Lightroom Classic: Library artifacts and banding

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  • Updated 2 months ago
  • (Edited)
When I import my pics, standard previews and smart previews are generated. I develop my pics just fine. But when I go back to the Library module, with some pictures only, the sky is full of artefacts (Fit screen). If I zoom in in 1:1 or higher, after recalculation, those artefacts desapear. But when I go back to Fit screen I see them again. I don't see them in Develop Module.

If I build again 1:1 previews, it does solve the problem. But it's not persistant.

And the worse part is when the collection is synced, I see on LR web the pic with the artefacts.

How could I avoid this ? How do I correct the situation in LR Web without having to resync everything ?

All the pics are coming from the same camera in raw and there is no crazy edit in the sky.

I did export a set of files as per your settings with :


  • sRGB
  • AdobeRGB 1998
  • Prophoto RGB
 All pics are fully clean pics.

I downloaded directly from LR web : artefacts as I see it in LR web

I deleted the preview file and the sync.lrdata. I rebuild the preview and started the sync again. Still the same problem, notting changed. 



Thanks for your help
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  • frustrated

Posted 6 months ago

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Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

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Any chance you can share a screenshot or two showing the artifacts? 
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Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

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I really need to see what your screen looks like. 
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ChrisB63

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ChrisB63

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a print screen from LR web
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ChrisB63

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I would like to say again the banding is not visible in LR 1:1 or higher but only in fit screen and in LR web. Export pics are fully clean 
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And a screenprint of Library module showing the banding?
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ChrisB63

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ChrisB63

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This from the desktop (MacOS) LR Classic
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Rikk, this has been happening forever! There are lots of posts complaining that one has to zoom to 1:1 in order to eliminate what looks like severe jpeg blockiness. For me, this seems to happen only when in the Library module, and it's inconsistent in that it only occurs randomly. It's most noticeable in the sky or where there's smooth tones. Once the 1:1 zoom is recalculated, the artifacts are gone... for a while, but they randomly return at a later time. 
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The artifacts observed in the LR Classic Web synced smart previews are due to use of lossy DNG file format. You can test this by exporting images that exhibit artifacts in the Web album using the below LR Classic Export module settings. To be honest after looking through my 35,000+ images catalog for files with similar sky area I could only find two that exhibit artifacts when synced to the Web with LR Classic.

https://forums.adobe.com/message/5297705#5297705



To determine the cause (and a possible correction) I suggest exporting a few files that exhibit the artifacts to full-size DNG file format as shown below. The DNG file will contain your LR Develop settings to determine if that has some bearing on the issue. Please post them to a file sharing site and place the share links in a reply here.

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You'll see this type of artifact when the standard preview is generated based on Smart Previews or at higher pyramid levels (it explains when you zoom to 1:1 the artifact went away).

Try increase your preferred standard preview size from the Catalog Settings>File Handling>Preview Size>Standard Preview Size. If it is setting to Auto, the size is determined by the largest dimension of your attached monitor. The artifact could also be amplified by the type of extreme image adjustment he applied to the image when the standard previews are not generated from the full resolution negatives.
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I understand what you saying. But in this case there is no special extreme edit.
If it was the case, there would be still visible in 1:1 or higher. It would be visible as well when I export with the publish service as a jpeg and it's not the case at all with any pictures. 

Any how this is a big problem for :
- simply view the pics in fit screen
- kills the LR web
- kills the possibility of sharing with LR web

In the catalog settings the preview are set to Auto and preview to high quality.
By downgrading one or both of them it will degrade the viewing quality.

what is the fix ?

Thank you all for your help 
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Try increase your preferred standard preview size from the Catalog Settings>File Handling>Preview Size>Standard Preview Size.
Simon, does the Preview Size setting affect the file that is synced to the Web, which is where the artifacts are also visible?
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Simon Chen, Principal Computer Scientist

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Hi Todd, No. The standard preview size only affect the previews generated for the library.
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But in this case there is no special extreme edit. If it was the case, there would be still visible in 1:1 or higher. It would be visible as well when I export with the publish service as a jpeg and it's not the case at all with any pictures. 
That would make sense because in these cases (1:1 and publish and export), the rendering always start with the full resolution negative (to ensure the highest quality but render slower). This kind of artifact is mostly occurring when the rendering is based on the Smart Previews (like the LrWeb case) or camera raw negative cache (in essence, Smart Preview likes)

Any how this is a big problem for :
- simply view the pics in fit screen
- kills the LR web
- kills the possibility of sharing with LR web
These are the cases where the renditions are rendered from the Smart Preview or the Camera Raw (negative) Cache.

There is no easy fix without performance implications. If image quality is your top priority, during import, set the preview option to generate 1:1 preview. Or do it 1-off for affected photos by quickly zooming into 1:1 to force generation of 1:1 preview for that photo.
(Edited)
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This kind of artifact is mostly occurring when the rendering is based on the Smart Previews (like the LrWeb case) or camera raw negative cache (in essence, Smart Preview likes)
So to avoid this I deleted the file Smart Preview. right ?
No how do I force a resync with LR web ?


I'm quite unhappy about this situation as smart preview has been created to improve performance (not only) and now you are saying in order to be able to use Portfolio / Gallery etc I should not be using smart preview
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So to avoid this I deleted the file Smart Preview. right ?
See this post for what I believe Simon is referring to:

Develop module preview differs from Library + Exported JPGs

If using Smart Previews with  "Use Smart Previews instead of Originals for image editing" selected in LR Preferences set OR the original file is offline you are looking at and working with a lossy DNG file. Uncheck that setting and make sure the original file is present AND create 1:1 Previews. This will "fix" the artifacts issue as observed in the Library module, but not the Sync to Web images since they are lossy DNGs and nothing you can do to change that. What you can do with those specific images that exhibit artifacts in a Web album is to instead create and sync rendered JPEG files for those specific image files. See my reply below outlining that workflow.
(Edited)
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Thanks Todd, I will try this
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If I understand you well I could “solve” the problem by :
- not using smart preview
- disabling the cash by setting it to minimum ?
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As Simon Chen mentioned, "If image quality is your top priority, during import, set the preview option to generate 1:1 preview. Or do it 1-off for affected photos by quickly zooming into 1:1 to force generation of 1:1 preview for that photo."
- disabling the cash by setting it to minimum ?
I assume you mean the camera raw cache,. It is only used in the Develop module so not a source of this issue. Setting to a low value is only going to cause performance issues in the Develop module. If anything increase the camera raw cache size to 20-50 GB.

Also as Simon Chen mentions, "No. The standard preview size only affect the previews generated for the library."

As mentioned the smart preview file is a lossy DNG file with fixed size of 2560 pixels long edge and NO user adjustable settings. If you're seeing artifacts in a LR Classic Web synced image file there's no much you can do.
What does appear  to work is to export the raw file to JPEG file format using the below settings and then sync the JPEG file to the Web. With your Speloncato-7501178.NEF and the XMP file settings applied I see no artifacts in the sky. It's not an ideal solution and I can't even explain why it works, but it does. As long as you have no intentions on applying Web edits to the file there shouldn't be any issues. A side benefit is that the synced JPEG file with Screen Standard Export Sharpening applied appears sharper than the synced raw file.

(Edited)
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@Todd One correction, the Smart Preview is a lossy DNG file with fixed size of 2560 pixels on the long edge.
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Thanks Simon, correction noted and changed in my post. That's what I had always thought in the past, but Web downloaded JPEGs are always 2048 px long edge. Is that an arbitrary download size determined to be more useful due to social media posting size limits (i.e. Facebook is 2048 long edge maximum)?
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2048 px is the JPEG render size. The 2560px for Smart Preview is to provide some slack for possible cropping during develop.
(Edited)
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I did realise that the same problem occurs with the Apple TV. Which is fully understandable as it's coming from the same source, LR web.

So this problem makes the real utility of Creative Cloud questionnable not to say useless...
Of course, as Todd mentioned I still could export the pics and upload them.
Yes but not good for the workflow and since I have to export them to my HD I could very well upload them somewhere else.

So I hope you are going to fix this problem ASAP because I like the idea of how it should work.

In the meantime, long story short, the problem is coming from smart preview.
They are only good for development for keeping LR speedy, and that works like a charm.

But after that I should delete them and rebuild 1:1 previews ?
LR web is using the standard size or the 1:1 if it exist ?

From what I saw when a pic is rebuild it does not resync to LR web. 
How can force it without un sync the collection and sync it again ?

thanks







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But after that I should delete them and rebuild 1:1 previews ?
LR web is using the standard size or the 1:1 if it exist ?
As Simon Chen mentions for best results you should build 1:1 Previews before syncing image files to the Web. The Web Smart Previews are created automatically and there's no need to delete them.

From what I saw when a pic is rebuild it does not resync to LR web. 
How can force it without un sync the collection and sync it again ?
If you apply ANY Develop setting to the image files they will resync automatically. You could also select all of the image files in the collection except for one, delete them, and then use CTRL + Z Undo to restore them. Once completed delete the one image file not updated and use CTRL + Z Undo to resync it. This way if the collection is shared the share link URL does not change. Following this procedure or simply deleting the whole collection and restoring takes the same amount of time. Make sure to build the 1:1 Previews before performing this resync operation. Once completed you can delete the 1:1 Previews if not need for local LR review purposes.
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Sorry it just doesn't work. No more smart preview. The pic on LR web is still with banding.
As previously said the 1:1 preview rebuild is not persistant.

Just to make sure I got the resync pic in LR web, I converted to B&W.
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What I meant was you should build 1:1 previews to insure the best possible uploaded smart preview. I didn't mean to say that would "fix" the issue with specific image files. Like I said I see very few images synced to the Web that display these artifacts. If you're seeing a LOT of image files with this issue there may be other things causing it (camera or LR settings). If just a few image files have the issue export to JPEG as I suggested is the only solution currently for LR Classic. Using LR Desktop with the Mobile and Web apps shouldn't exhibit this issue since full-size original files are uploaded to Cloud storage. Adobe has made it clear that no new Web features will be added to LR Classic since the primary focus is on improving the LR Desktop app.
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Settings and camera are definitely not the source of the problem as there is no artefacts in 1:1
Yes just a few pics, not all
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One possible workaround to increase the rendered image quality on LrWeb/LrTV is to use the LrDesktop (not LrClassic) for syncing the relevant assets. LrDesktop will sync the original raws to the cloud and therefore LrWeb/LrTV would be able to generate higher quality renditions than LrClassic where only the Smart Previews are synced.
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Ok thanks but that might help the web part.
It doesn't solve the problem in LR Classic. The banding in Fit is visible. And as said before, the 1:1 works just fine but it's not persistant in FIT.

My feeling is if I solve the problem in LR Classic, it would clearly solve the web side.
Because my problem is no a quality problem but a banding.

So my priority is to solve the LR Classic.

Thanks for your help
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It doesn't solve the problem in LR Classic. The banding in Fit is visible. And as said before, the 1:1 works just fine but it's not persistant in FIT.
I'm not seeing any artifacts in the Library module or Develop module at Fit Zoom View with your Speloncato-7501178.NEF file and XMP file settings. In LR Preferences> Performance try unchecking 'Use GPU for Display.' Restart LR, Zoom to 1:1, and back to Fit view. Do you still see the artifacts inside LR Classic? If so post a screenshot like below of what I'm seeing.
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Grid
(Edited)
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Grid
(Edited)
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Fit screen
(Edited)
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As said before no problem in 1:1 or higher
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That's a different NEF file than the one you posted to Dropbox, which does NOT exhibit artifacts on my system as shown in my screenshot. Please post this NEF to Dropbox with an XMP settings file and I'll check it.

From your most recent screenshots it looks like you have a graphics card issue. Did you try unchecking 'Use GPU for Display.' In LR Preferences> Performance as shown below, restart LR, Zoom to 1:1, wait for build, Zoom back to Fit?

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Since the last pic I did some cleanup as posted :
- delete smart preview
- delete preview
- delete sync.lrcat
- build standard size preview

So the problem is not persistant, and is "moving" to different pics.
This one doesn't have a smart preview.

In my opinion if it was a GPU problem, it would affect many more pics.
But yes I did try unchecking it. Actually when I started to post to the forum it was unchecked. I checked it again.
I have a 5K iMac 2017 with a Radeon Pro 575 4GB 
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So the problem is not persistant, and is "moving" to different pics.
The most likely cause of the "moving" target issue is a corrupted preview cache.


Go to Edit> Catalog Settings> General> Show and navigate to the LR Catalog folder. Next close LR and rename the Lightroom Previews.lrdata folder Lightroom Previews.lrdata.HOLD. Launch LR and check files with the banding issue again inside LR Classic by Zooming to 1:1, wait for 1:1 Preview to build, and then Zoom back to Fit view. Is the banding still present?
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as I just said I deleted all even the cash files (I forgot to mention in my previous post)
Moving might not be the proper word. But since the deleting, different pics are showing the problem.

I tried with and without smart previews as well.
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Do you use a monitor calibrator to calibrate your display? You may have an incompatible or corrupt display profile. Try setting the display profile to sRGB as outlined at the below link.

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-change-my-monitor-profile-to-check-whether-its-corrupted/
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Switching from display profile doesn't affect the banding.
I always calibrate my mac's from day one.
I tried by switching to the original profile or any other in the list and back to my profile.
No change at all regarding the banding.
The only thing afcting the banding is the 1:1

I did upgrade LR today to 8.4.1but no change
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Stupid question and sorry for not mentioning this! Every time you change the assigned display profile LR must be restarted to load that new profile. Lacking the close and restart of LR it continues to use the original assigned display profile. If you did that and the banding remains the only thing left that I can suggest is to uninstall LR and reinstall LR 8.4.1 released today. You could also upload one of the NEFs with an XMP settings file for further checking on my system.
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ah ok, I didn't know.
I could clearly see the change in LR with contrast etc from one profile to another 
but not change about the banding.
I'll try again by restarting LR.

What I do know is this :

- develop with smart preview for performance.
- once done, remove the smart preview

With the last pic I posted the print screens here, it clearly improve the quality by reducing the banding, but it's not up to the quality in 1:1.

You very well know that this problem is a very old one which was completely killed.
Forums are full of that.
In the Develop module I see the banding when I just switch into it but I reduce the banding by itself and then I have to go into 1:1 to have a clean pic.

I find out another problem ( I will open a specific post for it).
In those deep skies I could see some kind of round banding. But they disappear with a reset. Long story short, the problem is coming from the "enable profile correction".
Problem only visible with deep dark sky.






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You very well know that this problem is a very old one which was completely killed.
Forums are full of that.
No I don't know that! Please provide links to some sample posts discussing the problem. Like I said I'm not seeing the issue with the one NEF and XMP file pair you provided using LR Classic 8.4.1. Perhaps you can provide the NEF and XMP file used for the screenshots in your last post. That might help to identify something.

I find out another problem ( I will open a specific post for it).
In those deep skies I could see some kind of round banding. But they disappear with a reset. Long story short, the problem is coming from the "enable profile correction".
That sounds like this issue: https://console.getsatisfaction.com/photoshop_family/conversations/circular-banding-in-shadows-with-...

The solution is to apply Luminance Noise Reduction at 1:1 Zoom view until the noise is significantly reduced. If you've already done that then this is just another variance of the issue being discussed here with the solution remaining to be determined.
If you haven't done so already I suggest uninstalling LR Classic and do a full reinstall (not update) of LR 8.4.1.
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In fit screen, how come do I have a different result between Library and Develop ?
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Because Develop always load and render from the full resolution negative.
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well if there is no more smart preview, Library should (and can only) do the same thing ?
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The way this feature was implemented(I believe), is that once selected in preferences, LR would generate a 'smart preview' size preview and use that, regardless of whether or not you chose to create smart previews on import.
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That is where the presence of the Camera Raw Cache (Lightroom>Preferences>Performance>Camera Raw Cache Settings (for DNG it is the embedded Fast Load Data) is used for in the absence of Smart Previews. Those essentially serves the same purpose as 'Smart Preview'.

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And the same when 'Use Smart Previews instead of Originals for image editing' is selected under Lightroom>Preferences>Performance>Develop, right?
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so in Develop I see Full res raw + correction stored in the catalog
in Library I see Raw from the cache ?

What I found out is that rebuilding 1:1 doesn't help the fit view in Library

So it means the source of the problem for Library is coming from the corrupted cache ?

But as said previously I deleted the cache, previews and smart preview and it dint solve the problem.
I will do it again

What I do know in my workflow is :
  1. build smart preview
  2. develop the pic 
  3. delete smart preview
Does it make sens ?
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@Todd yes I did.
But is not my situation other than it's more visible with the thumbnail in the library. The pic was taken @ 100 ISO so no specific noise.
And I'm able to see the circular artefact with no edit yet.
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That is where the presence of the Camera Raw Cache (Lightroom>Preferences>Performance>Camera Raw Cache Settings (for DNG it is the embedded Fast Load Data) is used for in the absence of Smart Previews. Those essentially serves the same purpose as 'Smart Preview'.
So it means that in the Library module we see the cache file in FIT and not the Standard Size Preview ?

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We're in thrashing mode here trying to resolve more than one issue! Make sure you are NOT using Smart Previews by having the original files offline OR by enabling "Use Smart Previews instead of Originals for image editing" selected in LR Preferences. Are you still seeing the artifacts with this criteria? If so post the raw file and XMP settings file to a file sharing site so we can check it on our systems. Lacking that we are running around in a circle of confusion.
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the link for the circular banding problem
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8b5w7eokngtcg6c/AAAr4kY32mxPMRgiNzknInvNa?dl=0

The best way to see it is with the print screen of the thumbnail.


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I see NO banding or other artifacts in any of the Limassol-7502277 image files on my system using LR 8.4.1. Since I'm not seeing the artifacts this has to be an issue with your graphics card,  monitor, or LR installation. What OS, system model, graphics card, monitor calibrator, and display are you using? Also did you try a LR uninstall and reinstall of LR 8.4.1?
(Edited)
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don't tell me you don't see the the circular banding on the thumbnail
The smaller the better to see it
have you used the xmp ?
(Edited)
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Yes and I even went back to 8.3.1
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don't tell me you don't see the the circular banding on the thumbnail
The smaller the better to see it
have you used the xmp ?
No, there is no banding or any other artifacts in the thumbnail file or NEF file with your XMP settings applied on my system. I also viewed the files on a Windows 7 system that has a TFT 6bit+FRC monitor that should be much more prone to exhibiting smooth gradient banding. No banding or other artifacts were observed so that's two systems that don't exhibit the issue.




I noticed that your Limassol-7502277.NEF file has a large number of Spot Removal Heal spots. That shouldn't cause any issues, but it's not apparent WHY you're applying them. With them removed I don't see any dust spots or anything other than clear sky in the Heal areas. As a test try resetting the Spot Removal tool to remove all of the Heal spots, switch to the Library module and Zoom to 1:1, and see if the banding is still visible at Fit view. If so you may have a defect in your graphics card or display. Try connecting an external monitor and see if it shows the same banding. Better yet find a friend or relative who also has LR Classic and have them view the files.
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I was able to produce circular banding in the Library module Fit view by resetting the Develop module Noise Reduction panel to its default settings. However, after zooming to 1:1 view and allowing the preview to be rebuilt the banding was no longer present. Not sure what this indicates since when you zoom to 1:1 and back to Fit view the banding is still visible. Just an FYI. Is this what you're seeing:
(click on image to see full-size)
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Try turning off the lens corrections. The circular banding you sometimes see is due to lens corrections, especially the vignette corrections. The banding is caused by numerical precision not being high enough even in the 16-bit math applied in Lightroom.
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Jao, the issue is that I'm NOT seeing the banding using his NEFs and XMP settings file. It may be a Mac only issue as I've only checked his image files using LR 8.4.1 on Windows 10 & 7. Do me a favor and check the files on your Mac system he posted here. Thank you!

the link for the circular banding problem
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8b5w7eokngtcg6c/AAAr4kY32mxPMRgiNzknInvNa?dl=0

The best way to see it is with the print screen of the thumbnail.

Here's another NEF and XMP file he posted concerning using Smart Previews and upload to the Web. We know why that's happening (lossy DNG), but he's also seeing the banding in the Library module at Fit view with the original NEF fle and NO Smart Preview present.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8b5w7eokngtcg6c/AAAr4kY32mxPMRgiNzknInvNa?dl=0
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I am not getting any banding on my 27inch Retina iMac either using the uploaded NEF with edits.
(Edited)
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Thank you for your help

Spot removal :

Todd, I use Spot removal because there plenty of spots and not for fun...
Yes there are not easy to see in FIT but very visible in 2:1 or by activating in the tool bar "visualize spots". I did something crazy by cranking dehaze for you to see them 


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I was able to produce circular banding in the Library module Fit view
What you got is EXACTLY my problem number 1, the reason why I open the post.
On certain pic I get this artefacts, as you did. They disappear in 1:1 or higher and with export.
The problem is the same with or without smart preview. 
Collateral damage :
- not possible to view image in Library
- not possible to have clean image in LR Web
- not possible to have clean image in LR AppleTV
- not possible to have clean image in Portfolio
- not possible to have clean image in LR Mobile



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ChrisB63

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I would like to repeat the following :
- rebuild the 1:1 only helps on the spot. If you quite this pic for another one and come back to it, I've the artefacts again
- once the pic is developed I delete the smart preview
- I delete all the preview file and rebuild them from scratch. Same thing with the cash folder

All this didn't help
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ChrisB63

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Circular banding

Same thing, to make it obvious, I cranked up dehaze.


As said before, it's visible on the thumbnail il Library, smaller the best to see it
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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The blocky artifacts in your screenshot with Dehaze cranked up is expected with very high settings. What I showed you in my screenshot is traditional stair-step banding , which is not visible in the above screenshot.

There's a very good possibility this issue is unique to a specific OS X version update specifically concerning Metal GPU support. That's why I suggested testing a few image files on a friend or relatives Windows and Mac system. However, Robert Somrak says, "I am not getting any banding on my 27inch Retina iMac either using the uploaded NEF with edits." So we have at least one Mac user who isn't seeing the artifacts."

One last thing to try is to reset LR Preferences file, which survives an uninstall/reinstall and may be corrupted.

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-reset-lightrooms-preferences/
(Edited)
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ChrisB63

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ok... That doesn't help.
There are very visible. I did crank up for you to see them.
On a 5K retina they are very visible and that is why I open this ticket.
If you don't see them, that is not going to help me.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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Robert Somrak also has a 27" Retina iMac and he doesn't see the banding issue. Did you try the LR Preferences file reset and restart of LR to load the new file? If you tried all of my troubleshooting suggestions then I suspect at this point you have a manufacturing defect in your iMac's Retina display electronics. That's why I suggested trying an externally attached monitor to see if that might be the case. It doesn't matter if the monitor isn't 5K since the banding should be visible on any display. If this were a LR issue due to an update there would be many other posts complaining about the same issue. There are none here or in the Lightroom Classic forum.
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ChrisB63

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Sorry for the long delay, travelling and taking pics...
And upgrading to Catalina and 9.1 LR

I did it all : downgrade, new catalog, delete so many times all the different previews and cash... you name it

I just want to say that I'm using LR since 1.0 and my actual hardware, iMac 2017, never gave me any problem.

It cannot be an hardware problem as it was said many time in this topic, as I don't have any problem outside of LR - Raw.
Export are fine, Photoshop is fine !!! anything else is fine.
An hardware problem would not be limited to the sky....

I am not pixel peeping to to see the difference between raw and smart preview.

So obviously, there is still a long long long way for optimisation with LR.

The only thing I found to mitigate the problem is to down size the preview quality to medium.

What I can add is the lack of common knowledge regarding the different type of previews and how and when they are used :

- standard preview
- 1:1 preview
- smart preview
- cache

My second problem, round banding / artefacts is not solved.
Playing with the vignetting in lens correction, somehow reduce the artefacts but really in a satisfying way.
LR is not able to deal with the vignetting of this lens (and only this one) Nikon AFP 70-300

Cheers


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Simon Chen, Principal Computer Scientist

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The banding/artifacts due to the use of preview quality negative for generating the previews is known. The team is considering a user option to mitigate that. At the end of the day, it is a tradeoff between rendered image fidelity vs speed. Each customer has their own threshold of tolerance.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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Simon, there is another issue with Smart Previews that have Spot Removal applied. The OP's file shows these as pink squares in the Develop module. In addition when exporting a raw file with Spot Removal applied in LR Classic to Lossy DNG file format the spots appear as pink squares in both the Develop and Library modules at both Fit and 1:1 Zoom view.

I reported this issue at the below post, but it is still present in LR Classic 9.1. I checked this with some a Canon CR2 file and it is also present so not camera specific. If you can't duplicate the issue please let me know. Thank you.

NOTE: I just discovered that an XMP setting file must be present next to the raw file to see the issue.

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/converting-raw-files-to-lossy-dng-sometimes-r...




(Edited)
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ChrisB63

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@Simon Chen thanks Simon for your comment. 
I would like add this :
- up to maybe 8.3 or before, yes it was a trade off between speed and fidelity and that is fine and easy to understand
- but since then, the game changed to usability.

It's unfortunate to have camera going up in resolution and 5k display and having to downgrade the quality on the screen. The monitor is where I enjoy my pics

@Todd Shaner I got those creepy pink squares only once. If I get them again, I will report it here

Thanks everyone
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Simon Chen, Principal Computer Scientist

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Todd, I am not able to reproduce the pink color issue with a couple of raw files (with color patch) that I have. Would you be able to share the CR2 that you have with the xmp, plus the result lossy compressed DNG that exhibits the pink color issue? Thanks in advance.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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Simon, here's a link to a Canon 5D MKII CR2 file, XMP file, and Lossy DNG Export file that exhibits the pink square clone spots. This issue appears to the be the same as when using Smart Previews.


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tyakoxgcfqvhlhh/AACb1i24BtSZ3FQhpufo3Zela?dl=0
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Simon Chen, Principal Computer Scientist

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Thanks Todd. Loaded the photos into LrClassic 9.1, I am not seeing the pink square clone spots. I am running on a MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2018) 10.15.1.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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Simon, I'm using LR 9.1 on Windows 10 Version 1903 Build 18362. The pink squares are only visible in the Lossy DNG Export file. Are you not seeing that?

It's harder to get the pink squares to appear in the CR2 raw file. I was successful previously using Smart Previews with an XMP sidecar, but not today. The OP said he saw them once as well, but no longer.
UPDATE: I was able to see the pink squares with the CR2 file using a Smart Preview with XMP file by going into the Develop module and applying a crop to the previously uncropped raw image file. So it appears cropping the raw image is required to duplicate the issue.


Export to Lossy DNG should show the issue with or without Smart Previews and XMP sidecar files. If you can find what's causing that issue it should fix what's causing it with the raw file. I'm guessing it's due to a race condition, which is hit-or-miss and may be different on faster or slower systems. I've included my System Info below.


Lightroom Classic version: 9.1 [ 201911291132-64cf80b4 ]License: Creative Cloud
Language setting: en
Operating system: Windows 10 - Business Edition
Version: 10.0.18362
Application architecture: x64
System architecture: x64
Logical processor count: 12
Processor speed: 3.6 GHz
Built-in memory: 32715.8 MB
Real memory available to Lightroom: 32715.8 MB
Real memory used by Lightroom: 3318.0 MB (10.1%)
Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 8442.6 MB
GDI objects count: 1804
USER objects count: 3773
Process handles count: 2479
Memory cache size: 1491.1MB
Internal Camera Raw version: 12.1 [ 351 ]
Maximum thread count used by Camera Raw: 5
Camera Raw SIMD optimization: SSE2,AVX,AVX2
Camera Raw virtual memory: 1526MB / 16357MB (9%)
Camera Raw real memory: 1547MB / 32715MB (4%)
System DPI setting: 120 DPI
Desktop composition enabled: Yes
Displays: 1) 2560x1440
Input types: Multitouch: No, Integrated touch: No, Integrated pen: Yes, External touch: No, External pen: Yes, Keyboard: No

Graphics Processor Info:
DirectX: NVIDIA Quadro P2000 (26.21.14.4166)



Application folder: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic
Library Path: C:\Lightroom Classic Catalog\Lightroom Classic Catalog-2.lrcat
Settings Folder: C:\Users\Todd\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom

Installed Plugins:
1) AdobeStock
2) Any Crop
3) Any Filter
4) ColorChecker Passport
5) Deduplicator
6) DNG Recover Edges
7) Facebook
8) Fisheye-Hemi
9) Fix Presets
10) Flickr
11) HDR Efex Pro 2
12) jf Data Explorer
13) LensTagger Exif Tool
14) LR/Enfuse
15) LR/Mogrify 2
16) Luminar Flex
17) Nikon Tether Plugin
18) ProShow
19) ProShow Web

Config.lua flags: None

Adapter #1: Vendor : 10de
    Device : 1c30
    Subsystem : 11b310de
    Revision : a1
    Video Memory : 5032
Adapter #2: Vendor : 1414
    Device : 8c
    Subsystem : 0
    Revision : 0
    Video Memory : 0
AudioDeviceIOBlockSize: 1024
AudioDeviceName: Speakers (Realtek(R) Audio)
AudioDeviceNumberOfChannels: 2
AudioDeviceSampleRate: 48000
Build: 12.1x4
Direct2DEnabled: false
GL_ACCUM_ALPHA_BITS: 16
GL_ACCUM_BLUE_BITS: 16
GL_ACCUM_GREEN_BITS: 16
GL_ACCUM_RED_BITS: 16
GL_ALPHA_BITS: 0
GL_BLUE_BITS: 8
GL_DEPTH_BITS: 24
GL_GREEN_BITS: 8
GL_MAX_3D_TEXTURE_SIZE: 16384
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE: 32768
GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS: 4
GL_MAX_VIEWPORT_DIMS: 32768,32768
GL_RED_BITS: 8
GL_RENDERER: Quadro P2000/PCIe/SSE2
GL_SHADING_LANGUAGE_VERSION: 4.60 NVIDIA
GL_STENCIL_BITS: 8
GL_VENDOR: NVIDIA Corporation
GL_VERSION: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 441.66
GPUDeviceEnabled: false
OGLEnabled: true
GL_EXTENSIONS: GL_AMD_multi_draw_indirect GL_AMD_seamless_cubemap_per_texture GL_AMD_vertex_shader_viewport_index GL_AMD_vertex_shader_layer GL_ARB_arrays_of_arrays GL_ARB_base_instance GL_ARB_bindless_texture GL_ARB_blend_func_extended GL_ARB_buffer_storage GL_ARB_cl_event GL_ARB_clear_buffer_object GL_ARB_clear_texture GL_ARB_clip_control GL_ARB_color_buffer_float GL_ARB_compatibility GL_ARB_compressed_texture_pixel_storage GL_ARB_conservative_depth GL_ARB_compute_shader GL_ARB_compute_variable_group_size GL_ARB_conditional_render_inverted GL_ARB_copy_buffer GL_ARB_copy_image GL_ARB_cull_distance GL_ARB_debug_output GL_ARB_depth_buffer_float GL_ARB_depth_clamp GL_ARB_depth_texture GL_ARB_derivative_control GL_ARB_direct_state_access GL_ARB_draw_buffers GL_ARB_draw_buffers_blend GL_ARB_draw_indirect GL_ARB_draw_elements_base_vertex GL_ARB_draw_instanced GL_ARB_enhanced_layouts GL_ARB_ES2_compatibility GL_ARB_ES3_compatibility GL_ARB_ES3_1_compatibility GL_ARB_ES3_2_compatibility GL_ARB_explicit_attrib_location GL_ARB_explicit_uniform_location GL_ARB_fragment_coord_conventions GL_ARB_fragment_layer_viewport GL_ARB_fragment_program GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow GL_ARB_fragment_shader GL_ARB_fragment_shader_interlock GL_ARB_framebuffer_no_attachments GL_ARB_framebuffer_object GL_ARB_framebuffer_sRGB GL_ARB_geometry_shader4 GL_ARB_get_program_binary GL_ARB_get_texture_sub_image GL_ARB_gl_spirv GL_ARB_gpu_shader5 GL_ARB_gpu_shader_fp64 GL_ARB_gpu_shader_int64 GL_ARB_half_float_pixel GL_ARB_half_float_vertex GL_ARB_imaging GL_ARB_indirect_parameters GL_ARB_instanced_arrays GL_ARB_internalformat_query GL_ARB_internalformat_query2 GL_ARB_invalidate_subdata GL_ARB_map_buffer_alignment GL_ARB_map_buffer_range GL_ARB_multi_bind GL_ARB_multi_draw_indirect GL_ARB_multisample GL_ARB_multitexture GL_ARB_occlusion_query GL_ARB_occlusion_query2 GL_ARB_parallel_shader_compile GL_ARB_pipeline_statistics_query GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object GL_ARB_point_parameters 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GL_ARB_sparse_texture2 GL_ARB_sparse_texture_clamp GL_ARB_spirv_extensions GL_ARB_stencil_texturing GL_ARB_sync GL_ARB_tessellation_shader GL_ARB_texture_barrier GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp GL_ARB_texture_buffer_object GL_ARB_texture_buffer_object_rgb32 GL_ARB_texture_buffer_range GL_ARB_texture_compression GL_ARB_texture_compression_bptc GL_ARB_texture_compression_rgtc GL_ARB_texture_cube_map GL_ARB_texture_cube_map_array GL_ARB_texture_env_add GL_ARB_texture_env_combine GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3 GL_ARB_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_ARB_texture_filter_minmax GL_ARB_texture_float GL_ARB_texture_gather GL_ARB_texture_mirror_clamp_to_edge GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_ARB_texture_multisample GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two GL_ARB_texture_query_levels GL_ARB_texture_query_lod GL_ARB_texture_rectangle GL_ARB_texture_rg GL_ARB_texture_rgb10_a2ui GL_ARB_texture_stencil8 GL_ARB_texture_storage GL_ARB_texture_storage_multisample GL_ARB_texture_swizzle 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GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample GL_EXTX_framebuffer_mixed_formats GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample_blit_scaled GL_EXT_framebuffer_object GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB GL_EXT_geometry_shader4 GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters GL_EXT_gpu_shader4 GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays GL_EXT_multiview_tessellation_geometry_shader GL_EXT_multiview_texture_multisample GL_EXT_multiview_timer_query GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil GL_EXT_packed_float GL_EXT_packed_pixels GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object GL_EXT_point_parameters GL_EXT_polygon_offset_clamp GL_EXT_post_depth_coverage GL_EXT_provoking_vertex GL_EXT_raster_multisample GL_EXT_rescale_normal GL_EXT_secondary_color GL_EXT_separate_shader_objects GL_EXT_separate_specular_color GL_EXT_shader_image_load_formatted GL_EXT_shader_image_load_store GL_EXT_shader_integer_mix GL_EXT_shadow_funcs GL_EXT_sparse_texture2 GL_EXT_stencil_two_side GL_EXT_stencil_wrap GL_EXT_texture3D GL_EXT_texture_array GL_EXT_texture_buffer_object GL_EXT_texture_compression_dxt1 GL_EXT_texture_compression_latc GL_EXT_texture_compression_rgtc GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc GL_EXT_texture_cube_map GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp GL_EXT_texture_env_combine GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3 GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic GL_EXT_texture_filter_minmax GL_EXT_texture_integer GL_EXT_texture_lod GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp GL_EXT_texture_object GL_EXT_texture_shadow_lod GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent GL_EXT_texture_sRGB GL_EXT_texture_sRGB_R8 GL_EXT_texture_sRGB_decode GL_EXT_texture_storage GL_EXT_texture_swizzle GL_EXT_timer_query GL_EXT_transform_feedback2 GL_EXT_vertex_array GL_EXT_vertex_array_bgra GL_EXT_vertex_attrib_64bit GL_EXT_window_rectangles GL_EXT_import_sync_object GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat GL_KHR_context_flush_control GL_KHR_debug GL_EXT_memory_object GL_EXT_memory_object_win32 GL_EXT_win32_keyed_mutex GL_KHR_parallel_shader_compile GL_KHR_no_error GL_KHR_robust_buffer_access_behavior GL_KHR_robustness 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GL_NV_fragment_program2 GL_NV_fragment_shader_interlock GL_NV_framebuffer_mixed_samples GL_NV_framebuffer_multisample_coverage GL_NV_geometry_shader4 GL_NV_geometry_shader_passthrough GL_NV_gpu_program4 GL_NV_internalformat_sample_query GL_NV_gpu_program4_1 GL_NV_gpu_program5 GL_NV_gpu_program5_mem_extended GL_NV_gpu_program_fp64 GL_NV_gpu_shader5 GL_NV_half_float GL_NV_light_max_exponent GL_NV_memory_attachment GL_NV_multisample_coverage GL_NV_multisample_filter_hint GL_NV_occlusion_query GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil GL_NV_parameter_buffer_object GL_NV_parameter_buffer_object2 GL_NV_path_rendering GL_NV_path_rendering_shared_edge GL_NV_pixel_data_range GL_NV_point_sprite GL_NV_primitive_restart GL_NV_query_resource GL_NV_query_resource_tag GL_NV_register_combiners GL_NV_register_combiners2 GL_NV_sample_locations GL_NV_sample_mask_override_coverage GL_NV_shader_atomic_counters GL_NV_shader_atomic_float GL_NV_shader_atomic_float64 GL_NV_shader_atomic_fp16_vector GL_NV_shader_atomic_int64 GL_NV_shader_buffer_load GL_NV_shader_storage_buffer_object GL_NV_shader_subgroup_partitioned GL_NV_stereo_view_rendering GL_NV_texgen_reflection GL_NV_texture_barrier GL_NV_texture_compression_vtc GL_NV_texture_env_combine4 GL_NV_texture_multisample GL_NV_texture_rectangle GL_NV_texture_rectangle_compressed GL_NV_texture_shader GL_NV_texture_shader2 GL_NV_texture_shader3 GL_NV_transform_feedback GL_NV_transform_feedback2 GL_NV_uniform_buffer_unified_memory GL_NV_vertex_array_range GL_NV_vertex_array_range2 GL_NV_vertex_attrib_integer_64bit GL_NV_vertex_buffer_unified_memory GL_NV_vertex_program GL_NV_vertex_program1_1 GL_NV_vertex_program2 GL_NV_vertex_program2_option GL_NV_vertex_program3 GL_NV_viewport_array2 GL_NV_viewport_swizzle GL_NVX_conditional_render GL_NVX_linked_gpu_multicast GL_NV_gpu_multicast GL_NVX_gpu_multicast2 GL_NVX_progress_fence GL_NVX_gpu_memory_info GL_NVX_multigpu_info GL_NVX_nvenc_interop GL_NV_shader_thread_group GL_NV_shader_thread_shuffle GL_KHR_blend_equation_advanced GL_KHR_blend_equation_advanced_coherent GL_OVR_multiview GL_OVR_multiview2 GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap GL_SGIS_texture_lod GL_SGIX_depth_texture GL_SGIX_shadow GL_SUN_slice_accum GL_WIN_swap_hint WGL_EXT_swap_control
(Edited)
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Jao van de Lagemaat

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I can't reproduce this on my MacBook Pro. Exported a whole bunch of lossy dngs with lots of dust bunnies cloned, with or without resizing and can't seem to get them. Must be very hardware or condition specific. MBP running catalina and LRC 9.1. 2.9 GHz 6-core i9. 
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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It appears to be due to a race condition, but applying Spot Removal Clone (NOT Heal) spots appear as pink squares in Export to Lossy DNG file format very repeatably. Jao, try the Canon 5D MKII CR2 and XMP settings file at the below Dropbox link, which has Spot Removal Clone spots already applied. I also tested a Nikon D850 with Spot Removal Clone spots and get the pink squares every time so it doesn't appear to be camera model dependent. Also with 'Use Graphics Processor' set to OFF the pink squares are still present.

EDIT: The pink squares only appear in the Library module and zooming to 1:1 view will sometimes remove the spots, but not always. I've also uploaded a new XMP setting file at the below link. I couldn't reproduce the issue with the original Dropbox CR2 and XMP file download, which I noticed had both Clone AND Heal spots applied. The new XMP file has only Clone spots applied. If you downloaded it previously delete it and download the new XMP file.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/tyakoxgcfqvhlhh/AACb1i24BtSZ3FQhpufo3Zela?dl=0

(Edited)
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Jao van de Lagemaat

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Thanks Todd. Can reproduce it now with your CR2 file. I get big pink squares (8 of them) all over upon reimport of the exported lossy dng but only when I go into Develop with it. They clear up when I slightly move the clone spots. Strangely the lossy dng that you put in the folder too does not show them even when I go into develop. I can reproduce it with files from my Z7 and other Nikons. I only see it happen when I go into Develop. you can see the clone spots switch color.
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Jao van de Lagemaat

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I.e. clearly a bug in Lightroom. The spots do not show as pink squares when opening the same file in ACR.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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Jao, thank you for confirming it's clearly a bug and not something unique to my system.

Using the new XMP file (IMG_0154.xmp) I just uploaded to the Dropbox link a few minutes ago I can see the pink squares in both the Library and Develop modules, but not when opened in ACR. I can also confirm the IMG_0154-Lossy DNG.DNG file I uploaded to Dropbox now does not show the pinks squares when downloaded and viewed in LR. However, the original lossy dng export file still exhibits the issue inside LR 9.1.

There is a similar post here:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/converting-raw-files-to-lossy-dng-sometimes-r...
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ChrisB63

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I didn’t get the pink box with a dng file but a nef
And for spot removal I use healing and not clone
But I got it only once
What’s interesting is to see it happened on different hardware and different OS
(Edited)
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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I didn’t get the pink box with a dng file
It only happens when exporting a raw file to DNG file format with 'Use Lossy Compression' checked (i.e. lossy DNG).
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Jao van de Lagemaat

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Here is perhaps a hint on what causes this. This is one of the exported and reimported lossy dngs with cloning already on the image. When I now add another clone point that gets its source from a previously cloned area, this happens:

The new clone point is not filled with the pink square like the others but amazingly it clones the pink square over which means that the pink square gets generated in the processing pipeline in Develop. Also this image has upright corrections done which is probably why the pink squares are slanted. The pink squares and the cloned pink square corner will now remain when going to Library!
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Jao van de Lagemaat

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Oh and they also end up in exported jpegs now from this file!
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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Bizarre and hopefully fixable! I use lossy DNG file format with large LR Photo Merge to HDR and Panorama DNGs to reduce storage space. With exception of this issue I rarely see any difference between the uncompressed DNG and lossy DNG.