I'd love to get the ability to use 3D LUTs in Lightroom, now that those can be created in Photoshop cc 2014.
Posted 5 years ago
Why is there a need to start from a linear image?! Just because we need a standart, a convention to work with. We need a start point to which we calibreate out LUT so it will work every time with any camera in any image/ video editing software that support 3D LUT's and gives the same results. Just to see how a real linear image looks...
John R. Ellis, Champion
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YES go for LUT's in photoshop!
John R. Ellis, Champion
It's not clear from your comment -- you do know that Photoshop can both create LUTs and apply them? Whereas LR can create LUTs (using a plugin) but it can't apply them.
We would like to apply LUT in LR! :)
John R. Ellis, Champion
Agreed, that's what everyone in this topic clearly wants. I'm just clarifying Tomas' comment, both for his sake and that of future readers who come across this thread.
I'm another vote for implementing the application of LUTs in Lightroom not just in Photoshop. I use a Sony FS7 and Sony a6500 in my work, and I often use the a6500 to shoot family photos (and to keep working on learning to be fast with that camera...), and for both professional and personal use I would love to be able to apply a LUT to my S-Log2 and S-Log3 photos AND videos. Shooting test stills using the same 3D LUT that I plan to shoot in video would also be extremely helpful.
More and more cameras are coming out with the abiltiy to shoot in Log modes, both video and photos. I don't know, but I suspect that Lightroom is more in use by a wide spectrum of photographers and video/cinematographers, from amateur to pro, than Photoshop. As the new cameras come out (Sony alpha, Panasonic GH5, etc), don't cede the field to some rival to come along and make the intuitive interface photo editor/library application that can apply LUTs. That's what we expect Lr to do.
Come on, Adobe! This thread is THREE YEARS old!
More and more cameras are coming out with the abiltiy to shoot in Log modes, both video and photos. I don't know, but I suspect that Lightroom is more in use by a wide spectrum of photographers and video/cinematographers, from amateur to pro, than Photoshop. As the new cameras come out (Sony alpha, Panasonic GH5, etc), don't cede the field to some rival to come along and make the intuitive interface photo editor/library application that can apply LUTs. That's what we expect Lr to do.
Come on, Adobe! This thread is THREE YEARS old!
John R. Ellis, Champion
" would love to be able to apply a LUT to my S-Log2 and S-Log3 photos AND videos"
Can you say more about which LUTs you'd like to apply? Are they LUTs that convert the S-Log color space into the standard Rec 709 color space, LUTs that provide creative looks, or something else? (I'm exploring whether to add the ability to apply LUTs to my Export LUT plugin.)
Can you say more about which LUTs you'd like to apply? Are they LUTs that convert the S-Log color space into the standard Rec 709 color space, LUTs that provide creative looks, or something else? (I'm exploring whether to add the ability to apply LUTs to my Export LUT plugin.)
For me it would be any kind of LUT. In particular converting from log to rec709 is not my primary goal with photos. I would prefer artistic/creative LUTs.
By the way LUTs would not be so useful on export. They would be great inside LR. On export they are better then nothing :)
By the way LUTs would not be so useful on export. They would be great inside LR. On export they are better then nothing :)
John R. Ellis, Champion
"By the way LUTs would not be so useful on export."
The Export LUT plugin creates (exports) LUTs from LR develop settings and develop presets.
The Export LUT plugin creates (exports) LUTs from LR develop settings and develop presets.
Amen to LR adding LUTs to the workflow. It's understood the imagery has to be converted to linear via TIFF or JPG to apply a LUT, cannot be applied to RAW inside of LR, but never mind. The choice to apply a LUT in LR, whether to visualize what will show up downstream or to simply to apply some fix to photos made possible with LUTs, can be simulated in LR via proxies, which it already does (RAW files are unaffected), then implemented upon export in the conversion process. This only makes good sense to add to LR.
LUT shouldn't be applied to the RAW file. It should be applied as an optional step during the image processing . Even if LR processes the images as 16 bit ProPhoto RGB, LUT can be applied.
John R. Ellis, Champion
Alberto wrote, "Even if LR processes the images as 16 bit ProPhoto RGB, LUT can be applied."
If LR added a feature allowing LUTs to be applied, there's a color-space limitation that may reduce the usefulness of this feature.
Most LUTs people are interested in applying come from video color grading, and they typically operate on a different color space, most commonly Rec 709. To apply a LUT faithfully, preserving the exact color-to-color transformations, LR would need to implicitly convert a photo from LR's internal working space to Rec 709, apply the LUT, then convert back to the working space. The gamut of LR's working space is the same as ProPhoto RGB, which is significantly wider than that of Rec 709 (same as sRGB). So applying common video LUTs would necessarily narrow the gamut of many photos, especially raw photos.
This probably isn't an issue for people who want to use LR to process video stills or photos taken of the video scene to preview color grading of their video, since the video will be delivered in Rec 709. But it could be a noticeable limitation on those who want to apply video LUTs to their raw photos to get similar creative looks while preserving the wider gamut.
If LR added a feature allowing LUTs to be applied, there's a color-space limitation that may reduce the usefulness of this feature.
Most LUTs people are interested in applying come from video color grading, and they typically operate on a different color space, most commonly Rec 709. To apply a LUT faithfully, preserving the exact color-to-color transformations, LR would need to implicitly convert a photo from LR's internal working space to Rec 709, apply the LUT, then convert back to the working space. The gamut of LR's working space is the same as ProPhoto RGB, which is significantly wider than that of Rec 709 (same as sRGB). So applying common video LUTs would necessarily narrow the gamut of many photos, especially raw photos.
This probably isn't an issue for people who want to use LR to process video stills or photos taken of the video scene to preview color grading of their video, since the video will be delivered in Rec 709. But it could be a noticeable limitation on those who want to apply video LUTs to their raw photos to get similar creative looks while preserving the wider gamut.
Hi John,
My usage would be limited, but I have been in the situation, and have noticed peers in the industry have the need to precisely match stills to video for marketing/previs needs, and it follows that the stills shooter should be following the lead of the DIT in terms of grading, not the other way around. Being able to start with he same LUT seems like the most logical workflow for this.
LUTs also provide a more intricate color-grading profile than Lightroom allows sometimes... this particularly bugs me. Giving a more complex grading structure in Lightroom would solve a lot of this. Split toning allows for very basic looks, where a mid-tone option, or a color gradient option (in brush form as well!) would significantly increase the creative control of stylized shots without the need for complex files in photoshop.
Many of us end up having to degrade the color space in some way for end use of the files anyway.
Does that help?
My usage would be limited, but I have been in the situation, and have noticed peers in the industry have the need to precisely match stills to video for marketing/previs needs, and it follows that the stills shooter should be following the lead of the DIT in terms of grading, not the other way around. Being able to start with he same LUT seems like the most logical workflow for this.
LUTs also provide a more intricate color-grading profile than Lightroom allows sometimes... this particularly bugs me. Giving a more complex grading structure in Lightroom would solve a lot of this. Split toning allows for very basic looks, where a mid-tone option, or a color gradient option (in brush form as well!) would significantly increase the creative control of stylized shots without the need for complex files in photoshop.
Many of us end up having to degrade the color space in some way for end use of the files anyway.
Does that help?
John R. Ellis, Champion
Excellent, thanks. I'm looking into whether to add "Apply LUT" to my Export LUT plugin.
Me too
John R. Ellis, Champion
Iulian, can you give more detail about the reasons how and why you'd like to apply LUTs within LR? Such detail helps Adobe prioritize improvements. Does the fact that applying most LUTs would reduce the color gamut of raw photos affect your desire to have the feature?
Any color effect or Lightroom preset will reduce the color gamut of a raw photo. The goal is not to have the same gamut when creating a final image. It's to have a nice image.
LUTs are not all that different in concept than Lightroom presets. They are just a standard that can be used to get the same results across multiple applications and there are many resources for where to get them because they can be made in many ways.
LUTs are not all that different in concept than Lightroom presets. They are just a standard that can be used to get the same results across multiple applications and there are many resources for where to get them because they can be made in many ways.
John R. Ellis, Champion
"Any color effect or Lightroom preset will reduce the color gamut of a raw photo."
Many color adjustments you make in LR Develop will not change the gamut.
Many color adjustments you make in LR Develop will not change the gamut.
John R. Ellis, Champion
John R. Ellis, Champion
LR 7.3 and ACR 10.3 just added "enhanced profiles", which include the ability to specify a LUT to be used in the profile. This lets you apply LUTs in LR faster than using my Apply LUT plugin, without the need to create a TIFF for the result.
Unfortunately, there are two problems standing in the way:
1. You need to create the LUT profile in Photoshop / ACR, not LR.
2. ACR doesn't let you specify Rec 709 as the color space of the LUT. Rec 709 is the most common color space of LUTs used in video editing. When people say they "want to use LUTs", they're typically referring to all the widely used Rec 709 video-editing LUTs.
The former is an inconvenience, the latter is a roadblock. Please add your me-too vote to this feature request:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/camera-raw-add-rec-709-to-lut-color-spaces-in...
Unfortunately, there are two problems standing in the way:
1. You need to create the LUT profile in Photoshop / ACR, not LR.
2. ACR doesn't let you specify Rec 709 as the color space of the LUT. Rec 709 is the most common color space of LUTs used in video editing. When people say they "want to use LUTs", they're typically referring to all the widely used Rec 709 video-editing LUTs.
The former is an inconvenience, the latter is a roadblock. Please add your me-too vote to this feature request:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/camera-raw-add-rec-709-to-lut-color-spaces-in...
Should probably make a new topic for this and post it here?
John R. Ellis, Champion
I think you missed the link at the end of my last post.
Haha, my bad! I read it in my email and missed the link! *me-too'd
John R. Ellis, Champion
Unfortunately, it isn't possible for a LR plugin to make up for the missing ability to use Rec 709 LUTs, because Adobe hasn't documented the format of LUTs used in enhanced profiles. Please add your vote to this feature request:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/camera-raw-and-lightroom-document-the-format-...
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/camera-raw-and-lightroom-document-the-format-...
Yes they have, it's in the SDK Documentation. There's more info in the SDK as well as a sample LUT. It's an Iridas/Adobe Format Cube LUT with no blank lines in the header.
(Edited)
John R. Ellis, Champion
"Yes they have, it's in the SDK Documentation."
Adobe has documented the format of .cubes loaded into the New Profile window of Camera Raw, but they haven't documented the format of the LUT as it is actually stored in the .xmp file containing the enhanced profile. It is this latter format that's needed for plugins to be able to construct LUT-containing enhanced profiles from LUTs in color spaces like Rec 709 that Adobe has chosen not to provide. See the discussion in the other topic for more details:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/camera-raw-and-lightroom-document-the-format-...
Adobe has documented the format of .cubes loaded into the New Profile window of Camera Raw, but they haven't documented the format of the LUT as it is actually stored in the .xmp file containing the enhanced profile. It is this latter format that's needed for plugins to be able to construct LUT-containing enhanced profiles from LUTs in color spaces like Rec 709 that Adobe has chosen not to provide. See the discussion in the other topic for more details:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/camera-raw-and-lightroom-document-the-format-...
would love to see 3dlut cube files used with light room! please make it happen
John R. Ellis, Champion
It's now possible, if somehwat inconvenient, using the new enhanced profiles of LR and ACR. See this previous reply:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/id_love_to_get_the_ability_to_use_3d_luts_in_...
However, until Adobe fixes the omission of the Rec 709 color space, you might still have to use the Apply LUT plugin to use the most popular video color-grading LUTs.
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/id_love_to_get_the_ability_to_use_3d_luts_in_...
However, until Adobe fixes the omission of the Rec 709 color space, you might still have to use the Apply LUT plugin to use the most popular video color-grading LUTs.
Cole Mowery
Alberto Bedin