Is Adobe treating LR/6 user badly in comparision to LR/CC users??

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To fix the Nikon lens metadata issue, I was unable to use
the update function in LR6.5 to get the LR6.5.1.  Luck for me I was able
to get the link from Laura Shoe's LR Blog, and did download the patch. 


As a long time user (LR2) I feel like a second class citizen.  I cannot get phone support even when they screw up and issue bug fixes such this Nikon Lens issue and the inability to run "check for update”. I’m also 100% sure if I was a LRCC user I could talk with a support person.   

Adobe seems hell bent on shoving LRCC and the monthly cash milking users at every turn.   Does anyone else feel Adobe has abandoned the base of desktop/stand alone LR users?

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Doug Stead

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Posted 3 years ago

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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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Sorry to hear you're having trouble checking for an update.  That's not specific to perpetual licenses and can happen to anyone (but is most frequently reported by people who rolled back from 6.2 to 6.1, it seems).

The fix is usually to simply uninstall and reinstall Lightroom.  Are you Mac or PC?
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Doug Stead

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I am a Windows PC user.  I also can't use LRCC as halfthe time I am in the wilderness of northern BC, well off the grid, and haveonly a satellite link with minimal and slow data up capacity, to say nothingof the cost per MB. 

Since Adobe wentCC and at every opportunity pushes their monthly milking/payment on users,  I have seendeteriorating levels of deplorable care and service provided perpetual licensefolks.  More importantly with each update tomy desktop LR, CC artifacts get loaded into my registry.  These use my computer resources and slow my machine, and Ican't seem to get rid of them... VERY FRUSRATING.....

I would ask that you kindly consider expanding your training product line toinclude ON1. 


I have been using this product for a while and have seen muchinnovative technological advancement. This is typical of small, hungry andcustomer centric companies.  This fall On1will release a version supporting RAW files.  I may well dump LR and gowith a company that cares about its long term user and former supporter.Pardon my French.
(Edited)
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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You should be able to use Lightroom offline for at least 30 days (and with reminders, longer than that), so tell us more about what's going wrong.

I do understand your frustration, and there certainly have been some teething problems with the transition to the new licensing system. There have also been some major changes in the engineering team which inevitably take some time to settle down, but I think they'll figure it out. It's a new frontier for Adobe, as much as it is for us.

Personally, I don't like to throw the baby out with the bathwater, as the saying goes, but it will certainly be interesting to see where OnOne go with their new products. Every new system has teething trouble, but the competition can only be good for us as users.
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Doug Stead

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Since upgrading my desktop Win 64 Bit LR, (post CC product push) these processes have installed themselves and eat up resources and slow my computer:

Adobe CEF Helper.exe *32        69,364K
Adobe Desktop Services *32     39,776K
AdobeIPCBroker.exe *32             4,500K
AdobeupdateService *32             1,592K  (doesn't work anyways)
CCLibrary.exe *32                           660K
CCXProcess.exe *32                       564K

I simply want my desktop LR to have nothing what-so-ever to do with Adobe's cload service or product.  I can't use these services most of the time, even if I was interested.  When I am off grid, this is costing me money and band width.

Thanks in advance for anything you can do to get Adobe to understand there is a need for a "clean" none cload-connected product that is not calling home.   It is not the loyal user who are throughig the desktop baby out with the bath water.  It is Adobe themselves.  Cheers... 
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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If you have a perpetual license, then in theory, you shouldn't need the CC app installed.  And if you're not able to use the programs when you're offline, then there's something else going on here.  Since you can't get the update system to work properly either, then personally, I'd uninstall, run Adobe's CC Cleaner app to remove all traces of the Adobe software, and then run the LR6 installer from your account page (which I don't think installs the CC app, unlike the trials)
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Doug Stead

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Thanks.  This is the 1st I have herd of the CC Cleaner program.  I had a look at the instructions https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-cloud/kb/cc-cleaner-tool-installation-problems.html .  It list all other Adobe programs CC version, but doesn't list the LR CC version. 

Uninstall app

I have no wish to uninstall and loss my cat files.  Can you confirm that this CC Cleaner will remove Cload artificats or does it uninstall mt Desktop Lightroom?  Part of the issues here is that Adobe in inconsistant in all it's documentation as to allow the user understand which product they are talking about...  Another example of abbandoning the desktop users.

Thanks for your help Victoria.
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I spy Lightroom in that list.  It's missing the CC because it's exactly the same build for CC or 6.

CC Cleaner would uninstall, so you'd need to reinstall afterwards.

It won't delete your catalog, but checking your backups are up to date would be a good idea: http://www.lightroomqueen.com/backup-lightroom-files/

But hang on... there's a load of CC apps in that list.  I thought you said you were on a perpetual license, not CC?
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Exactly, I never signed up for the cloud version.  WhenLRCC came out, I tried it, didn't like it, and took it off my androidphone.  Ever since then I have been unable to ride myself of the artifactson my desktop standalone version, which with  updates and paid for upgrades, keeps  loading themselves each time.

Also why is it, LR6 can’t be CCcleaned like my PS?  It has to be uninstalled and a new versionput in place just so I can ride myself of cloud artifacts.  This seems to me to indicate,  LR6 and LRCC are two different products whenit comes to support and testing.  This also supports my contention thatAdobe is letting LR6 die a long palliative death. 

I have tried to speak with Adobe several times and withoutsuccess.  Back in the day of phonesupport, I called on 3 occasions and was very happy with the supportprovided.  Today, not under any conditions, will help be given unless itinvolves LRCC.  To add salt to this wound,   even when they screw upsomething (with a paid 6.x upgrade)  like the latest Nikon support issueinvolving my D3S, D750, D2Sx  and a plethora of Nikon lens, the painstarts anew.

Hence my feeling Adobe doesn’t care about their orphanedbase of long suffering desktop LR users..... 

I do hope you can pass along these issues to someone insideAdobe who understand it is a lot harder to get a new client then it is to keepan existing one!!  Thanks for letting merant a bit here.
(Edited)
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So why have you installed all of the other CC apps?   If you don't use them, you might as well uninstall them too.

And what do you mean "why is it, LR6 can’t be CCcleaned like my PS"?  Cleaning involves uninstalling any of the apps you're trying to clean, CC or otherwise.

> LR6 and LRCC are two different products when it comes to support and testing.
No, they're exactly the same software, except the CC version opens up early access to some additional features.

> I have tried to speak with Adobe several times and without success
They do offer chat support for perpetual licenses, but not phone support (although phone support is pretty limited for CC too)

I understand you're really frustrated, and Adobe do read the posts here.
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Doug Stead

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The image I place above was taken from the support page of Adobe for the CCCleaner.  I don't have all of these installed.  I do have PS on the desktop, which I haven’t installed updates or upgrades and hence hasn’t had the opportunity to be given any cloud treatments.  On reading the support page about CCCleaner, I understood that only LR needed to reinstall completely fresh version.  I could have this wrong. 

LR6.5 is a lot different, as my 6.5 cannot be updated to 6.5.1 from within the application.  As I see no cloud user complaining about this issue, testing was laim or missed on my product.  If it was not for people like yourself and Laura Shoe, it would be almost impossible to find the updates for LR6.5 on Adobe's site, to say nothing of being able to talk with their staff about real concerns and issues.

Thanks for understand my frustration.  Perhaps a Class Action Law Suit would better get Adobe attention.  If Adobe is reading this.... a lot of people, your customers, paid good money for your product every time an upgrade was offered. 

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I'd suggest:

uninstall anything Adobe from your computer,
run the CC cleaner and remove anything else it sees,
install your pre-CC products, PS-CS-something,
install LR 6.0 from the download area,
license it with a serial number,
update it to the 6.5.1 patch from the same download area.
https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/lightroom-downloads.html

That's about as clean as you can make your system, aside from starting over with a new Windows install, which you can also do.  LR 6 requires phoning home periodically to check to make sure no more than two instances are licensed with the same serial number.

A class-action lawsuit, telling Adobe to go back to the good-old-days of having local serial number validation the sole licensing check so there isn't any need for an internet connection won't likely work.

If you are having a specific issue on a slow satellite connection where LR won't start up as licensed or phones home much too often then that may be something Adobe can look at and fix, but just saying you don't like CC processes running on your computer isn't likely specific enough to be actionable.  Other software companies are less pirated so try less hard to keep from being so.  The default assumption for software nowadays is always connected so if there is something that happens wrong when you're not always connected that is something Adobe may be able to look at.

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Doug Stead

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Hello Steve,

 Thanks in advance for your help and advice with my concerns.

The only thing I EVER did with LRCC is try it on my cell phone. A week, I removed it from my phone.  I never knowingly installed LRCC on my laptop and my desktop.  So how did all the artifacts of LRCC end up on my computers? 

I assume Adobe put them there with one of the updates or perhaps when I paid for an upgrade.  Let me know if I am wrong in this regard please.   

Canadians in general are not a litigious bunch, especially when compared to our southern neighbours, nor am I a lawyer.  However talking about such things as involving the courts, often garners’ the attention of a Corporation’s Board of Directors and their legal department.  Who knows, perhaps I am not the only one whose level of frustration has reached its peak and there are sufficient numbers of others feel the same.

I do think the way Adobe has handled this conversion to a cloud based product with an intentional and deliberate plan to push, if not force, users like myself to a monthly pay as you go system.  Just try and to find the updates for just the “desktop” version?  It is as if the desktop version already no longer exists. 

As to phoning home, I have no issues what-so-ever with LR6 doing this, this even over my sat-link. I am using a legitimate copy of LR. In point of fact, this works just fine and will continue to work well as long as copper wire and fibrotic remain the backbone of 1st world data communications.  

Each of which are 12MBytes through 26Mbytes depending on which Nikon body I am using.  Even if I converted them all to Adobe's lossless Digital Negative (DNG) file format, moving this much data at 1Mbit/second up is going to cost a fortune and take hours and hours. 
   
I would be very interested in any solution Adobe may come up with in regard to working via a sat-link that doesn’t involve moving mega data up and down.  

Cheers,

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So do you have a CC subscription, perhaps the $10/month-LR+PS or $50/month-full-suite, or do you not have one?  Do you also have a serial-number license for LR 6?   It's hard to distill this small bit of information from the rest of the words that have been written.  If you go to www.adobe.com, login with your AdobeID, click Manage Account, what do you see for current plans and are they payfor or free?  And if you click into Other Products do you see a LR 6 serial number listed as well?

Adobe does want to get paid with a monthly cashflow, yes, rather than a big lump of upgrade fees every 1-2 years as it used to be, where not everyone upgraded so projecting revenue was difficult.   They pay their employees and facilities rent and loan payments on an consistent basis so it makes perfect sense to have a consistent influx of revenue to match.

The "cloud" and "mobile" are not synonymous.  "Mobile" is a benefit of having a subscription but not the main purpose.

"Cloud" is a buzzword that means communicating through and perhaps storage of data using the internet.  In the case of LR this communication would be between LR Desktop and LR Mobile, and you can store information in the cloud to communicate between multiple instances of other Creative Cloud products, less so LR, which has been more of a standalone product. 

What "cloud" means in terms of Adobe is a subscription license that you pay monthly as opposed to a serial number which is a perpetual license.  It seems as though your AdobeID may have both associated with it, but that's my initial question.

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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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> I never knowingly installed LRCC on my laptop and my desktop.  So how did all the artifacts of LRCC end up on my computers?

I'm not certain.  Depending on which installer you used, you most likely installed them with Lightroom at some stage, but without knowing everything you've done, it's impossible to say.

But even with the CC software installed, it wouldn't be moving large amounts of data, so what makes you think it is doing so?
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Hi Steve,

On your advice, I logged into my Adobe account.  According to the "Products Registered Products" page I have serial number(s) for LR6, LR5, LR4, LR3 LR2 and CS4.  I have no CC products listed there.  I can provide you the serial numbers if you like.

Low and behold, I do have a "Creative Cloud Free membership"  FREE according to the little box on the bottom right of the screen. This is news to me.  I was not asked if I wanted to have this gift, nor did I ever sign of for any such privilege.

I apologies for ranting on, and confusion this has caused you in your efforts to help me.  I have tried to speak to someone, anyone at Adobe, but as you probably know, they do not want to talk with customers. That is of course unless one is buying something from them....

Your comment on Adobe's Cash flow seems defensive.   Sales that came from people like me, when I was a newbie, start the month we bought into this product line.  Hence Adobe's cash flow for new user give or take a margin for error, predictable with big cash injection generated by new releases.  This of course predicated on the renewing users see value in the upgraded new release

Now with the CC monthly milking structure Adobe makes much more money monthly, without ever having to justify the value proposition of a new release.  Adobe has a life cycle and is now past middle age as a massive corporation.  Today they are driven by the bottom line and not paying attention to their client base let alone client satisfaction

I was sold on LR as a standalone and perpetual licence.  My frustration remains as I want to rid my computers of the associated LRCC software that I did not put on my machines.  Further I don’t want Adobe to reinstall these with updates or upgrades. This sound so simple,  so why is this such a problem. 

Cheers,

Doug
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If you go to Control Panel - Programs & Features, do you see Adobe Creative Cloud as a program you can uninstall?  Or is it not installed?

There are licensing verification background processes that need to run even if LR 6 is installed and licensed with a serial number, so maybe that's all you're seeing, even though they've been rebranded with CC in their names. 

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Greetings Doug,

Having read through the thread here, I am guessing that you have installed, at some point, a trial or a product preview, possibly for a CC product or possibly in conjunction with your mentioned phone test that is causing your issue.  Keep in mind too, when you install Lightroom 6, it does give you a free month of access to the Creative Cloud via Lightroom mobile. Is it possible that is where it came from?

Steve has given instructions for seeing if the Creative Cloud app is installed or not. If it is, you don't need it for Lightroom 6. If it is not, then you are likely seeing an artifact of the Lightroom free month trial. 

In any case, you can try these steps:
Follow the instructions for the Adobe Cleaner software located at this link: https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-cloud/kb/cc-cleaner-tool-installation-problems.html#topic-2

Then, after your system is clean, reinstall Lightroom Perpetual via the downloads shown here: 
http://www.adobe.com/downloads/other-downloads.html You will need to log into your Adobe ID to verify your serial number during installation but after that you don't need to log in again.

Let us know how everything works out for you. 
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Hi Steve and Rikk,

I have checked my account and as far as I can see, I have no Creative Cloud app or other CC products listed.  Also the "FREE" CC account is now gone as it is no longer free. 

As said earlier, I did not install anything to do with LRCC, ever, on either my home desktop or my Dell notebook.  So how did these get on my computers and what do they do?

Adobe CEF Helper.exe *32        69,364K
Adobe Desktop Services *32     39,776K
AdobeIPCBroker.exe *32             4,500K
AdobeupdateService *32             1,592K  (doesn't work anyways in LR6.5)
CCLibrary.exe *32                           660K
CCXProcess.exe *32                       564K

I have no idea.  I do know that I tried to get support from Adobe, then Laura Shoe and now Victoria.  This has been going on since LRCC rolled out.  The straw that brook my back was not being about to run (from inside LR6.5) the update to 6.5.1 to fix the Nikon Lens issue. If not for Laura Shoe I would not have been able to fix this introduces bug.

As an Adobe staff member, can you tell me how much testing is being on releases to LR6 as you dribble out minor updates mostly driven by screw ups in efforts to keep the same code for LR6 and LRCC alike?

Personally I don't think this is working well.  Perhaps you should make them two individual products.  Alternatively simple end LR6 and concede this market segment to other companies who will support the desktop only version.  Just a though as I can live with 6.5.1 and get new advancement from third parties.

Thanks for you kind attention to my rants and raves.  Cheers,

Doug

PS: Rikk can you provide me a contact email so I can keep in touch please?

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Have you tried the uninstall/reinstall steps we've suggested, or not?
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FWIW, sometimes I have to end-task on Adobe CEF Helper and at least one other CC process when I want to update because the CC Desktop app hangs before loading and checking for App Updates in the CC App doesn't do anything more than that until I shut things down.  Other times it works flawlessly.  I'm just impatient and want the update immediately. 

Also, FWIW, I have a process called Creative Cloud.exe that is actually the visible Adobe Creative Cloud-named application I can start from my Start menu and that sits in my system tray allowing me to launch the various apps and buy Adobe stock and other Cloud-specific functions.

I will say, again, that these processes you're concerned about aren't anything to be concerned about.  Their existence on your computer doesn't mean you have "Creative Cloud" on your computer through some surreptitious means because you installed CC on LR Mobile.  I'd guess they've always been on there and for some reason you decided to look and thought something was wrong.

Is there something "wrong" besides there are mystery processes and sometimes things don't work smoothly with updates?

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Hi All,

I have now completed the transfer of my LR6 and raw image files (2TB of images) to my NAS and confirmed that the images are identical on the backup.  I am off to the wilderness Thursday and I will be back the following week.  At that time I will follow through with the advice given and see what happens.  I will let you know how this works for me.   Thanks you All for the help.
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Doug Stead

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Hi Rick Flohr,

I have followed all your instructions and those provided at the URLs provided.

My desktop LR6 is now FUBAR!  I am unable to reinstall Lightroom Perpetual. (I am now associating perpetual as meaning pain of ownership.)

What was not mentioned in any instruction is that after uninstalling LR6 and running the CC-Cleaner program, you are also required reinstall the Adobe CC Application Manager, is this is needed to re-install the LR6 download file specified. 

So I reinstalled it, re downloaded both several times, and keep getting the "persistent problem" "UPDATE FAILED", together with the instruction to contact customer support. 

Of course brings me back to NO tech phone support for all second class users of Lightroom Perpetual. That is of course unless I pay an additional month ransom, for a product which is absolutely useless to me.  Leaving me with images to develop and having to work with a less powerful notebook.

HELP PLEASE

Tongue in cheek, being as Canadians aren't litigious, anyone know if you can get CrowdFunding for class action litigation? 

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Is there a complete error message you could quote or an error code?
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Doug Stead

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Hello Rikk,

The Adobe CC Application Manager provided no error code.  Only what I provided, a screen note saying "persistent problem update failed” followed by a recommendation to contact tech support or look for help in the community.

Sad don’t you think? Nothing personal Rikk.

For all others who find themselves needing to remove CC artifacts that should never been place onto their machines,  I spent last two days screwing around and finally found a workable solution.

1)       Go back and find in your download directory, your paid original LR6 install file and run/install it. 

2)      Run LR6.0, select check for updates, viola, and this original version will update correctly to LR6.5.1.

It is obvious to me that no one at Adobe is interested enough to even test updates issued for the users foundation of perpetual clients.  That Adobe even provides a Command Line program (CCCleaner) indicates a Band-Aid fix for a product which is being kept on life support.

In my opinion Adobe’s business practises express a fundamental lack of corporate morality and something more akin to that of the Payday loan industry.  Further I prognosticate LR6 Perpetual will survive only one more money/upgrade cycle to LR7.  After which it will be killed. A death of a thousand cuts in the form of consistence piss-poor product support which will drive users like me run as far and as fast as we can, to a more ethical providers of similar product. 

Ahem, Adobe The Infamous, Long Live LRCC.

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I have run into a problem with my solution to get ride of LRCC artificats.  I am up and running but the loading of LR65.1 and running it are slow.  WHat has happened is that I am not running the 32bit version instead of the 64bit version which I have been using since LR5.

Does anyone know who to installor change LR6.5.1 back to the 64bit version under Win7??

Thanks in advance.  Doug Stead
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LR 5 had both 32- and 64-bit versions, not LR 6/CC, only 64-bit, so what are you talking about?





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I feel the same.  I am not a 'techy' and have found no help for my problem.
Therefore, LR is unuseable.  When I contacted Adobe and they found out I was
not in the Cloud, I was told to go the Forums.  Even our IT support could not fix my
problem.  Now what do I do?
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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Tell us what's up Susan. What kind of problems are you having, and what are your system specs.
(Edited)
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Thanks Victoria!
Mar. 9th, was importing 2 photos and LR froze. Since then, it freezes on splash screen to the same import.  I am using LR 5.71 64 bit, Windows 7. 
Have deinstalled and reinstalled from on-line download.  However, I did not remove the LRcat or assoc. files.  Only did what I was prompted to do. 
The new version opened, then froze with the same 'import' images showing.
Don't really know where to go from here.
Nothing has helped. 
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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Ok, where were you importing from?  A  memory card?  Hard drive?
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Susan Stock

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Picture arrived by email. I have to save to my desk top and then open and then I was going to import it.  I spent all day on Friday, looking around on Forums and found something on .lock and journals.  Deleted most of old backups and related .lock and finally opened Lightroom.  Then tried to import a back up catalogue.  Worked for 10 minutes and then starting freezing again.  Each time, it is creating lock files.  Does that mean anything to you?  Do we know what causes this?
I am happy with my version of LR; and would be happy, as with Apple products, that once your warrantee is over, you have the option of paying for tech support. 
I am READY TO PAY!!!!!!
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Lock files are always created while LR's open, but should disappear when LR quits.  Never delete journals.

I would suggest starting with the standard troubleshooting steps: Standard Lightroom Troubleshooting Steps

And when you say "Worked for 10 minutes and then starting freezing again", what were you doing just before it started freezing again?
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Susan Stock

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I closed it down. Re-opened, without external hard drive on so it couldn't find the file, I thought that I had 'imported' the catalogue.  So I turned on hard drive and tried to reopen but it wouldn't.
JUST- copied the catalogue to desk top in a new folder.  Was prompted to save and test so I have.  It has opened!!!!!  I am going to close and go for lunch- will see if it still opens when I return! 
I will try launching from the icon on my desktop and not from the copied catalogue.
Wish me luck!
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From Doug

"I’m also 100% sure if I was a LRCC user I could talk with a support person.  "

.....................................................................................


I'd bet you are 100% wrong on that one!! ;)


Bob Frost 

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HI Bob,

My mistake then, if I understand you meaning as LRCC users are also treated with so little regard.   I assumed Adobe gave support to LRCC, because when found the Adobe Cloud stuff running on my computer, I phoned Adobe.

When I phone for support, I told them it was for a LRCC problem.  My call was put through and told the tech about the LRCC programs on my machine.  Silly me, I thought that I did have a LRCC problem... and was given the bums rush.