Lightroom CC/Classic: Keywords not updated; syncing problematic

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This conversation has been merged. Please reference the main conversation: Lightroom: Keywords don't sync between CC and Classic

I tried using the new LR CC on my desktop, together with LR Classic CC.  I found the latter to be similar to CC for Web, with some additions.  Syncing worked fine if, for instance, I added a star rating to one of my photos, removed it from an album, or stopped syncing a specific album.  Right away, the changes would propagate to LR CC and CC for Web.

However, the same could not be said for keywords (which, of course, are only relevant to LR CC, but not CC for Web).  First off, I discovered that LR CC was only picking up keywords that had been written as metadata to disk.  That means that before syncing a collection from LR Classic, I needed to save metadata to file.  If I had already synced the collection and then saved the metadata, the changes were not picked up by LR CC.  Even if I quit and restarted the program, the metadata was not reloaded.  And that's despite the fact that LR Classic would immediately sync the file anew whenever I saved the metadata to file.  

The only way I could get LR CC to re-read the metadata was to first stop syncing the collection from within LR Classic, then to delete all the individual photos from the "All Photos" view within LR CC, and then to sync the collection again.

(Incidentally, related to this is the issue of how to control which keywords are written to file.  I had indicated not to export certain keywords, yet those were still saved as metadata and picked up by LR CC.  And even this behavior was not consistent.  Certain higher-level keywords appear to have been applied to some photos but not others within the same album.)

Another issue is that there doesn't seem to be a way to edit keywords.  At some point, I had corrected the spelling for someone's name keyword on LR Classic.  The earlier spelling seems to have been saved to metadata, because when I synced a photo of the person, LR CC had a keyword for each spelling.  I could remove the incorrect keyword from the individual photo, but there didn't seem to be a way to do this across the whole system.
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Ethan Isenberg

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  • disappointed

Posted 11 months ago

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Selondon

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I believe that’s the only way to get them to work Ethan.

Unfortunately, there is no straight Keyword sync between the LrCC clients and Lr Classic or vice versa.
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Ethan Isenberg

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Thanks for your reply.  Are you aware whether things work better when migrating?
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Selondon

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I believe migration flattens hierarchical Keywords from Classic. New Keywords will then sync between LrCC clients but not back to Classic.

Best to get someone like Vicoria Brampton to clarify that!
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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Yep, that's spot on. Migration takes the keywords from the catalog, rather than XMP, so it should send the latest version.
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Selondon

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Bampton even! It’s too early. Cheers Victoria.
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Søren Langkilde Madsen

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I have a lot of collections shared. When i see these collections in Lr mobile (eg iPad/iPhone) - some of the collections have their keywords synched and some does not.

The problem is not flat or not flat - the problem is that it is random which photos have their keywords synched and have not.
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Andrew Giffin

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I'm seeing the same thing here. I understand that in its current implementation, keywords won't stay synced between Classic and CC (although hopefully soon... I've been waiting to be able to use keywords to search on mobile forever!) In the meantime though, the keywords that were present when first adding a photo to a synced collection should do a one-time transfer to CC. Some of mine do not, and it appears to be random. It's not specific to raw files or jpgs, and the photos that don't take their keywords with them the first time still don't do it even after I manually delete them from CC, chose "save metadata to file" in Classic, and then re-add them to a synced collection. Anyone have any idea what could be going on there?
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Ethan Isenberg

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Andrew, when you press delete are you making sure that you are actually deleting them, rather than simply removing them from the album?  When viewing an album, the delete button only does the latter, but there's a menu command that does the former (as well as the option-delete keystroke).

The tricky thing is that if you delete the photo before un-syncing your collection, then it will remove it from the collection in Classic (though I don't think it would delete it from the library as well).  If you un-sync your collection, then the album disappears from CC, and it may be challenging to find the photos to then delete them.  That's why I mentioned that short window of time between un-syncing the collection and when the album disappears to delete the photos properly.
(Edited)
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Andrew Giffin

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Hey Ethan. Yes, deleting permanently from “all photographs” in CC, not just the album. I make sure they’re gone from all devices before resyncing in Classic (which should be unnecessary I think we all agree!) but some photos never get their keywords no matter what, and I cannot figure out what they have in common that would cause that. Others of the same file types, from the same cameras, with the same keywords applied do work.
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Ethan Isenberg

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Were the keywords saved as metadata the first time you synced? I had the sense when I first tried this that there may be some "memory" to CC, so that even if you deleted a photo from the library, it remembered that there were no keywords. The next time it appeared, even though it had new metadata on file, CC just went with what it remembered. Is that possible?

It could have something to do with syncing with multiple devices, each of which may have different photos (especially if they were offline).
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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> there doesn't seem to be a way to edit keywords.  At some point, I had corrected the spelling for someone's name keyword on LR Classic.  The earlier spelling seems to have been saved to metadata, because when I synced a photo of the person, LR CC had a keyword for each spelling.  I could remove the incorrect keyword from the individual photo, but there didn't seem to be a way to do this across the whole system.

Select All Photographs, use the Refine View to filter for all of the photos with the "wrong spelling" keyword, select them all, add the right keyword and delete the wrong keyword.
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Ethan Isenberg

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Ah, thanks for pointing that out. 
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Ethan Isenberg

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Another thing that could be improved about keywords:  There's no auto-complete when adding them.  You get to check off which keyword(s) you'd like when doing a search, but this functionality isn't there when adding keywords to a photo (which has to be done one-at-a-time, in any case, since edits can't be made to more than one photo).
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Ethan Isenberg

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I was hoping that with the new cloud functionality, I could create a smart album or keyword linked to a specific person from my photos in LR Classic, and share that with family.  The advantage over a regular album is that this would be automatically be updated as more photos are added. 

The problem is that smart albums don't sync and keywords don't appear in CC for the Web.  As we've discussed, keywords don't sync to LR CC Desktop properly from LR Classic, unless I make sure to always write metadata to the file.  But, I'd have to first put the relevant photos in a synced regular collection, which defeats the whole purpose.
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Peter Obermeier

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Ethan, have found that Caption/Subtitle field sync in all directions, from web to LR Mobile and to LR Classic and back.
All my keywords are in caption field as well as a workaround for iOS Apps which can read and search caption, but no keywords.
And yes, it would be great to have Smart albums sync! :-)
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Ethan Isenberg

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Just took a look at the new LR CC for iOS, and keywords can be viewed and edited on an individual basis, or searched (using a text field).  They can't, however, be applied as a filter, as with CC for Desktop.
(Edited)
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Ethan Isenberg

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Tip regarding updating keywords for a synced regular collection:
As I mentioned above, the only way to get keywords to update from LR Classic to LR CC is to stop syncing the collection, delete the individual photos from LR CC, and then sync it again.  But, how do you delete the photos once the collection is not syncing?  They can obviously be hard to find once they are unattached to an album. 

I discovered that if you first open the album in LR CC before you stop syncing it in in LR Classic, and then turn off syncing, that you can then select all and delete within LR CC.  But, you have to do it quickly, because a few seconds after you stop syncing, the album will go away, and you will be looking at all of your photos.  No biggie if this is your most recently added album, since you can simply sort by modified date.  But, if it's an album added earlier, I don't think there would be any quick way to find the individual photos.
(Edited)
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Craig

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Just to confirm Ethan's findings above - keywords do not seem to sync between Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic (captions work fine - but keywords do not). Hopefully an update will remedy this.
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Craig

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Absolutely right.  I have 50 photographers just waiting for the keyword sync between Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC to be activated. I can't second guess why Adobe have done this - but from a business point of view, it would improve our business workflow hugely if they either activated the sync, or improved Lightroom CC so that it was a usable alternative to Classic (i.e. improving metadata, and file renaming). Again, from a business point of view, I bet there are a million stock photographers sitting waiting for the same thing - as their income totally relies on keywording.
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Johan Elzenga, Champion

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What I've been told is that synching keywords is tricky, because Lr Classic has hierarchical keywords. Lightroom CC doesn't have that, but even if it did it would still not be so simple. Apparently you can't always predict in what order the information arrives, so if the keyword 'Felix' arrives, Lr doesn't know whether that is a new root keyword 'Felix' or perhaps the existing 'Cats > Felix'. And if you already have two occurrences (could easily happen for towns), it is even more complicated. Let's hope they find a way to solve this.
(Edited)
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Ethan Isenberg

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Well, why don't they implement hierarchical keywords for CC as well? That would certainly set them apart from Apple Photos / iCloud (not to mention Google Photos, which eschews manual keywords altogether, when I last checked).
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john beardsworth

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Don't let yourself believe that arrival order theory, Johan. They could send a comma-separated text string which would arrive as a single piece of information. Processing that information in Classic isn't as simple as processing a title or caption, but it isn't rocket science. They could solve it if they wanted to do so.
(Edited)
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Rob Flynn

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As a programmer, I laugh at the idea that hierarchical keywords cannot be synced.  That is bollocks.  Adobe is simply guilty of believing that anything old must be bad, and the new way is automatically better.  Or they are just lazy.

Fix this, Adobe.  Keyword sync, get on it.
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Theo Angell

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This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled LR Classic Keywords to LR CC.

Apparently Keywords don't transfer from LR Classic to LR CC... That is a huge mistake, I think. I have thousands of photos in Classic, do you really expect me and all other photographers to start from scratch when using LR CC? That is unthinkable. Please fix this!
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Ethan Isenberg

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Do you mean keywords that have been applied to photos, or your pre-existing photo hierarchy? Sounds like the former transfer one-way if you do the official merge (but they don't sync, which is what many of us would prefer). But, the latter does not work, unfortunately.
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Denise Evans

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I too am faced with thousands image files and their keywords not migrating to CC when is Adobe going to fix this "bug" I can't afford the time to redo keywords. 
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Michel Davancens

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I fully agree with Ethan. I have been using Lightroom since LR1 and I am really fond of this software. Lightroom CC seems to me a huge step forward and I try to use it on my laptop for more than 2 months. However key-words are a serious issue. Compared to Lightroom Classic Lightroom CC handles key words very poorly and above all sync between LR Classic and LR CC doesn't really work for key words. For me this is a huge drawback and prevents me tu use LR CC efficiently on my laptop. I hope that Adobe will change his mind and reconsider key words in LR CC.
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Jürgen Schmid

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Reading through this threat it is amazing how Adobe lets it’s customers struggle over such essentials like keyword sync between classic and cc. Trying to get around this problem in 100 ways with deleting collections to resync and using capture instead keywords. A proper sync solution within the Adobe world may be expected, me too I wasted a couple of hours..

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