Develop module preview differs from Library + Exported JPGs

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There is a rendering issue within the latest version of Lightroom Classic CC (8.2).

When making adjustments to highlights, whites, shadows, blacks and exposure, the image shown in the Develop module at the 'fit' zoom level is different to what is shown at a 1:1 zoom, the Library module and in exported JPG's.

Here is a screenshot as seen in the Develop module - https://i.imgur.com/ggvvc2X.jpg

Here is a screenshot of this exact image with no further adjustments, as an exported JPG - https://i.imgur.com/mXJ5XCr.jpg

In this example I have placed a radial adjustment on the couple, +17 Shadows and -90 Whites.

I had been using GPU acceleration but I have turned it off and this does not solve the problem. These are Sony A9 RAW files (.arw), Windows 10.
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Ben Howland

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Posted 4 months ago

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Carlos Cardona

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You DO seem to have an issue, but that the issue is with Lightroom Classic doesn’t necessarily follow, when seen on only 1 platform and 1 machine. I’m on a new iMac and haven’t seen this (Sony A7RII files). Perhaps as a test call a Mac user photo friend to help you test with your images, and another Windows machine also?
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Ben Howland

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Seeing that I've used LR for about 10 years and been editing A9 files with it for over 12 months, it seems unlikely that the issue is elsewhere. Especially considering that the difference can be seen within the Develop module - the image can vary by a whole stop of brightness between 'fit' and the 1:1 zoom ratio before even going to Library or an exported JPG.

The image preview within LR should be consistent between varying Develop zoom levels, and also the Library module.
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Carlos Cardona

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Ben you’re absolutely correct that it seems unlikely, but after a 25 year IT career I can’t tell you how many times the answer to the problem was the unlikely one! As we used to say, “built by hippies, that’s why!”
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Ben Howland

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I know that testing with a wide range of operating environments is important to diagnose a bug, but if the solution turns out to be 'don't edit on a Windows machine with an NVIDIA graphics card' that's not exactly ideal ;-)

In the meantime I'm watching some Capture One tutorials haha
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Johan Elzenga, Champion

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Did you really post a screenshot of an exported image rather than the exported image itself? Then the first question is what software you use to view the image (and so to make that screenshot) and what color space the exported image has. You would not be the first one who complains about color differences while looking at an image in a non-color managed viewer.
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Ben Howland

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The issue presents itself within different zoom levels of the Develop module of LR.

It's not a colour management issue.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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Can you post screen shots of different zoom levels within Develop? Those are the symptoms to focus on for troubleshooting, since as Johan points out, differences in color between Develop, Library, and external viewers are usually color management issues.
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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Also, try clearing the Camera Raw cache by going to Preferences > Performance > Camera Raw Settings and clicking Purge Cache. There have been a few instances of corrupted caches reported in the past year or so.
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Simon Chen, Principal Computer Scientist

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What John said. Does the color differences between various develop zoom levels reproduce on any photo or just a particular one. Also for testing, toggle off the GPU acceleration for once and see the issue reproduce there. Pleas post your Lightroom>Help>System Info...
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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There was a similar and opposite issue reported at the below LR forum link.  In this case the Develop module view is brighter than the Library module and Export images on the OP's system. On my system the darker image rendering appears in both the Library and Develop modules with the OP's brighter Develop module screen preview appearing to be incorrect.

It would be helpful for Ben Howland to upload a DNG Export file with his settings applied.

https://forums.adobe.com/message/11000266#11000266



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Ben Howland

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I have cleared the Camera Raw Cache, recalibrated my displays, turned off GPU acceleration and the fault is still present.

'Fit' zoom level within Develop - https://i.imgur.com/7SmFQQc.jpg
1:1 zoom level within Develop - https://i.imgur.com/PGUDRW3.jpg

DNG - https://www.dropbox.com/s/tpsozt8c6b1jx2y/T_001.dng?dl=0
System Info - https://www.dropbox.com/s/cnckl6enre4kvgm/About%20LR.txt?dl=0
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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The downloaded DNG with your settings looks identical at all Zoom settings in both the Library and Develop modules on my Windows 10 system with the same version 10.0.17763. It looks dark to me so not 100% sure what it looks like on your system. I'm using an Nvidia Quadro P2000 GPU, which is much newer. There appears to be a new driver for the Nvidia GTX 1080 released 3/25/2019. Try a "Clean Install' as outlined at the 2nd link below using the new driver.

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/145534/en-us

https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2900/kw/clean%20install/session/L3RpbWUvMTU1NDE2...



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Simon Chen, Principal Computer Scientist

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Thanks for sharing the DNG. I could sort of reproduce e issue, only when I turned on "Use Smart Previews instead of Originals for image editing" (Lightroom>Preferences>Performance). Try to check off this preference and the rendering discrepancies between the 1:1 and fit mode (and the library) would disappear.

What happens is that when this preference is checked (for speed up image walking and editing in develop), Lightroom would try to only load and edit a Smart Preview quality (even when SP is not present) negative when possible. It would only load the full resolution original when one zoom into 1:1 or greater.

Obviously editing this Smart Preview quality negative isn't the same thing as editing the full resolution original. It is just an approximation. For most times, it would be a close replacement. But on this photo, there is visible difference. This is because since Process Version 3, the range of some basic adjustment controls (highlight/shadows/whites/blacks etc) are adaptive to the image content. Such image statistics differs between full resolution and Smart Preview quality negatives. In your case you have applied global and local gradient with such type of adjustments.

If you toggle the Process Version to version 2, then you would not see such differences.

If your priority is the visual fidelity, check off the  "Use Smart Previews instead of Originals for image editing" preference.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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Thank you Simon–Great investigative work! It looks like that is the cause of a similar issue at the below link in the LR Forum.

https://forums.adobe.com/message/11000266#11000266

In addition when using a Smart Preview for editing with the DNG file at the above post it doesn't properly apply Spot Removal areas, which are visible as dark squares in the below Develop module screenshot.

https://forums.adobe.com/external-link.jspa?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dropbox.com%2Fs%2Fky6p9imtvvx6gb0%...

As an FYI I'm seeing similar issues (brightness differences) when using a full-size lossy DNG file created using the LR Export module.
(Edited)
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Simon Chen, Principal Computer Scientist

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Thanks Todd for watching out on these customer issues for us. The DNG is very useful for me to diagnose the problem very quickly. I'll pass on the info to the team.

Technically Smart Preview (or equivalent), lossy compressed DNG are different from the original. All might look similar in the default un-adjusted state, but they might exhibit differences in rendered results, especially under heavy/extreme adjustments.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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but they might exhibit differences in rendered results, especially under heavy/extreme adjustments.
Simon, this image file and the one at the LR Forum post both have a LR Histogram with the majority of the image data shifted below the 50% level with no edits applied. With both of these images simply setting both Highlights and Shadows to 0 (with all other adjustments still applied) corrects the issue. I've never seen this using Smart Previews or full-size Lossy DNG files when the LR histogram has substantial image data above the 50% level. Just an FYI.

T_001.dng



A__05471.DNG
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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UPDATE: I tired duplicating this issue using Canon 5D MKII image files both properly exposed and underexposed. In ALL cases using Smart Previews for editing I was NOT able to reproduce the issue.

A quick look shows both the image file here and the one in the LR Forum post were shot with a Sony ILCE-9 camera. So it appears to be something specific with this camera model. I hope that helps!
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Ben Howland

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Thanks for all the assistance provided in this thread :)

Unchecking the 'Use Smart Previews' checkbox has resolved the issue for me, extra thanks to Simon! It's disappointing that I can't enjoy the increased performance of using Smart Previews but I'll gladly take that compromise if it means knowing my edits are accurate.

This is clearly still a bug to some degree, from what I could find this community forum was the most legitimate place to report it?
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John R. Ellis, Champion

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This is the official place to report bugs, so your bug has been reported.
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Todd Shaner, Champion

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It's disappointing that I can't enjoy the increased performance of using Smart Previews but I'll gladly take that compromise if it means knowing my edits are accurate.
Ben, looking at your edits this issue is due to using extreme settings near maximum value. This is an "editing recipe" for failure when maximum settings are applied in both the Global Tone panel AND Local controls such as the Adjustment Brush, Graduated Filter and Radial Filter. This can cause issues even when using the original raw file and not just with Smart Previews for editing.

Specifically, you've applied a -100 Whites setting, which is double-extreme since it's a maximum setting AND in the opposite direction of normal usage. On top of that you've applied a Radial filter of -90 Whites, which again is near maximum and the opposite direction of normal usage. This should never be necessary for "normal" image editing. I've created an Adobe Lightroom Help article on the Basic panel Tone Control Adjustment workflow, which should be helpful.

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/help/tone-control-adjustment.html

Instead of the radial Filter use the 'Post Crop Vignetting' control in the 'Effects' panel if that's what you're trying to apply. Otherwise the above article will help achieve your objectives.

In addition to the above settings the DNG file appears very dark on my display and the Histogram is heavily shifted to the left (i.e. Blacks). This is indicative of an overly bright display setting. Do you use a monitor calibrator and if so what Luminance setting?