General Question to fellow sufferers re: FLOOD of issues w/ Photoshop, etc.

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General Question re: FLOOD of issues w/ Photoshop & related apps (CC, mobile) — Has Adobe acknowledged that deluge of problems w latest releases seem to indicate epic fail? And if they plan to release a Big Fix update (soon, please!) to address.
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lt cole

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Posted 4 weeks ago

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Bill

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As a user since Lightroom 2, I don't see any more failures with this release than any other. Some fixes, some new bugs and new features. I do vote for a bug only release but overall for my usage (heavy Develop module, light Library model), 9.3 is cleaner than any prior release. Still, with decades of software development behind me on large complex systems (10's of millions of lines of code) and while in many ways Lightroom is more complex; I don't view Lightroom has having an inordinate number of problems. 
 
There is no such thing as zero defects for any complex product, software or hardware. 
 
The biggest problem Adobe has is the need to support an unreal combination of platforms: OS, RAM, processor chips, storage, motherboards, video cards, monitors....
 
Just wait until Apple abandons Intel and Adobe must support 2 radically different processor and 3 operating system architectures. The bugs will go through the roof. My vote is that Adobe just abandon Apple.  
  
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John MacLean

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I agree with you Bill about the low amount of bugs. I’ve been a LR user from the beginning and an Apple user since ‘93. I just hope Adobe doesn’t abandon Apple, because I’m not willing to jump ship at this point.
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Andrew Rodney

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What flood of issues specifically with what product(s)? 
What is an epic fail is having this explained in an attempt to solve a possible issue or report actual bugs for fixing. 
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Dave Grainger

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Right on, Bill!
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lt cole

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Appreciate your thoughts and perspective, Bill. Add to your points the juggling act with mobile versions—I can’t imagine wrangling all that. AND a chip change.
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Dave Grainger

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My non-scientific observation is that the gripes reported here are more usually about Lightroom than Photoshop, and are more often user not knowing how to do things. I also think that we are only hearing from users with a problem and never from what I believe is the vast majority that do not have one or that were able to figure it out for themselves. With that said, I, too, have had to ask the near universe for help on some arcana  which I had not been able to get worked out myself.   When I was in business, I told my techs that I did not expect them to know all the answers, but I did want them to know how to find the answers.
(Edited)
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Dan Hartford Photo

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OP seemed to be referring to Photoshop but replies seem to be referring to LrC.  Is everyone on the same page?
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Dave Grainger

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He said "etc" and then implied that he was referring to entire suite, is the way I interpreted this...
(Edited)
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Dave Grainger

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In communications and teaching, there is what is referred to as "the presumed knowledge problem."

The difficulty is in knowing just what level of prior knowledge exists in any given audience, in order to be able to avoid presuming that the persons being addressed are neither lost due to insufficient background understanding nor offended for perceiving that the speaker is talking down to them.

This is especially hard when the audience is remote from view or of widely varied levels; much more so when the subject is very complex.

Reading posts in this forum, it appears that range of prior knowledge is very wide, from "just opened the book" beginner to seasoned expert, yet an objective here should be to help all. (In fact there is a new post today where the questioner has just purchased "Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom Classic CC Classroom in a Book (2019 release), 2nd Edition", authored by a well know author and Photoshop teacher. In this the OP states that she does not know how to "open the e-book and doesn't understand the lessons.")
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lt cole

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True. And thanks. With an expanding universe of products (s/w+) and revs, this a hugely diverse Family. I am glad to learn of experiences of minimal problems—have used PShop almost since inception and LR since it came out. I have found PShop workarounds rather more discoverable then LR historically—love them both. Well, when they flow. Definitely not abandoning the Adobesphere. Remains awesome.
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lt cole

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FULL DISCLOSURE
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Russell Cardwell

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I agree with Bill that this release has had relatively fewer issues than some of the previous ones. For my use, I have had zero issues (in the sense of bugs or problems) than with some previous versions.

I don't like the new icons—they look very amateurish. And for a company specializing in graphic products, that's not a good thing. And I do not like the redesign of ACR. It's probably a better design. It makes better use of screen real estate. And it more closely resembles the LR interface, making it easier for new users to understand. But I'm used to the old interface. I was using it before LR came along, and I instinctively know where things are supposed to be. Opening ACR now gives me the same feeling as when, in the middle of cooking an omelet, you open the drawer to grab the spatula, and it's not there. I'll get used to it eventually.

As far as supporting Apple products goes. I can't see that changing any time soon. I started listing all the times since the 80s that Apple made some change that people freaked out about, only to have the whole industry follow within a year or two. But it was almost endless.

The TL:DR version is what Apple is doing now, the others will be doing before long. RISC is 60s technology. The CPUs in Mac and Windows computers are crippled by the outdated tech. ARM is much faster, more powerful, and more efficient.

And Adobe has already been coding for ARM processors for a long time. Apple has been using ARM processors since 2007. Their Apple Silicon chips have been in all of Apple's products except Macs for 13 years. And Adobe has been coding for them all along. I had Adobe apps on my first iPad in 2010, which had an Apple A4 (an ARM processor). So it's not a sudden shift; it's been a long gradual development.

I welcome the change. When I need to edit 4k video, I prefer to do it on my iPad Pro, especially if it needs stabilization. It's faster and quieter. No fan required.

So coding for Apple Silicon is nothing new to Adobe.
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William Chitham

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Bugs are bugs and are there by accident not design. I think the far more important issue is interface design. There needs to be a really good reason to make drastic changes to an interface that many people are accustomed to and make a living with. Changing ACR to make life easier for someone who uses LR would only make sense if ACR was an unpopular app in competition with LR. Since they have different functions and are both owned by Adobe that isn't the case so why annoy ACR users? You might just as well redesign LR to make life easier for ACR users (like me - I had to use LR for the first time seriously last year and hated it). Anyway, never mind the overall interface design, what baffles me is why Adobe can't at least give us the option of harmonising keyboard shortcuts across the suite. I guess we all start with one app that becomes the dominant one be it LR, or PS or InDesign or whatever, and then find it a nightmare when habitual keyboard shortcuts have entirely unintended effects when we venture out into the another part of the suite.
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Warren Heaton

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If you're having trouble with Photoshop, be sure to go through these steps:
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/basic-troubleshooting.html

Is there a flood of issues?  Other than feature changes that I'd prefer have remained the same (Free Transform, Camera RAW user interface), I'm not sure PS 21.2.0 is any more or less quirky than PS 2.5.
As far as the other applications are concerned, considering that each application is developed by a different team at a different location - often on a different part of the globe - I think we have pretty good integration.  Sure, there's room for improvement, but isn't that what this Photoshop site is for in the 1st place?
(Edited)
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Robben

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I'll be the odd one out and agree with the huge flood of bugs...
v21.1.2 seems to be fine though, making me afraid to update.
A few of the versions  before mine seemed a flood of bugs for like 5 months on end... If you didn't experience them you must be a very simple user, and that is ok. To me, following these pages, it seemed like half the code was lost and they had to rebuild from scratch...
During a few weeks I dug into making more actions, I found like 5 longstanding bugs in actions alone...
I remember the old days when I wasn't aware of *any* bug in PS! (wasn't a power user either back then, and still...) Now it's truly a flood IMO, and there may well be hundreds.
Yet, I'm happy I'm not experiencing too many important ones in v21.1.2 — I guess that's also a miracle :)
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Andrew Rodney

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WHAT huge flood of bugs? Be specific.
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Dave Grainger

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An analogy: in China, there are huge floods right now. My next door neighbor came running over yesterday, here in Washington, freaked out about a "huge flood" in their basement, where the washing machine's cold water input hose had leaked.

It is not the amount of water that matters, it is the water rising over one's toes.
(Edited)
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Robben

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(About being specific: You are consistently unable to use the correct comment item — twice in this thread alone.)

Undoubtedly, you'd like to debunk the majority as user error, computer issue, etc. — and you would probably be right and helpful proving that. Yet, IMO the best answer remains to follow these pages (as you seem to do) and notice how often a bug *is* Officially Confirmed — and IMO, that has been a LOT.
Sure, you may have insider info and know it's only 300 bugs and not 1,000? ;)

Shortly after my first comment here, I did two full days of PS, doing some stuff I don't normally touch as much. I've found at least 10 things that seemed either bugs or bugged me enough to be called a bug. Sometimes it is too weird to spend time hoping to repeat it, then never see it fixed...

WHERE have I reported bugs in the past? A few examples...
[I've only retested on v21.1.2]

- Still staring many in the face, an IMO age-old bug hidden in plain sight (on most YouTube tuts and on a screen in your home...)  It is not even acknowledged?!
  https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/ps-2020-old-layer-icon-bug-why-sometimes-gene...

- Actions bug. Acknowledged, still not fixed.
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/ps-2020-action-bugs-moving-mask-leaves-copy

- Actions bug. Acknowledged, still not fixed.
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/ps-2020-recorded-action-doesnt-play-back

One other seems fixed; another was deemed normal behavior. FIne, most of these have workarounds.

Some bummers that I *consider* bugs ...

- Layer comp doesn’t record mask density  http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/layer-comp-doesnt-record-mask-density?topic-re...

- I also noticed Fit on Screen doesn't work for me inside 2-up/3-up windows, yet the command is not grayed out... Sucks if you wanna automate a way to quickly keep comparing with the full picture, and may (again) need scripting (or enlarging the canvas).

- I've had one jpg surprisingly open into ACR (smallish size, not a misnamed raw file). Can this be caused by a tag in it? If not, I could send a tech that file.

There are "a lot" of these age-old debilitating and unclever features if we would all gather them...  Yet, we survive... for now ;)

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Andrew Rodney

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- I've had one jpg surprisingly open into ACR (smallish size, not a misnamed raw file). Can this be caused by a tag in it? 

Yes, if you have the preferences so set and it was edited in either ACR or LR, it will open again in ACR. 
FWIW, you can also force the issue otherwise if you open such a file AS Format/Camera Raw in the open dialog Dropdown.
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Dave Grainger

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I wonder, how many users of Photoshop and Lightroom there are compared to how many post on this forum?
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Dan Hartford Photo

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I can't speak about Photoshop as I rarely use it and don't subscribe to the Photoshop forums but for LR,  9.2 and 9.3 seem to be cleaner than most other recent releases - at least in terms of the number of issues reported in the forums.
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Nicole

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Photoshop 2020 has been a flood of issues, whether bugs or bad interface and usability decisions. Completely agree with OP. I've been using PS professionally for almost a decade now and privately for longer and I've never seen a release come even close to 2020 for awful useability problems, crashes, weird glitches, and updates that break as many things as they fix. Something for instance seems to constantly be wrong with the new compositing but the usual workaround of legacy compositing broke an update or two ago. It's insanely frustrating.

The issues seem to be affecting artists more than photographers. Lightroom seems stable and most of the people I've seen abandoning their subscriptions for other software have been painters and artists.
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Andrew Rodney

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Again, can you tell me what the flood of issues are? 
I've been using PS for three decades, it's never been bug free. But bugs can be reported, reproduced and fixed. I'm waiting on specifics so if they are repeatable and verifiable bugs, they can be reported. 
No analogies, actual reports:
1. Click on X
2. Result is Y
3. Expected result is Z
4. Specific system is ..... 
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Nicole

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These reports have been elsewhere on this forum and in the community forums on adobe site. I've made a detailed one and have "me too'd" several. I was just replying to second op opinion since he was being shot down by Lightroom users who aren't experiencing them.
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Andrew Rodney

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Where?
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Warren Heaton

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Maybe this will help answer this question/address this comment.

Here are the known issues in Photoshop:
https://helpx.adobe.com/ca/photoshop/kb/known-issues.html

Here are the known issues and workarounds in Lightroom:
https://helpx.adobe.com/ca/lightroom-cc/kb/known-issues.html

Here are the issues specific to Photoshop and macOS Catalina:
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/photoshop-and-macos-catalina.html

Sure, maybe there are enough to call it a "flood".  I'm not sure it's longer or shorter than usual, but it is specific.

If you're having an issue and it's not on one of those lists, you want to report it (being as detailed as possible) as well as go through the following "Basic troubleshooting steps to fix most issues":
https://helpx.adobe.com/be_en/photoshop/kb/basic-troubleshooting.html



-Warren

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Dave Grainger

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For some people, during this time of shut in, complaining is the only form of recreation that they have... 
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Robben

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And you are generously leading the pack doing exactly that on this page... In the mean time, I rapported another bug.
(Edited)
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Dave Grainger

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???
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Dave Grainger

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REported, not RApported,BTW...