Lightroom 6 bug - duplicate camera profiles and wrong white balance for them

  • 1
  • Problem
  • Updated 2 years ago
In Lightroom 6.8 (i'm not sure if the bug was there in other versions), I'm finding with a few of my photos (but most are not affected) that in the camera calibration section, where you choose your camera profiles (i,e Adobe Standard or Camera Standard etc), that there are sometimes duplicate entries to choose from, i.e sometimes there will be 2 entries for Camera Neutral, and sometimes there be 2 entries for Camera Standard. When this bug appears for certain photos, if you click on either of the duplicates colour profiles the white balance is thrown wildly out.

I have 2 computers and the same thing happens on both with the same catalogue.

It certainly needs looking into please.

Here are some screenshots to show you (notice the white balance in the screenshots for the ones where i click on either of the duplicate colour profiles):


^In the screenshot above, notice the 2 entries for Camera Neutral colour profile, and clicking on either one of them produces a wild white balance compared to the other profiles.




^the 2nd duplicate colour profile behaving the same as the 1st (wild white balance)





In the next example (below) there is duplicate entries for Camera Standard this time:



^In the screenshot above, notice the 2 entries for Camera Standard colour profile this time, and clicking on either one of them produces a wild white balance compared to the other profiles.






^the 2nd duplicate colour profile behaving the same as the 1st (wild white balance)



Thanks.
Photo of Paul Beckwith

Paul Beckwith

  • 58 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
  • anxious

Posted 2 years ago

  • 1
Photo of Steve Gandy

Steve Gandy

  • 113 Posts
  • 36 Reply Likes
I can't duplicate this. Maybe see if it is the same on files from some different cameras?
Photo of Paul Beckwith

Paul Beckwith

  • 58 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Steve, if you'd like to download the 1st dng (with settings applied) and test it then here's a download link (from my OneDrive), thanks:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Arvb9AI814f1gdEVbdu8UOwJhLravg
Photo of Steve Gandy

Steve Gandy

  • 113 Posts
  • 36 Reply Likes
I see 2 Neutral Camera choices on this picture. I wonder if the the DNG conversion did something. I'd take a look at the  original RAW file. The other thing I notice is that there is no Adobe Standard choice. 
Photo of Paul Beckwith

Paul Beckwith

  • 58 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Hi steve. Unfortunately I always convert to DNG and then throw away the originals. Maybe I'll stop doing that now! Do you also get the weird color cast if you click on 1 of the duplicate profiles (in this case Camera Neutral)?
Photo of Steve Gandy

Steve Gandy

  • 113 Posts
  • 36 Reply Likes
I saw a color shift when I first loaded the image but then it looked the same when I clicked either profile.
Photo of Paul Beckwith

Paul Beckwith

  • 58 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Steve, adjust the white balance a bit and then compare the profiles. They go all out of sync (at least on my computers).
Photo of Steve Gandy

Steve Gandy

  • 113 Posts
  • 36 Reply Likes
No, I don't see any shift. I'd try importing some RAW files and leave the DNG conversion out of it. Must be something going on with that.
Photo of Paul Beckwith

Paul Beckwith

  • 58 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
I wonder if anybody else has ever come across this problem too?
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1334 Posts
  • 435 Reply Likes
The original Nikon D3100 'Camera' named profiles (Standard, Vivid, etc.) introduced in LR 3.3 had incorrect White Balance tables. The profiles were corrected in LR 5.4, but not provided as separate versions (Camera Standard v1).
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom_5_4_broken_with_d3100

The DNG files you have with WB issues were most likely imported and converted to DNG file format using a version of LR prior to 5.4. LR embedded the "older" version camera profile inside these DNG files. You'll need to  "update" the camera profiles for these  image files using menu Metadata> 'Update DNG Preview & Metadata' with the newer 'Camera' named profile that does not have the issue.

You can use a LR plugin to locate all image files with a specific camera profile, such as Camera Standard. The best one for this purpose is Data Explorer by Jeffrey Friedl:

http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/data-explorer

Using the Data Explorer filter plugin with Explore> 'Camera Calibration' filter selected you'll get results similar to to below. Check all of the 'Camera' named results as shown below and then click on 'Isolate Each Result to its own Collection.' Next select a collection and assign the newer "correct" camera profile to all of the DNG files. Next select all (CTRL +A) of the corrected DNG files and use menu Metadata> 'Update DNG Preview & Metadata' to update the embedded camera profile. You'll need to repeat this process for each of the collections.

Let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Photo of Paul Beckwith

Paul Beckwith

  • 58 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Hi Todd, thanks for the reply.

I've tried doing what you've said, & assuming I've done it right, the problem still persists. I located all the problem DNG's. I reset them all. They all reverted to Adobe Standard. I updated the metadata and DNG previews for them. However, as before there is still duplicated color profiles in all of them. Some have duplicated camera neutral, and some have duplicated camera standard. In all of the photos, when you initially cycle through the different available color profiles they all match up with their white balances, but if you change the white balance once, and then cycle through the different available color profiles again, the duplicated profiles give wildly different color temperatures compared to the rest of the profiles.

I've thought of a workaround if i can't solve it any other way and that's to open the DNG's in DxO, apply no correction, and export to linear DNG's. I've tested that and it works, but it would be a shame to throw away the original DNG's.
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1334 Posts
  • 435 Reply Likes
The only way the old 'Camera' named profile would be showing is if it's installed in the User folder. Check this location and see if any camera profiles are in the User folder:

Windows—C: \ Users \ [your username] \ AppData \ Roaming \ Adobe \ CameraRaw \ CameraProfiles \

Mac—Macintosh HD / Users / [your username] / Library / Application Support / Adobe / CameraRaw / CameraProfiles /

If no profiles there can you upload one of the reset DNG files showing two profiles with the same name to Dropbox?

Photo of Paul Beckwith

Paul Beckwith

  • 58 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Hi Todd, here's a download link from my OneDrive:

The 1st dng (with settings applied), thanks:

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Arvb9AI814f1gdEVbdu8UOwJhLravg

I will look at the profiles folder now.
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1334 Posts
  • 435 Reply Likes
I see two Camera Neutral profiles with this DNG file and both have the same incorrect WB behavior (requires WB Temp 9000, Tint 0). It appears LR 6.8's updated Camera Neutral profile isn't accessible. It's as if the embedded older Camera Neutral profile is over-riding LR's own Camera Neutral profile.

Apparently the Adobe DNG Specification allows embedding multiple DNG camera profiles: "DNG 1.2.0.0 and later formalizes the concept of a “camera profile” and allows multiple camera profiles to be embedded in a single DNG file." So simply updating the DNG Metadata with the new camera profile will not remove previously added camera profiles.

It may be possible to remove the older 'Camera' named profiles using something like ExifTool in batch mode. I suggest posting this in the DNG forum and hopefully someone there can offer a better solution. If you get a good response please place a link here to the DNG forum post.
 https://forums.adobe.com/community/dng
Photo of Paul Beckwith

Paul Beckwith

  • 58 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Thanks Todd, it's good to know what was actually happening. Out of 380 family DNG raw photos I only had 6 D3100 files that were not Adobe Standard. I assume Adobe Standard isn't affected because there aren't any duplicate versions of that in any of them, plus Adobe Standard white balance matches all the other colour profiles except for the duplicate colour profiles. I think for now I could just revert back to Adobe Standard in them as it's actually quite good for the D3100 (unlike for my Canon 750D). Another option would of been to open the faulty DNG's in DxO and export to a new linear DNG. I like the lens corrections in DxO but hardly use it because I don't like its other features (especially highlight recovery, smart light, and Raw engine etc). Exif tool is a bit too advanced for me if I'm honest.

Hopefully someone from Adobe will notice this bug!

Thanks again my friend.
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1334 Posts
  • 435 Reply Likes
Adobe Standard is not affected by the WB Table issue so that's the best option for "fixing"  images with an older embedded 'Camera' named profile. I'm surprised someone hasn't provided the ability to remove embedded camera profiles from DNG files. In the case of your D3100 DNG the file size increased by ~1.6MB after four more camera profiles (6 total) were embedded. Granted that's not normal processing, but someone experimenting with different camera profiles could needlessly increase the file size. To prevent this make sure 'Automatically write changes into XMP' is not checked in the Catalog Settings. You can "manually" update the DNG using  Metadata> 'Update DNG Preview & Metadata' after all editing "experimenting"  has been completed. Just a suggestion. Enjoy!

Photo of Paul Beckwith

Paul Beckwith

  • 58 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Ty Todd
Photo of Paul Beckwith

Paul Beckwith

  • 58 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like


....PS, no profiles installed, here's a screenshot:
(Edited)