They
used to be sorted alphabetically. In version 7.3 the order is random
used to be sorted alphabetically. In version 7.3 the order is random
Posted 11 months ago
I guess this sums up how well the sorting of presets works :)
Also, not sure if this has been reported, but if you create a new preset in folder A, then move it in Lightroom to folder B (drag & drop), it stays in folder A when you check the file location in file explorer...
I have updated to LR 7.3.1 running on a Win 7 Professional 64bit OS based machine. My 'Presets' are stock--I have made no changes. They are displayed as follows:
Is this what the panel is supposed to look like? I doesn't appear to be alphabetically sorted to me.
Is this what the panel is supposed to look like? I doesn't appear to be alphabetically sorted to me.
(Edited)
Johan Elzenga, Champion
Yes, consider them as grouped:
1: Adobe general presets
2: Adobe effects presets
3: Adobe Classic presets
4: Custom presets
Inside each group everything sorts as expected. When you specify some presets as 'favorite', you will see that the Favorites group comes all the way at the top.
1: Adobe general presets
2: Adobe effects presets
3: Adobe Classic presets
4: Custom presets
Inside each group everything sorts as expected. When you specify some presets as 'favorite', you will see that the Favorites group comes all the way at the top.
(Edited)
Well, looking inside this is what I see:
Doesn't look like it's alphabetical to me
Doesn't look like it's alphabetical to me
(Edited)
Johan Elzenga, Champion
Presets sort by an internal field. So whether or not the Adobe presets sort alphabetically is (probably) by design. But your own custom presets should sort correctly now.
OK, I'll take your word for it. If that's the case it is certainly confusing and somewhat illogical. No wonder the sorting of 'Presets' has raised so many questions lately.
Thanks for your comments on my questions.
Thanks for your comments on my questions.
John R. Ellis, Champion
I just released the free Fix Presets plugin that corrects the ordering bug with a click of a button. You may need to invoke the plugin whenever you rename presets, change their groups (folders), or import new ones from earlier versions of LR.
The plugin also provides workarounds for a number of other develop preset issues.
The plugin also provides workarounds for a number of other develop preset issues.
Todd Shaner, Champion
John, thanks for creating this plugin. My User Develop presets are a mess so I'd like to give it a try. Exactly what does it do and how will this affect future LR updates that correct the sort order?
John R. Ellis, Champion
The new preset format in .xmp files has a SortName field that is used for sorting the presets. Camera Raw consistently sets SortName, but some operations in LR set SotName, some leave it empty (freshman programming). The Fix Ordering button of Fix Presets sets the field to a version of the Name field, so that all the presets sort consistently.
FIx Presets will replace numbers embedded in the name with zero-padded numbers, to achieve the proper numeric sorting that was present in LR 7.2 and earlier and is still used in the Collections and Folders panels. For example, collections with leading numbers in their names will sort "1 C", "3 C", "20 C". Given a preset name "23 - 5 Orange", Fix Presets will give it the SortName "000023 - 000005 Orange", to achieve the proper sorting. (Internally, LR has a sort function that does this hybrid numeric sorting, but the programmer forgot to use it in the new Presets panel.)
If/when a future release of LR fixes the issue, presets that have been corrected by Fix Prests will continue to work and sort properly. (The internal LR numeric sorting treats a leading "000023" in the name the same as "23".)
FIx Presets will replace numbers embedded in the name with zero-padded numbers, to achieve the proper numeric sorting that was present in LR 7.2 and earlier and is still used in the Collections and Folders panels. For example, collections with leading numbers in their names will sort "1 C", "3 C", "20 C". Given a preset name "23 - 5 Orange", Fix Presets will give it the SortName "000023 - 000005 Orange", to achieve the proper sorting. (Internally, LR has a sort function that does this hybrid numeric sorting, but the programmer forgot to use it in the new Presets panel.)
If/when a future release of LR fixes the issue, presets that have been corrected by Fix Prests will continue to work and sort properly. (The internal LR numeric sorting treats a leading "000023" in the name the same as "23".)
Todd Shaner, Champion
Sounds good I'll give it try and report back.
John R. Ellis, Champion
The Restore Original command will restore your original preset .xmp files if you don't like the results.
Todd Shaner, Champion
I just tried the 'Fix Ordering' function and I'm getting the below error message on every preset. There also doesn't appear to be a way to cancel the operation and I've got a lot of presets. Any ideas?
John R. Ellis, Champion
Re canceling, the modal progress bar has a Cancel button, but perhaps LR isn't giving you a chance to click it when the error dialog keeps popping up in your face.
Please contact me by email at the support address on the plugin's web page. Based on that error message, something obviously unexpected is happening with your preset folder.
Please contact me by email at the support address on the plugin's web page. Based on that error message, something obviously unexpected is happening with your preset folder.
Todd Shaner, Champion
Thanks just sent you an email.
John R. Ellis, Champion
The Fix Presets plugin was tripping over another intermittent LR 7.3 SDK bug with presets:
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-sdk-preset-getfile-incorrectly-retu...
I released a new version that works around it.
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-sdk-preset-getfile-incorrectly-retu...
I released a new version that works around it.
Todd Shaner, Champion
Thank you John. The updated 'Fix Preset' v1.3 plugin works like charm! I haven't used the other features yet, but they will come in handy. Your due diligence is most appreciated!
Thank you John.It works, but I can't rename any preset because doing this all the presets in that specific folder go back to the original wrong alphabetic order.Did you noticed this before?
John R. Ellis, Champion
You need to re-run the Fix Ordering command every time you rename a preset. (LR's rename operation "forgets" to set the internal SortName field of the preset.) I'll make this clearer in user interface and the documentation.
Johan Elzenga, Champion
Nice that you added the adjustment brush to the preset options. You could probably do the same with the spot healing brush too.
John R. Ellis, Champion
Good suggestion, I'll add Spot Removal to the plugin.
John R. Ellis, Champion
Unfortunately, LR 7.3.1 doesn't recognize the spot-removal settings in preset .xmp files.
I have the same problem, the sorting is not working correctly...
You were "investigating" this a month ago. How's that coming? And why did you mess with something that worked perfectly well in the first place?
John R. Ellis, Champion
"Why did you mess with something that worked perfectly well in the first place?"
Adobe changed the internal implementation of presets considerably, to allow them to be shared with Camera Raw and as part of the new "enhanced profiles", which provide users with a number of new features and advantages.
Unfortunately, Adobe completely botched the testing (quality assurance) and released these worthwhile changes with lots of obvious bugs.
Adobe changed the internal implementation of presets considerably, to allow them to be shared with Camera Raw and as part of the new "enhanced profiles", which provide users with a number of new features and advantages.
Unfortunately, Adobe completely botched the testing (quality assurance) and released these worthwhile changes with lots of obvious bugs.
Rikk Flohr, Official Rep
Lightroom Classic CC 7.4 was released with some preset/profile management features. After installing, if you are still seeing preset sorting issues related to alphabetization, please let us know.
Are you seriously calling the new "manage presets" window a fix ?!
As a developer myself I would be ashamed to offer something like that to my clients.
As a developer myself I would be ashamed to offer something like that to my clients.
John R. Ellis, Champion
Grégory, this topic is concerned with the incorrect sorting of presets introduced in 7.3. The Manage window doesn't have anything to do with that bug. My testing shows that 7.4 correctly sorts presets -- do you experience incorrect sorting?
Rikk Flohr, Official Rep
Grégory,
This thread contains users who might benefit from the Manage window. That is additional information for users who rely on managing and organizing their presets.
This thread contains users who might benefit from the Manage window. That is additional information for users who rely on managing and organizing their presets.
No, it is still not possible to sort presets.
John R. Ellis, Champion
Please post a screenshot of what you're seeing.
Johan Elzenga, Champion
Presets should sort alphabetically. You cannot choose another kind of sort yourself.
Grégory, you have registered your complaint. Now, as a developer could you offer your clear advice on what you'd consider to an acceptable implementation that would meet your needs and expectations.
Nothing more than a consistent folder system (we can consider preset groups are folders) so you can delete/rename/create folders independently from their content, and all actions accessible *at the same place* (right now new=create new preset to create parent group (!), rename=right click, hide=manage window, unhide=manage or right click).
Concerning sort, alphabetical order is fine as long as *all* groups are sorted even the default ones. If you can't do that, instead allow custom sort.
Concerning sort, alphabetical order is fine as long as *all* groups are sorted even the default ones. If you can't do that, instead allow custom sort.
This should be very helpful to Adobe as they continue to evolve LR Classic CC going forward. They seem like reasonable and useful features.
I still have Presets scrambled all over the place. I now have went back AGAIN to the version that works. When is this getting fixed please!!!! (June 24th)
I am sticking with 7.2 until this situation is resolved.
Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion
> I still have Presets scrambled all over the place.
Can you give examples Christine? Screenshots would be ideal. They've fixed the obvious issues, but there clearly could still be some outlying situations they haven't caught yet.
Can you give examples Christine? Screenshots would be ideal. They've fixed the obvious issues, but there clearly could still be some outlying situations they haven't caught yet.
It's not clear to me if this issue is fixed or not. Many of the presets are not in alphabetical order but I'm not sure if they were designed to be so ordered. See the following post from about three months ago by Nathan Johnson:
Inside an .lrtemplate file, there are two name properties... "internalName" and "title"... when you initially create a preset file, they are both the same. But it is possible for the "title" to become different than the "internalName" (especially for preset developers who are editing .lrtemplate files directly).
Example of .lrtemplate file:
So here, I must have changed the title directly in a text editor.
In any case, this didn't matter, because ALL PREVIOUS VERSIONS OF LIGHTROOM only looked at the "title" property to determine how to sort presets.
Enter LR Classic 7.3 and the .xmp conversion...
XMP also has a number of properties related to the name of the preset. The "Name" property is the displayed name...
BUT... XMP has a "SortName" property. And this property determines how Lightroom actually sorts the presets.
When LR 7.3 converted .lrtemplate files to .xmp files, it took the "internalName" and placed it in the "SortName" property...
Example...
AND unlike all previous lightroom versions, the .xmp presets actually do get sorted by the sortName property...
So now, inside Lightroom Classic, you see presets that are mostly sorted, but with seemingly random deviations from that sorting...
All that to say, I wish that Adobe hadn't assumed that we wanted the internalName to now be used a sorting device (which it never had been before). But I don't think it is cool that now we have the ability to do custom orders without changing the display name!
Now... I've got a lot of presets to update..."
Here is a sample of what I am seeing in LR CC 7.4 after updating.
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Inside an .lrtemplate file, there are two name properties... "internalName" and "title"... when you initially create a preset file, they are both the same. But it is possible for the "title" to become different than the "internalName" (especially for preset developers who are editing .lrtemplate files directly).
Example of .lrtemplate file:
So here, I must have changed the title directly in a text editor.
In any case, this didn't matter, because ALL PREVIOUS VERSIONS OF LIGHTROOM only looked at the "title" property to determine how to sort presets.
Enter LR Classic 7.3 and the .xmp conversion...
XMP also has a number of properties related to the name of the preset. The "Name" property is the displayed name...
BUT... XMP has a "SortName" property. And this property determines how Lightroom actually sorts the presets.
When LR 7.3 converted .lrtemplate files to .xmp files, it took the "internalName" and placed it in the "SortName" property...
Example...
AND unlike all previous lightroom versions, the .xmp presets actually do get sorted by the sortName property...
So now, inside Lightroom Classic, you see presets that are mostly sorted, but with seemingly random deviations from that sorting...
All that to say, I wish that Adobe hadn't assumed that we wanted the internalName to now be used a sorting device (which it never had been before). But I don't think it is cool that now we have the ability to do custom orders without changing the display name!
Now... I've got a lot of presets to update..."
Here is a sample of what I am seeing in LR CC 7.4 after updating.
I hope Adobe just fixes what they broke in the name of "improvements".
It is well past the time to stop introducing new "features & enhancements" and just fix the software.
It is well past the time to stop introducing new "features & enhancements" and just fix the software.
Todd Shaner, Champion
New Develop presets I create with LR 7.4 are out of sort order. It looks like they are being placed near the bottom of the folder list. I just created two presets shown below inside the red outline. I used John Ellis' 'Fix Presets' plugin with 7.3, which fixed the preset sort order. It's my understanding with LR 7.4 this plugin shouldn't be needed.
Rikk Flohr, Official Rep
The Lightroom Classic CC team is aware that there are still some sorting issues and are working through it for the next release. We appreciate your patience.
Todd Shaner, Champion
Rikk, I'm still seeing this issue in LR 8.0 when creating new presets. They
appear at the bottom of the list. When can we expect an update to
correct this issue?
Rikk Flohr, Official Rep
Have you reviewed the steps here, Todd: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/develop-presets-incorrect-sorting.html ?
Todd Shaner, Champion
I'm using John Eliis' Fix Presets plugin, which is quick, easy to use, and free. Renaming presets after creating them seems like a kludge. Status still shows as 'In Progress' so I assume this will be fixed correct?
John R. Ellis, Champion
As a workaround while awaiting a fix, the free Fix Presets plugin will correct the sorting of your presets.
Todd Shaner, Champion
Thanks John. I downloaded the latest v1.6 Fix Presets plugin update, which corrected the above mentioned "new preset" sort order. This should work for others with similar preset sorting issues.
