Lightroom Classic 7.3: Develop presets not sorting correctly

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  • Problem
  • Updated 5 months ago
  • In Progress
  • (Edited)
They used to be sorted alphabetically. In version 7.3 the order is random
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Winston Mitchell

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Posted 1 year ago

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Johan Elzenga, Champion

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Yes, this is an old problem with MacOS X High Sierra, which unfortunately has returned. Adobe is aware of it and working on a fix.
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Seth Carnill

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I have the problem on both MAC OS X Sierra and El Capitan
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Nathan Johnson

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Hi Johan, see my response below. Not a problem with High Sierra... problem is with .lrtemplate to .xmp conversion.
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Hi John, I referenced this in your PR bug. Thanks.
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Stefan Marte

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Also, why are the default folders always stuck on the top? This is highly annoying, even with the favourites thing. It's getting in the way of my workflow.
Also, why is there no way to rename a folder, or delete it. Auto-Delete when empty is a bit silly, and breaks fodler creation right now.

The new update is awesome, but your changes to the preset interface are just no good.
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Art Davis

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I agree with Stefan.  The inability to reorder to suit the User's preference is highly frustrating and impacts my workflow.  I believe this should be fixed as high priority matter.  (FYI: I'm on a Windows 10 system.)
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Ed Rudolph

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I also have the sorting issue using Mac OS 10.12.6
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Hugo Lopez

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Same here.
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Cameron Braun

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Renaming every preset in a given group and then returning them to their original name will fix the sorting, although this is not ideal for those of us with hundreds of presets.
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Johan Elzenga, Champion

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But are they still sorted after a restart? This is an older bug that returned, and with the old bug you could force a correct sort order by adding a new presets. But after a restart the sort order was once again broken. I'm typing this on my iPad, so I can't check it myself.
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Andy Hasak

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Renaming presets doesn't move them in the sorting order for me. They simply remain sorted in the same (unorganized) place. Windows 10.
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Andy Hasak

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Same issue, Windows 10.
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Richard Potts

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Same for me using Windows 10 - would have hoped this release was tested first!
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Nathan Johnson

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OK - I think I've solved this little mystery... it doesn't have anything to do with High Sierra (it's happening to me on El Capitan) BUT with the XMP presets conversion (and differences in convention between the .lrtemplate files and the .xmp files). 

Inside an .lrtemplate file, there are two name properties... "internalName" and "title"... when you initially create a preset file, they are both the same. But it is possible for the "title" to become different than the "internalName" (especially for preset developers who are editing .lrtemplate files directly). 

Example of .lrtemplate file:




So here, I must have changed the title directly in a text editor.

In any case, this didn't matter, because ALL PREVIOUS VERSIONS OF LIGHTROOM only looked at the "title" property to determine how to sort presets.

Enter LR Classic 7.3 and the .xmp conversion...

XMP also has a number of properties related to the name of the preset. The "Name" property is the displayed name...

BUT... XMP has a "SortName" property. And this property determines how Lightroom actually sorts the presets.

When LR 7.3 converted .lrtemplate files to .xmp files, it took the "internalName" and placed it in the "SortName" property... 

Example...



AND unlike all previous lightroom versions, the .xmp presets actually do get sorted by the sortName property... 

So now, inside Lightroom Classic, you see presets that are mostly sorted, but with seemingly random deviations from that sorting...



All that to say, I wish that Adobe hadn't assumed that we wanted the internalName to now be used a sorting device (which it never had been before). But I don't think it is cool that now we have the ability to do custom orders without changing the display name!

Now... I've got a lot of presets to update...
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Seth Carnill

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Great work, but are you really gonna correct all your presets by editing the metadata?  It would take me days I think...
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Nathan Johnson

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I'll edit the ones I make and send out updates to everyone who has bought my presets... but yeah, not gonna update every preset in my library... hopefully Adobe will solve?
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Cameron Braun

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This is excellent work, and at the very least will help Adobe narrow down a solution. Thanks for sharing!
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David Converse

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Since xmp files are plain text, this could be fixed with a script in a text editor or something like Perl. I don't use presets so it isn't a problem for me, just saying.
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Shai Bachar

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for the meanwhile, I rolled back to an earlier version. 
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Matthew Baldon

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I hope Adobe can solve this with an update, but since the file name / sort name discrepancy is already baked into the .XMP file itself, I'm not sure how Adobe could fix the problem with a Lightroom update itself.

On that note, can anybody figure out how to do this in KomodoEdit? (Notepad++?)
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Nathan Johnson

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So... I got tired of updating presets manually, so I went ahead and built a bash script for Mac users that fixes sorting automatically...

Tested with around 1,000 presets on OS X El Capitan... took about 10 seconds for the script to go through all of them, restarted Lightroom Classic 7.3, and everything is ordered just like it was. :)

Just put the script and instructions to use up for free on my website. http://natephotographic.com/lightroom-classic-7-3-presets-sorted-wrong-order/

Really curious to hear how it works for other (especially Sierra and High Sierra folks)?
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Nathan Johnson

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So... I got tired of updating presets manually, so I went ahead and built a bash script for Mac users that fixes sorting automatically...

Tested with around 1,000 presets on OS X El Capitan... took about 10 seconds for the script to go through all of them, restarted Lightroom Classic 7.3, and everything is ordered just like it was. :)

Just put the script and instructions to use up for free on my website. http://natephotographic.com/lightroom-classic-7-3-presets-sorted-wrong-order/

Really curious to hear how it works for other (especially Sierra and High Sierra folks)?
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Seth Carnill

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Wow Nathan, great work and thanks alot for sharing!  
I notice that the script works on the original .lrtemplate files, and then LR Classic will re-convert them into the xml format.  My question is - what happens to the presets that have already been converted?
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Nathan Johnson

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You're welcome!

OK - so removing the ~ from the .lrdevelop file causes it to overwrite the equivalently named .xmp file when it is re-converted.

The script I wrote will only do this in cases where there is found to be a mismatch between the "internalName" and the "title". So it should only overwrite the .xmp files where there was a mismatch. This should help at least limit issues caused by conversion, or accidentally overwriting a .xmp file you have changed. That said, if you've made a lot of changes to the .xmp files directly, probably a good idea to backup before using the script.
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Shai Bachar

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Same here on Win10  - ‎Shai Bachar‎ to Adobe Photoshop LightroomYesterday at 1:12am · 
NEW update NEW PROBLEMS. Hi Adobe. now what? new updated ruined the order of my presets and it's all mess now. instead of improving your slowing Classic CC, you're adding unnecessary presets of your own. I've never thought I'd consider working with other application. You're making me think it's time to do so... :-(
(Edited)
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Matthew Baldon

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Hi Shai,

I recognize those presets! :-P

Don't worry, I'm almost done with our solution. Will be rolled out very soon...
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Art Davis

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I agree that the new version is a mess.  I too am seriously considering abandoning LR.  It will be painful, but so is dealing with Adobe's continual release of dysfunctional 'improvements'.
   In this release not only are they messing with how the user is able to customize and reorder presets, but the new Profiles functionally absolutely screws up and adds unnecessary / unwelcome complexity to managing image tonality. 
   You'd think that Adobe would be testing their products before release; and that they'd be using Focus Groups to assess their new ideas - apparently not.  Its up to the customer to find the problems after the buggy software is released.
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Seth Carnill

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Art, I agree this release is a bit of a mess... but they are bugs that will be ironed out in future updates.  In the meantime there is a simple solution - simply revert back to version 7.2 and it will work perfectly as it did before... (this is what I have done).

I do believe that the new 'Profiles' work a bit differently under the hood, but as far as my workflow goes they are just the same old profiles doing what they always did.  We've all been using them for years whether we were aware of it or not, the only difference is that now they are more visible at the top of the basic panel.  But as far as I see it is a UI change only, and it need only affect your workflow if you want it to.

Good luck anyway... !
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Art Davis

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Seth,
My apologies for such a tardy response.
   I did decide to quit whining, to roll back to 7.2, and wait for other users to prove that Adobe can release stable, functional software.
  After rolling back to 7.2, I found that some of the new 7.3 bugs traveled backward with the roll-back - especially in the file management arena.  Yes, disappointed again.
   Then 7.3.1 was released - more dysfunctional software.
Remembering the question 'What is the definition of insanity', I am now considering abandoning the "Class CC" platform altogether.  
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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Official Response
We're investigating this issue. Thanks for reporting.
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Charles Putnam

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Dear Adobe - based on the above, it appears this is an Adobe created problem.  You have a LOT of preset developers scrambling.  Please provide a fix asap.  It should be much easier on your end - based on the info provided by Nathan Johnson above - on what needs to be done.
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J Kundi

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I hope we get a fix soon, being a heavy user of Mastin Labs and VSCO Presets for my workflow it has disrupted my delivery to clients. I reached out to VSCO and Mastin Labs customer support who are aware of the issue but have little control on their side for a fix. What Nathan has highlighted seems to be correct and hopefully this helps Adobe release an update soon. Till then I have uninstalled Lightroom and re-installed and will not install my presets till there is a Lightroom update. Not going through the tiresome process of cleaning/renaming Presets directories. 
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Seth Carnill

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To be fair Mastin and VSCO could offer updated presets which would sort correctly in the new version of LR if they wanted to.  They probably hope that Adobe issue a fix sooner.  Either way, this update is incredibly frustrating.  Personally, I have reverted to v7.2 and I will stick with it until the problem is resolved.
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Matthew Baldon

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I'm currently re-renaming ~400 presets. I know how frustrating this is, and based on the nature of the problem I know how slim my chances are that a LR update could fix the problem, sooner than I could...
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Ellen Rosenberg

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how do you rename the presets so that i can re input them into lr?
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Matthew Baldon

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...Oh, this is going to be SO MUCH FUN!!! THANKS ADOBE!
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Ellen Rosenberg

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so absolutely frustrated.. i have purchased and made hundreds of presets over the years.. now... with the update.. they are not only all over the place.. but half of them can't be imported.. frustrated.. need a fix... 
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Jenny Lens

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You Lose Preset Folders when you Import a new folder of presets. All newly imported presets display ONLY in USER PRESETS folder. Not individual folders.

That will NEVER work. Allow us to import a folder as we did in the past. We cannot work with hundreds of presets in the User Folder. Did Adobe do any beta testing on this?
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John TheBikeman

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Here's a workaround from https://lightroomkillertips.com/managing-develop-presets-7-3-update-classic/

As far as I can tell, the only way within Classic to create new preset folders is to create a new (dummy) preset, and within the New Develop Preset dialog, you can click the Group drop-down menu and choose New Group to create a new group/folder for your new preset. Once the preset is created, it will be in the new folder you created at the same time. You can then drag and drop presets into that folder as needed. Note, empty folders disappear, so don’t get rid of your dummy preset until you put others in that folder. You can use this convoluted process to rename a folder by creating a new folder with the renamed-name, moving presets into that new folder, and the empty folder with the old name goes poof.
Check out the link for more info and photos of the steps required.
(Edited)
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Jenny Lens

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Thanks @John TheBikeman. I just read that link over in a LR Facebook group. Great minds think alike! You are so kind to respond. 
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Jenny Lens

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My presets are in order, other than 1, 10, 11, 12, then 2, 20, 21, 3, 4, 5 ... come on, what is this, the 1990s? I haven't seen ordering like than since last century. SMH.
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Aimee Giese

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I will chime in too that I have purchased many presets and spent hours organizing them so they appear above the defaults, using = and 1,2,3 to flow in a way that is fast for me. This is a major cramp in my editing time to search around for the ones I want. Please fix asap, Adobe.
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Steve Bobaganoosh

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Why am I still paying Adobe for this software...?
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Ellen Rosenberg

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i was just thinking the same thing last night... used to love love love lightroom.. now not so sure.. give me my presets back.... 
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Aimee Giese

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While you are at it - make it so we can delete the defaults ;)
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Nathan Johnson

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Here's  a little trick... You can delete all the default "classic" folders, which makes it at least a little more usable.

On Mac, right-click on the Lightroom CC Classic (inside the Lightroom CC Classic folder, in your Application folder). And select "Show Package Contents"




Navigate to "Contents > Resources > Settings" and then delete the "Classic"  folder





Restart Lightroom CC Classic, and BOOM! No more of those annoying Classic folders!




There. That looks a little better.

I haven't been able to get the other defaults off... even after deleting them, they still persist.  It's like trying to delete Internet Explorer off of Windows...

Hope that helps!
-Nate
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Don Risi

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Yeah, I deleted them, did a search for one of them (just to see if it was still anywhere on the system), and rebooted.  They're still there and still functioning.  Very frustrating.
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Aimee Giese

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Any progress on this Lightroom? It is a serious productivity crusher.
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Aimee Giese

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I just rolled back to previous version till this is resolved. https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2401313
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J Kundi

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Will Adobe release a fix to this? It’s been few weeks now. Huge amount of Lightroom users are still having issues and are paying for a service. Rolling back to a previous version shouldn’t be a fix.
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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It's been 2 weeks today. There will no doubt be a fix as soon as they possibly can, but you'd be really cross if they released a fix that made things worse, so they'll have to spend a bit of time testing after fixing the worst of these issues. Should such big bugs have slipped through? No. But we all make mistakes. In the meantime, it's very easy to step back to 7.2, so as not to mess up your workflow.
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Damian Watracz

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I think that there should be some kind of quality control. If they are changing presets functionalities, someone should test if it works as it supposed to... Anyone familiar with presets would spot a bug like that in my opinion. And, it doesn't seem to be a very hard to fix it as it's just a naming issue from what I know.
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Art Davis

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I agree w/ Damian.  I would be more understanding if this were a one-off event.  It isn't.  And because it isn't a one-off, it is a pattern - apparently supported my management to the detriment of the customers.

Some background: 
   I worked in a Fortune 50 company for many years.  My experience there was:  One mistake was a learning opportunity, the second mistake was a failure to learn and a performance failure.  I think Adobe should be performing to the same standard.
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Seth Carnill

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"we all make mistakes"?  Sorry but Adobe, with their recent massive profits, should really iron out these problems during the Beta.  Makes me think they must be running a very half-hearted and ineffective Beta programme.  It's not some small developer with limited resources, it's a huge company that makes huge profits from this software.  There is really no excuse for the nightmare that was 7.3.
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Damian Watracz

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Having the same problem, presets are a mess and it's not possible to find anything. It ruins the whole workflow I have created. I think Adobe you should stop charging a subscription fee until you fix your software so that users won't have to downgrade to be able to use it...
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Art Davis

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I agree.  Being unable to prioritize your presets (etc) over the unwelcome, canned presets is a major frustration, headache, and productivity killer. 
   I think it is just bizarre that Adobe would choose to design their product in such a manner - and then to expect the established user base to support it is even more bizarre.
    I'd be happy if they rolled out a product that allow me to do my work my way - like it used to be.
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Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

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Presets should be sorting better in the 7.3.1 release launched earlier today. Please give us additional feedback after installing it and reviewing sort order on presets in their various locations. 
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eartho, Champion

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Did the Show Lightroom Presets Folder issue not get fixed with this patch? Why when i click the button is it still taking me to the old presets folder? And actually it's not even opening the old presets folder, but the LR folder which contains the old presets...

And why can we still not delete all the default Adobe crud presets which are never needed? In the presets tab in develop, if i click on a preset or folder, the minus button appears active but does nothing... why is this? Why can't i delete presets which i'm not using?
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Stefan Marte

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I hate to say it, but it is no better than before.

No renaming or ordering of folders still.
The option of creating a folder is gone in the main menu (that’s not what I wanted when I complained it doesn’t work).
Adobe folders still stubbornly Stick to the top. (Why?)
At least in folder ordering of presets seems not to be random any more.

But what’s with the folders?
Here I am, almost ready to jump ship, you release a few great updates that really improve things, and I think all will be well. And then you break something basic. Admin get it, mistakes can happen. So you push out another update with bug fixes. And I think great. Good response. Until I find it didn’t do much for my main problems. Can you at least deprioritize the default folders? They are really in the way. And docoverability should be hurt for newcomers if you do.
(Edited)
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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> Did the Show Lightroom Presets Folder issue not get fixed with this patch? Why when i click the button is it still taking me to the old presets folder?

No, that button still correctly takes you to where the REST of the Lightroom Presets are stored (like Metadata Presets, etc.). What they need is a second button to take you to the Camera Raw folder. And no, that's not in - this was an emergency hot fix for the biggest issues.
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TJM

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Still not working.  If I change the name of a preset (02A. Brightness +.25 to 02A. Brightness +.33, the preset drops out of order to the bottom of the list.  The only thing I changed was the end of the preset from +.25 to +.33.  This is very frustrating!!  Please properly fix!!!
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Grégory Millasseau

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7.3.1 didn't change a thing: still improperly sorted, impossible to delete or rename.
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Vladimir Koss

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Hey, Adobe! It's frustrating. After update to 7.3.1 the issue is present yet. Presets not sorting alphabetically, the user can't delete or rename preset, or just call the context menu with a right-click. Remember just when you squeeze the lemon, some juice are flowing through the fingers.

p.s. Oh, and now I can't move collections between the collection sets. Cmon, Adobe, Do something and better do it faster. You raise the cost of subscription and now you kicking desktop users (including professionals) out. Somewhere CaptureOne managers have a party.
(Edited)
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J Kundi

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Can someone tell me what a double ~ means infront of my old presets? Some have a single and some a double. 

Also if I remove the ~ at the front of my old presets will that tell Lightroom to re-convert that preset to .xmp?

Thanks. 
(Edited)
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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It just means it was reconverted to fix some issues introduced in 7.3. https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/not-all-presets-are-converted.html
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Johan Elzenga, Champion

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If you remove the ~ at the front of your old presets that will indeed tell Lightroom to re-convert that preset to .xmp, so don't do that unless there is a compelling reason for it.
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Rukes

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7.31 is a big improvement, but they only fixed alphabetical and not numerical.

If you have presets with numbers, it sorts by the first digit, so:
Preset 1
Preset 10
Preset 11
Preset 12
Preset 2
Preset 3

etc.
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TJM

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Nope.  I changed the end of a preset and it dropped it to the bottom of my list

02A. Brightness +.25
to
02A. Brightness +.33

That's all it took to screw the order.
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Laura Kent

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Ditto that.  Renaming presets irreversibly messes up any sort order again.  

And if you try to save a preset with a ":", it won't save (and it won't tell you it didn't save either).  Oddly, I can re-name a preset with a ":" and it will stick, except, of course it will show up at the bottom of the preset list again...

If anyone is going to fix the preset panel, while you're at it can you incorporate a drag and drop system so users can order their presets/folders the way we want without having to add leading zeros/numbers/letters?

And redesign the terrible spacing/indenting of the preset panel so we can see more of the preset name in the same-sized window. For the love of God even my tool tips for preset names get cut off (if they show up in the first place).  Space is valuable here, as preset names need to be somewhat descriptive.  We could see 5/8" more of a preset name in the same-sized panel without sacrificing anything if someone would redesign the panel so that:
1) The folder arrows were flush with the left side of the panel (why would they ever start in the middle of the panel anyway??)
2) The preset icons were eliminated (what is the purpose of them anyway??), and preset names start under folder names (1/4" away from left side of panel)
3)  Drag/drop sort order were implemented and we no longer have to add a 2-digit minimum number/letter combo to the folder and/or preset names.