latest LR buggy - spot removal tool doesn't work right at edges of image

  • 5
  • Problem
  • Updated 11 months ago
it makes the spot worse by smearing it. I'd attach screen caps but there doesn't seem to be a way to do that...
Photo of Michael Burke

Michael Burke

  • 109 Posts
  • 3 Reply Likes

Posted 2 years ago

  • 5
Photo of sangrevista

sangrevista

  • 4 Posts
  • 1 Reply Like
Sometimes the Clone option works better than Heal at the edges.
Photo of Hamish Niven

Hamish Niven

  • 70 Posts
  • 24 Reply Likes
It does the same in Photoshop, its a way that the healing algorithm works based on the pixels around the spot you are taking out.There are no pixels to work with close to the edge, so the software has no reference to work with.Not so much a bug but an upgrader to the healing algorithm - or as Sangrevista suggested, do a clone and then try some more precise healing over the top of the cloned edit. This usually always works for me.Takes a little longer but does the job.
Photo of Anthony Blackett

Anthony Blackett

  • 81 Posts
  • 33 Reply Likes
This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled Spot removal in Heal mode doesn't work properly at a crop boundary edge.

Removing a spot or object at the edge of a cropped image using the spot removal brush in the Heal mode makes a complete mess. This has been a problem for quite some time and I have reported it before, but the issue has been ignored, like so many others reported in this forum.

I have taken two images to demonstrate the problem. The first I will refer to as Image1 and is taken at 200mm, while the second, Image2, is taken zoomed out a little at 170mm. The two images are shown below side by side in LR Classic with Image1 on the left. Notice in Image1 there is a small part of a tree top visible in the lower left corner of the image. Since Image2 is taken zoomed out a little, more of the tree line is visible in this image. I will crop this second image so that it looks the same as Image1.



I want to remove the small tree top in both images from the bottom left corner using the spot removal brush, but first I apply Remove Chromatic Aberration and Enable Lens Profile to both images, then crop Image2 so that it is the same as Image1, i.e. a little bit of the tree top is visible in the bottom left corner. I then use the spot removal brush in Heal mode with settings Size 85, Feather 50 and Opacity 100 to remove the tree top in the corner of each image. The results are shown below and it is clear that the spot removal in the corner of Image2 on the right hasn't done a very good job at all.



Looking at the sampled areas for the spot removal in each image, shown below, in Image1 the sampled area is fine and achieves the desired result, whereas in Image2, the sampled area is way off the mark for the intended spot removal.





Even trying to correct the problem in Image2 by moving the sampled area to an appropriate part of the image does not produce a satisfactory result, as shown below.



Changing the brush to Clone mode does do a better job in this example only after moving the sampled area to a better part of the image for cloning. However, the first click in Clone mode still samples a darker part of the image giving a bad result that needs more action to correct.

The problem is very clear to me. LR is trying to heal the spot in the corner of Image2 while treating the image content outside the crop border as part of the image. Below is Image2 showing the badly removed spot outside the crop boundary. So LR is trying to heal the corner based on the dark parts of the tree line that is outside the crop area.



I believe this is completely the wrong approach. Any image data outside the crop boundary should be ignored when removing spots. After all, LR knows where the crop boundary is and takes this into account when building the Histogram of a cropped image - it doesn't look outside the crop boundary for the Histogram and shouldn't for spot removal either.

At the very least, there should be an option in the spot removal tool to choose whether to ignore the image data outside the crop boundary.
Photo of Anthony Blackett

Anthony Blackett

  • 81 Posts
  • 33 Reply Likes
Rikk, I do not appreciate you merging my post into one that is 11 months old. I consciously made the decision to post as a new topic because I was specifically targeting Lightroom Classic CC with an accurate description of a real problem, albeit an existing one pre Classic CC, providing an explanation of why this problem is occurring and what should be done about it.

You have effectively down-graded my post by merging it into an old, vague post that will now be ignored again. And where are the replies that have already been made to my post?

Very poor move on your part. It's no wonder we users are getting so frustrated at not being heard by Adobe.
Photo of Anthony Blackett

Anthony Blackett

  • 81 Posts
  • 33 Reply Likes
I think my original post may have been at https://forums.adobe.com/message/5459736 which no longer exists, at least for public access.

I really don't see this as a 'debatable change' Victoria. The issue I'm raising is not about selecting source pixels from outside the crop boundary, which causes the problem of not being able to see the source area or move it. That was suppose to have been dealt with following my original post in 2013, but it still persists and is a side effect of including pixels from outside the crop boundary.

The point of my latest post is that 'healing' is using image pixels in the destination from outside the crop boundary - a very different part of the algorithm. Including destination pixels from outside the crop boundary also has the side effect of choosing an unsuitable source area inside (or outside) the crop boundary, as my example clearly demonstrates. Then combining these outside crop destination pixels with the source pixels in a healing blend invariably results in a messy blob that can't be fixed using the brush's Heal mode, no matter how good the source pixels are. Although cloning might work after a suitable source is located, the result may not be a good as healing potentially could be because the copied pixels might be too obvious, requiring more work than should be necessary.

If there are circumstances where the current behaviour is desired, which I seriously doubt (turning a spot into an ugly blob isn't very desirable), then adding an option that allows users to ignore pixels outside the crop boundary in the spot tool gives the choice to the user, not to the software developer.
Photo of Anthony Blackett

Anthony Blackett

  • 81 Posts
  • 33 Reply Likes
Not my original report, but very similar:

https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/healing_brush_sources_from_outside_cropped_area

Note the second reply from Kelly C.

Just to be clear, as I mentioned, the current behavior is as designed. That said, I agree that this aspect of the Spot Removal workflow can be improved, and have delivered this feedback to our engineers. Please look for improvements in this area in a future release.

4 years on and still waiting to see improvement!

Photo of Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen

Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

  • 4426 Posts
  • 1635 Reply Likes
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but you're suggesting that if there's a crop boundary, the circular spot should have a straight edge wherever it hits the crop boundary. How would you imagine it working if you then changed the crop?
Photo of Anthony Blackett

Anthony Blackett

  • 81 Posts
  • 33 Reply Likes
Victoria, I would have to say that changing the crop would require a revisit of the spot removals - after all, changing crop results in a rebuild of the histogram.
Photo of Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen

Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

  • 4426 Posts
  • 1635 Reply Likes
Interesting logic. I can see where you're coming from.