area in the Basic panel.  In the Profile Browser, choose "Profiles" to find your custom ones.
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Beverly Parks

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I do, however, see the OP problem of the profile changing back to Adobe Standard when I select a Preset.  It is not only Adobe Standard it changes back to.  I guess it is changing to whatever profile was active when the preset was created.

On a positive point, I like that the preset preview shows on the main image when you hover over it now, instead of only to the small navigation image.
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Ondrej

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I Have the same problem - https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2473824
LR 7.3 changes profile from BW to Color even when it is not selected in the preset
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Ondrej

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It happens on both of my computers with Win10 - old PC i5 4670 (2013) and a i5 7200U laptop (2017)
Presets (starting with numbers) from 7.2 are mixed, not alphabetical and presets on the left side changes treatment from B&W "Adobe Standard BW" to color "Adobe Standard" even when its just "sharpening" (or dehaze, vigneting, lens correction,...)

Only "Adobe Monochrome" profile stays as it is, without change. But it is totally different from original "Adobe Standard BW" - a diferent BW mix and contrast.
(Edited)
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Adam De-Ste-Croix

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Really hoping Adobe pay attention to these bugs, seeing a lot of disgruntled professional photographers in forums and groups now.
But there is another big one, what have Adobe done to the API to prevent midi controllers from working? This now ruins my whole work flow!
Only one preset can be applied. If another is applied it resets the previous one!

Example:
preset one has exposure +3 ONLY
preset two has clarity +20 ONLY
If they are pressed in order then preset one, exposure, is rest to zero!

I have simplified this example. If preset one contains a lot of settings then they are all rest to zero when preset two is pressed. Making editing with midi controllers impossible and its the only way to get through hundreds of images in one day.

Adobe, PLEASE fix this. It's urgent!
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Ondrej

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B&W Preset needs to by "resaved" - this solves the problem (for now):
1. use one of your old B&W presets (Adobe Standard BW profile)
2. change profile to one of 17 profiles in BW section
3. set amount of profile effect to zero (0%)
4. update your preset

After this works LR fine with my B&W pictures combined with other presets

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G Seim

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@Ondrej the tactic you describe does allow the file to remain black and white.

However, it appears to reset all the black and white sliders, despite those sliders not being defined when you preset is saved.

UPDATED. You are correct. If you make a preset for only exposure and select the treatment to also save BW1 into the preset at 0% it works.

UPDATE 2: However if the prest you before is an older presets that defines tradicional black and white settings and as such applies the Monochrome profile. It will convert to the new profle at 0% but will reset all sliders to zero in the process.
(Edited)
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Ondrej

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I have presets with huge B&W mix and all are 100% the same as before, just without this accidentally changing to color when its combined with other presets. 

Adobe Monochrome profile was bad and unusable for me, even after some matching experiments... you can choose BW1 or what you want (2, 3, 4,..etc), final result is the same with 0% slider - it matches my old profile*  :)

*i hope i am correct, i have tested it on just 5 different profiles
(Edited)
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G Seim

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I tested this every way of sunday. Your apprach works from what I can tell if the preset uses new black and white profiles. But if you have a presets from last week that convert to black and white and then apply a new exposure presets using the paramaters you mention, the black and white slider are reset. At least on mine.
 I would love to find a working solution.
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G Seim

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Yea almost any combination of presets except a preset that itself defines black and white conversion will revert the image to color. So a RAW file changed to Adobe  Stanard B&W or a JPEG is to Monochromeafter applying a black and white conversion preset. Then apply any other mod preset like one that only adjusts exposure and it reverts back to a color profile like Adobe standard.

If the classic profile Camera Profile is defined in the same Exposure presets, it does remain black and white but all black and white sliders revert to zero.

It's not hard to reproduce this. The only way bugs this big get thru is when developers don't bother to test their work or correct the problems that arise.
(Edited)
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Ganesh, Lightroom Engineer

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Thanks to you all for reporting the issue. We are working on the fix. 

Regards,
Ganesh
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Thobias Ⓒ

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My edited photos that are BW are converted back to color when I use my saved preset that edit for example just grain or sharpness and no colour changes. Is it bug? Happen after latest update. Thanks.
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Ondrej

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Watch this forum (upper), its a bug - try this, maybe it will work for you:
1. use one of your old B&W presets (Adobe Standard BW profile)
2. change profile to one of 17 profiles in BW section (not Monochrome)
3. set amount of profile effect to zero (0%)
4. update your preset
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Thobias Ⓒ

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Do I need do this to all my around 100 saved presets? Or is it really bug and will be fixed soon?
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G Seim

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Sadly this does not work on many presets because any mod preset that does not define a profile (for example an exposure preset) will simply revert to color and if a profile is defined in such a preset it will stay black and white but the Black and White adjustment sliders will be reset to zero.
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Adam De-Ste-Croix

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@Ganesh. Thank you for this update. I am very grateful to hear the news and eager for the update so my workflow is operational once more. ESPECIALLY for the API fix for midi controllers please!
Thank you.
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G Seim

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We are sending a newsletter and making blog posts warning people to not update to Lightroom 7.3 until this is fixed. If anyone finds a working workaround please advise.
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Laura Kent

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This glitch is affecting my ability to use presets to modify black and white images created from black and white presets. If, after applying the black and white preset, I want to use another preset to change the tone curve or white balance or clarity, or whatever, I get a color image every time.  I have bunches of black and white presets and bunches of other presets I've created to change 1 or 2 specific adjustments at a time, and none of them are supposed to affect the color/profile of the selected image.  Previewing the presets also doesn't work correctly (which makes sense) but it is super annoying to have to guess what each preset would look like if it were actually in b&w, or resort to not using presets after I use a black and white preset...  There's talk of this specific problem being fixed, but it's been 2 weeks, and I'm not seeing any more news.  I need a date this will be fixed.  Am I forced to re-save all of my b&w presets in order to get the functionality I pay for back?

I have an on-going list of workarounds that have been recommended by Adobe experts to do in order to hopefully get some of the expected functionality back on everything that's not working. Here's some of the "expert" advice: If you want your videos to play (hopefully with sound and hopefully that sound doesn't blow your eardrums out) you just need to uninstall Lightroom, reinstall an old version, update twice more, then re-import all of your videos (for the last 10+ years). I'll get right on that. And now I'm supposed to just remake all of my B&W presets that have attached a profile that didn't exist before (Used to just be color or black and white)?  Not to mention that when you update your presets, it doesn't tell you which settings were set before.  I'd have to zero everything out before applying each preset, make a note of the settings that changed, switch the b&w profile to a non-legacy profile, then move the slider to 0%, then update the preset using my notes to make sure I select the correct settings.  I'm tired after just typing that.  And there's tons of other things broken and impossible workarounds to "fix" them.

Are we really still being charged for this?  The sad thing is that I can't live without it.  I've invested too much time making presets and profiles and tone curves and making my catalog and collections what I want them to be...  And I can't switch versions because I love the profiles I created from the new Adobe Color profile  and switching versions would mean going back to adobe standard and all the other awful profiles for my 5d Mark iv. That would be worse than this...Unless the new profiles work with the older LR Classic CC versions????

Somebody make Lightroom work like it should, please, please, please?  Because I need to work.  
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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Soon, Laura, very soon. Hold that thought.
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Laura Kent

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Man, I just had to hold my thought for a few more hours... THANKS!!
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Dave Burbank

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So I think this is related, but posting to confirm: If I assign a profile during import images, and if the profile I assigned is "missing" (i.e. Sony a9 profile while importing Canon images) then attempts to paste the correct profile using "Treatment & Profile" fails. The only solution is to manually correct the profile on every image.
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Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

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The 7.3.1 update released earlier today should address this. Can you install it and let us know if it cures the issue?
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G Seim

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Yes. I did install and the core bugs seems to be fixed.

  • Preset sorting seems to be corrected.
  • The bug that was resetting presets from BW seems to be fixed.
  • No ability has been added remove the rest of the built-in presets
  • An option to disable the full image preview when you mouse over a preset has still not been added. This seems to make things run very slow.
(Edited)
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Adam De-Ste-Croix

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Thank you, I will after this edit. Does this also sort the issues with Midicontrollers? do they now work again too? Thank you
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Laura Kent

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There's still a (related) bug that reverts a BW profile to Adobe Standard BW:  

If using a B&W profile that allows B&W Mix (Adobe Monochrome, legacy bw, etc...) and you turn off the B&W Mix (with the switch), the profile switches to Adobe Standard BW and you have to manually change it back.

Also, perhaps not entirely related, but if anyone knows an answer I'd appreciate it!!
When creating a profile using Adobe Monochrome (or any BW profile that allows B&W Mix), you are only allowed to use the B&W Mix sliders once and then it is grayed out.  If you use the B&W mix sliders inside a profile, the panel will be grayed out in the develop module.  If you don't use the B&W mix sliders in the profile, the panel will be available in the develop module.  Anyone know if this is expected behavior?  I really hope it's a bug too...
(Edited)
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Thobias Ⓒ

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So it is still bugged? Anyone reproduce this bug? I want to know to avoid downgrading again.
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Laura Kent

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It's a lot less bugged than it was.  It's useable.  Still workarounds for some things, but I like this version's profiles and previews, so it's a no brainer for me to suffer through it...
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Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

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@Laura Kent

I cannot follow your steps here: "When creating a profile using Adobe Monochrome (or any BW profile that allows B&W Mix), you are only allowed to use the B&W Mix sliders once and then it is grayed out.  If you use the B&W mix sliders inside a profile, the panel will be grayed out in the develop module." Is it possible you meant 'creating a preset' and not a profile? If not, can you give step-by-step instructions to reproduce what you are seeing?
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Laura Kent

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Hi Rikk,
   I did mean profile.  
1.  Open a raw image in camera raw.
2. Choose adobe monochrome as the (camera) profile
3. Under the Black & White Mix tab, adjust the sliders (example: red-10, orange-15)
4. At the bottom of the Preset tab, you'll see a "new preset" icon. If you option+click that, it'll bring up the New Profile menu.   (I know I'm using "preset" and "profile", but I'm not using them interchangeably...)
5. Make sure the black and white mix is checked, name your profile and choose the set.
6. Click OK.
7. Cancel your edit to close Camera Raw.  

8. Open Lightroom (If already open- close and re-open so you can see your new profile)
9. Choose an image and go to Develop Module
10. Find and apply your new profile.
11. Try to adjust the B&W Mix and you'll see that it is grayed out.

12. Repeat with any Legacy profile, including Adobe Standard BW and same thing happens.
13.  However, if you DON'T include the B&W mix in your profile (sliders remain at 0), the B&W mix will be available to use in the develop module in Lightroom.  It seems you can only use them once: either in your profile, or in the develop module.

My point is that this isn't "normal" behavior for profiles.  If I add a tone curve to a new profile, I still have access to the tone curve in Lightroom's develop module. Same with exposure, highlights, etc.  I'm sure there are limits- If I use -100 in highlights for a profile I don't know that the develop module will still have -100 to give.  But I'm not maxing out any limits with my B&W mix adjustments, and I can only use it once.

-----
Now I am going to switch to Presets (and still profiles), because there's another problem:
When creating presets (within Lightroom), the Treatment and Profile should be SEPARATE options and not automatically selected when Color or B&W mix are selected .  As of now, any preset that includes the B&W mix or HSL sliders AUTOMATICALLY includes the Current Profile and Treatment by default.  If I have several B&W mix presets that I want to be able to use with any of the many new B&W profiles, I have to make separate presets for each profile.  It's an exponential problem.

Let me say that I think I understand why they are connected:
•If only the treatment is attached to a preset with a B&W mix and the current image is in color, Lightroom doesn't just turn it into b&w anymore- it needs to change the profile.  Where treatment is, so must profile be.

But IT'S A PROBLEM. As it is now, there's could be an exponential need for more presets to cover the various combinations of B&W Mixes/HSL adjustments and profiles.  
Example with only 2 mixes and 2 profiles:
preset 1: Chocolate B&W profile with B&W mix "1"
preset 2: Chocolate B&W profile with B&W mix "2"
preset 3: Custom B&W "1" profile with B&W mix "1"
preset 4: Custom B&W "1" profile with B&W mix "2"

Now multiply that by all the B&W profiles available (or the ones you use) and then again by the different B&W mixes you use.  Then again for the various color profiles you may want to use and the different HSL adjustments you like.  It can be overwhelming.

My solution:
Let US CHOOSE whether or not to attach a specific profile to a preset that has B&W Mix or Color adjustments (HSL) knowing that:
1. In the event of a mismatch (i.e. the current image is color and you select a b&w preset with no profile attached) the preset will either do nothing OR use the default B&W/Color profile.
2. If the treatment of a preset (b&w or color) is the SAME as the current image and no profile is attached to the preset, the current image's profile will not be affected.  

This way one can create various combinations of presets and not have to duplicate them for each profile in the event the B&W mix/HSL adjustments are used.

----
Bottom line-
1. I think something's wrong with the B&W mix inside profiles that is shutting off the ability to make further B&W mix adjustments when a B&W mix is included in the profile.

2. Treatment and Profile NEED to be separated within the preset options, and we should have an option to NOT include the current Profile in a preset where B&W mix or Color Adjustments are selected.  Lightroom would need to change the default behavior ONLY in the event of a treatment mismatch (i.e. a b&w preset with a color image and no profile attached to the preset); I suggest it does nothing or the default profile is used.
(Edited)
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Johan Elzenga, Champion

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In another thread somebody found that applying a preset did reset transformations, even if that preset didn’t do anything on transformations. We eventually found what caused this: if you have an old preset, it may contain “ProcessVersion = 6.7”, even if this preset was converted to xmp. Use a text editor and change this to “ProcessVersion = 10.0” (or remove this line completely). That may solve these kinds of resetting problems.
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Laura Kent

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Johan, you said "...applying a preset did reset transformations" 

What do you mean by transformations?  Reset Profiles?  Reset Development adjustments/changes?

As far as I can tell the only time profiles are being reset improperly now is when you turn off the B&W mix with the switch.  The same thing does not happen for color profiles when you switch off the color/HSL adjustments.

Presets that included the profile when they were created rightfully switch the profile of the current image. Because of that, I do think there should be a change in the way the treatment and profile are automatically selected when B&W mix or HSL is included in a preset.  I think treatment and profiles should be separate, and I think that profiles should not be automatically checked for presets.  

Presets are not resetting profiles when profiles are not included in the preset (as designed).  I argue that when saving presets, the treatment and profile options should not be combined and the profile should not be automatically selected when creating a preset with either B&W mix or HSL adjustments.   Implementing this would mean addressing the reasons (I suspect) they are currently grouped together and automatically selected when B&W mix or Color adjustments are included in a preset:  In the event there is a treatment mismatch between a preset with no profile included and the image. (i.e in the event a preset with b&w mix, b&w treatment, and no profile is applied to a color image).  I suggest in those events, the preset either does nothing (since without changing the profile the other adjustments would not be available) or Lightroom selects a default profile with the same treatment as the preset.

Examples: 
(assuming treatment and profile are no longer together, and profile is not automatically selected when creating presets with B&W mix/HSL adjustments)

1. Current image: Adobe Color profile (treatment: color)
Preset: includes B&W mix, treatment (black & white), and NO profile.
Problem:  Treatment mismatch between current image and preset
Solutions: ONLY in situations where there's a treatment mismatch between the current image and a preset without a profile included, Lightroom will choose to:
1) do nothing 
2) Choose a default profile that matches the treatment in the preset (adobe Monochrome)
Add a warning if you must explaining what will happen if there's a treatment mismatch and no profile is selected.  But this is a better option than being forced to create duplicate presets for each profile.
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Johan Elzenga, Champion

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"Johan, you said "...applying a preset did reset transformations" 
What do you mean by transformations?  Reset Profiles?  Reset Development adjustments/changes?"

I meant transformations. The thing you do in the Transform block, like Guided Upright. That's not important however. What is important is that some adjustments were reset, and that the ProcessVersion stored in the preset turned out to be the culprit.