Lightroom/Camera Raw: Fuji GFX Raw File White Balance Issues - Magenta Tint

  • 1
  • Problem
  • Updated 2 weeks ago
  • In Progress
  • (Edited)
When importing Fuji GFX RAW files into PS/LR, using ACR, the ACR 'as shot' WB shows a significant +CC offset, and a -K offset, and is not in line with the K or CC values in-camera. This results in an image which is cooler than shot, with a magenta color cast. This is prevalent across the GFX50S and GFX50R, and appears to be an issue with the way ACR is interpreting the WB metadata in the Fuji RAW file.
Photo of Chris Dodkin

Chris Dodkin

  • 25 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
  • Frustrated

Posted 1 month ago

  • 1
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1383 Posts
  • 455 Reply Likes
I downloaded a Fuji GFX 50S RAF file with calibration chart and it has no WB tint with LR set to 'As Shot.' The colorchecker patches are neutral. The actual WB values will be slightly different due to how Adobe interprets the camera's values, but the onscreen image should be correct.

What do you see with the below RAF file?

https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/fuji-gfx/GFXhSLI000100NR1.RAF.HTM



Photo of Chris Dodkin

Chris Dodkin

  • 25 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
I'm using the full resolution JPEG generated in camera, not the lower resolution embedded JPEG.

When I compare in-camera to ACR, the ACR files requires C2 more magenta correction, based on sampling the white area of the test card on both images.

RAW Conversion


In-Camera JPEG
Photo of Chris Dodkin

Chris Dodkin

  • 25 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Here's a good example where I'm having to shoot RAW + JPEG in order to do the in-camera pano crop. You can see the ACR version has more magenta, neutrals like the sidewalk go magenta in color for example.

Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1383 Posts
  • 455 Reply Likes
I'm only seeing a 1 unit Tint or Temp difference between your raw and in-camera JPEG, but even the 2 unit difference in your screenshot is very small. I know you mentioned that this is happening with all Adobe camera profiles, but it's important that we compare the same in-camera to ACR settings. To do that you need to set the camera to Adobe RGB and Provia/Standard so that the JPEG has these settings applied to it. We can then set the raw file to Provia Standard camera profile to match the JPEG in-camera rendering. That's what I did in my screenshot showing the Embedded Preview, RAF file, and JPEG export of the RAF file. In my composite shot there is 0 difference in Temp and Tint.

The larger WB differences in the 2nd picture of the motel may be due to other in-camera settings. Many in-camera settings are not read or applied inside ACR/LR, which can cause significant difference in the raw rendering compared to the in-camera JPEG file. These raw to JPEG differences can also be caused by an incompatible monitor profile.

Given these small differences the best way to determine what's happening is to do a controlled test shot of the ColorChecker Grayscale card. Set the camera for Adobe RGB, Provia/Standard picture, Highest Quality Full-Size JPEG, and all other picture style controls set to 0 or OFF. This will most closely match the RAF file rendering inside ACR/LR when it is set to Provia/Standard camera profile. It would also help to set the camera's WB as close as possible to the actual lighting condition. Then post the raw+JPEG file pair to Dropbox for comparison. This will help us both to determine what's wrong and get it "fixed." Thank you!
(Edited)
Photo of Chris Dodkin

Chris Dodkin

  • 25 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
I never shoot Adobe RGB for work, only sRGB. So I'm not interested in doing AdobeRGB based comparisons. This may be a specific sRGB issue, so I'm not interested in making the issue 'go away' at the expense of using a different color space.

There were no other camera settings applied to the motel image, no custom WB or tint adjustments. No custom settings to the JPEG, as I never use them. The only reason one exists with the Motel shot is that the camera insists on generating JPEGs with the RAW file when you're shooting a cropped camera view. 

It's interesting that you keep using embedded JPEGs, and see nothing, where as I use the camera generated full resolution JPEG and see differences, and they are always skewed the same way. Small differences are important, minimizing them is not helpful.

I have a fully calibrated monitor, and it get's recalibrated monthly, so I don't believe your monitor profile theory holds water. I see the effect across multiple computers and screen btw.
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1383 Posts
  • 455 Reply Likes
I never shoot Adobe RGB for work, only sRGB. So I'm not interested in doing AdobeRGB based comparisons. This may be a specific sRGB issue, so I'm not interested in making the issue 'go away' at the expense of using a different color space.
Just keep in mind when comparing ACR RAF renderings it uses ProPhoto RGB. If a specific area of the image falls outside of sRGB gamut it will look different in the sRGB  JEPG. For the CC Graycard shot using sRGB is OK as long as the WB is set correctly in-camera.

There were no other camera settings applied to the motel image, no custom WB or tint adjustments. No custom settings to the JPEG, as I never use them. The only reason one exists with the Motel shot is that the camera insists on generating JPEGs with the RAW file when you're shooting a cropped camera view.
I believe what you're saying and you should post that raw+JPEG pair as well for examination. Was this an in-camera crop setting or still shot taken with the camera in video mode? It may be an entirely separate issue.

It's interesting that you keep using embedded JPEGs, and see nothing, where as I use the camera generated full resolution JPEG and see differences, and they are always skewed the same way. Small differences are important, minimizing them is not helpful.
Currently the embedded preview is all I have to compare! There may be something different about the camera embedded preview, which is why I am requesting you shoot the controlled raw+JPEG test shot.


I have a fully calibrated monitor, and it get's recalibrated monthly, so I don't believe your monitor profile theory holds water. I see the effect across multiple computers and screen btw.
Chris why so defensive. I said "it can also be caused by an incompatible monitor profile," which is not a theory. Troubleshooting is a process of elimination. I didn't say that was  the cause here, which remains undetermined. The fact that you see the same issue across multiple computers indicates it's probably not the cause.
Photo of Rikk Flohr

Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

  • 5359 Posts
  • 1115 Reply Likes
Greetings Chris, 

Would you be willing to share a file with us Preferebly Raw + JPEG so that I can attach it to the bug report?

FYI, I will be cross-referencing your DP Review Thread as well. 
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1383 Posts
  • 455 Reply Likes
Thanks Rikk!
Photo of Chris Dodkin

Chris Dodkin

  • 25 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Hey Rikk - many thanks for taking interest in this one.

RAW + JPEG here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jp1sdcfwfjj6bhc/AAAmREz8Z22IcroFnp3VFBF6a?dl=0

This is a Fuji GFX in camera aspect ration crop, so you'll need JPEG and RAW in the same folder for ACR to see the JPEG crop and apply it to the RAW file.

Let me know any questions you have - and FWIW this issue appears to extend to other Fuji X Series models as well, so may not be GFX specific.

(Edited)
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1360 Posts
  • 445 Reply Likes
Chris, I can easily see the WB difference between this JPEG and RAF file pair. Thinking about this it may have something to do with the in-camera crop setting. You mentioned that when a crop is set the camera creates both an RAF file and a JPEG, even when the camera is set to raw only. Perhaps the JPEG created with in-camera crop is applying WB differently.

Here's a GFX 50R raw+JPEG file pair from Imaging Resources. With the As Shot WB and camera profile Provia/Standard applied the WB in the ColorChecker is correct and the same in both the RAF and JPEG file. The only difference here is that an in-camera crop hasn't been applied. There may be some other in-camera settings as well, but I haven't examined them. The color rendering is also near identical with some slight differences in saturation.

Plese let me know if you're seeing something different when viewed on your system with the As Shot WB and camera profile Provia/Standard settings in ACR.


GFXRhSLI000100NR1.JPG
GFXRhSLI000100NR1.RAF
Photo of Chris Dodkin

Chris Dodkin

  • 25 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Todd - appreciate you trying to help, but you keep going off track, and confusing the issue. Please leave this to Rikk and the team. Thx.
Photo of Todd Shaner

Todd Shaner, Champion

  • 1360 Posts
  • 445 Reply Likes
Just checked the EXIF data and the only settings difference I can see is that your file has a White Balance Fine Tune setting and all of the other files without he issue are set to 0, 0.

It's possible the in-camera 'As Shot' WB value isn't being calculated correctly using the 'Fine Tune' values, but is being applied properly to the rendered image data in camera JPEG file.

You can test this by shooting raw+JPEG under the same lighting conditions with the camera's White Balance Fine Tune set to 0, 0 and then a 2nd shot with the below Red -20, Blue +0 settings. Make sure to apply the same in-camera Film Mode setting in ACR's Profile setting. If the raw and JPEG file WB matches in the 0, 0 shot and are different in the -20, 0 shots then that explains what's happening.

DSCF4094.RAF
White Balance Fine Tune:Red -20, Blue +0

GFXRhSLI000100NR1.RAF
White Balance Fine Tune:Red +0, Blue +0

NOTE: I'm still seeing a WB difference between Lightroom Classic 8.2.1 Library and Develop modules with just a Standard Preview built. Once a 1:1 Preview is built the Library module preview matches the Develop module and the rendering in ACR. Why just the Fuji GFX files exhibit this is a mystery. However, it's a separate issue specific to Lightroom that Adobe Engineering needs to investigate.

Lightroom Classic 8.2.1 Library module

    STANDARD PREVIEW BUILT                   1:1 PREVIEW BUILT


Photo of Rikk Flohr

Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

  • 5359 Posts
  • 1115 Reply Likes
I've got them attached to the bug. I won't be responding to the DP Review thread - Can you let them know we are looking into it?
Photo of Chris Dodkin

Chris Dodkin

  • 25 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Yes - that thread is full to the 150 post limit, so I'll start a new one.
Photo of Chris Dodkin

Chris Dodkin

  • 25 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Done
Photo of Chris Dodkin

Chris Dodkin

  • 25 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Rikk - I'm seeing the same behavior if I shoot in 'Daylight' WB set in-camera. When that RAW file is imported into ACR it ends up cooler and with too much magenta every time.

Adobe ACR shows 4650 K +17CC if I set the WB in-camera to Daylight

Adobe ACR shows 5500 K +10CC if I set the WB in ACR to Daylight

The images are visually different, with a cool magenta color cast on the image where daylight WB is set in-camera.

So the WB tags from the camera are either wrong, or the WB tags are being incorrectly mapped in ACR. 

Either way it's a big issue.

Photo of Rikk Flohr

Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

  • 5359 Posts
  • 1115 Reply Likes
Thank you for the updated information. I will pass it along. 
Photo of Chris Dodkin

Chris Dodkin

  • 25 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Rikk - any updates from Adobe?