Photoshop Elements: Image Date / Time metadata corruption when opened in Organizer

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I reported an issue to the Support Centre and they recommended I put this forward as a feature request.
I took a number of photographs over the weekend. When I loaded them into Organiser it changed the EXIF date. For example the first photograph had a date time stamp of 20/05/2011 21:21:23 (date format DD/MM/CCYY) when it loaded into Organiser the date changed to 20/5/2011 20:21. When I selected this photo for edit in Elements 9 the time promptly changed to 19:21.
I have a Mac running OSX 10.6.7 and Elements / Organiser 9.
Jack Allen
jack.allen2@btinternet.com
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Jack Allen

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Posted 9 years ago

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ROBERT KRAUSE

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With the Adobe supplied update to Photoshop Elements 9.0.3, I have encountered a problem moving RAW (CR2) images into the Elements Organizer Catalog. Whereas JPEG images import without change, RAW (CR2) images import with their "timestamp"
being changed by 4 Hours (earlier). This results in the thumbnail images no longer showing in the Organizer Catalog Browser screen with the JPEG thumbnail of each image showing directly next to the corresponding RAW (CR2) thumbnail. I need to individually change the "timestamp" of each RAW (CR2) thumbnail to correct the problem and restore normal positioning. The "timestamps" in the metadata files remain correct. Since this has only become a problem with the current update to Elements version 9.0.3, I assume that the problem comes from a "bug" in the present update. Can you issue a new update correcting this problem? I have tried to find another solution using Adobe's online Customer support. The online "chat service" sent me to an 800 phone number. The Customer service agent at that number promised to "research" the issue and get back to me. I have received no call-back.

Robert E. Krause
krauserd@citcom.net

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Photoshop Elements: Timestamp change problem with 9.0.3 update..
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Jack Allen

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Thanks Jeffrey,
You can make whatever change you think appropriate.
On the question of what time it actually is, I am in the UK and therefore in the GMT timezone. At the moment were have daylight saving on therefore if Organizer is reverting to GMT it should lose 1 hour, which makes sense - I don't like it, I think it should simply accept the date and time that comes off the camera. Normalising the date does not explain why it's losing an other hour when the photo is opened from Organiser in Elements.

Jack
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Reinier Smeets

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I don't like the timezone correction. Is it possible to turn it off? As mentioned before in this thread, when I import twin-files RAW and JPG shot at the same time in organiser the RAW files have 2 hours earlier time stamp than the JPG files.

Reinier
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Stephen Boffey

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When downloading RAW files to Photoshop Elements 9 the organiser adds one hour to the recorded time of taking the photograph. It doesn't do this for JPEG files. Consequently I can't easily stack my pairs of JPEG and .CR2 photographs. This didn't occur when I bought the program and has suddenly started in the last two or three weeks. I see from the forum and other sites that you have been alerted to this problem but don't seem bothered about it, so I am adding my voice to say that it is a major problem and I will do what I can to warn people not to buy PSE9 until you've fixed it.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
Adobe messed up PSE9 and won't fix it - RAW file downloads change recorded time..
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Rob San

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I am running PSE 9.0.3. After upgrading I have had a problem with organizer changing the time that a raw file is associated with. On my system (I am in Central Time zone in the US), it is subtracting 5 hours from the time the photo is taken and associating the raw file with the new time. This is extremely problematic. I have seen this issue raised on several bulletin boards and it appears many people are frustrated to the point of switching software and writing to photo magazines. I hope that you come up with a solution for this soon or I too will end up switching software.

This reply was created from a merged topic originally titled
RAW file time changes in PSE 9.0.3.
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dan onym

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i am shocked and dismayed to see a piece of software as sophisticated and mature (in terms of years and versions) as PSE 9 having a problem with something so fundamental and critical to it's users as the treatment of datestamps. no other software i have used handles the date as GMT rather than the time the photographer set in the camera. C'MON! what in the world are you doing? while it's wonderful that you provide facilities for correcting, changing, or adjusting the time associated with an image, *OBVIOUSLY* the default timestamps should be what the camera was set to when the image was taken. it is unbelievable to me that this product could actually treat raw & jpeg files of the same shot differently when imported off the same camera card. very, very disappointing. shameful.
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Richard Russell

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I too have this problem. At first I batch changed the time (4 hours for me) on the RAW files to match the jpegs, then I got fed up and uninstalled PSE.

First I downloaded the 9_0_1 update and the Camera Raw update. Next I disconnected my Internet connection and re-installed PSE 9_0. After installation I unchecked the Update feature in pse and exited from pse. Re-connected the internet connection, ran the 9_0_1 update and the camera raw update. I did this because pse still meets my needs. You have to wonder about the stability of folks that think gmt is what photographers want their timestamp to be.
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Richard Russell

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Sorry, I left out a word - "gmt is 'only' what"
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James Evans

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I have also discovered this problem recently and, as others have stated, it is only happening to the raw files (CR2 in my case). It not only affected things that are brought in after the upgrade. It has changed all of my Raw files to be four hours earlier than the metadata indicates!!!! My entire catalog!! The JPEGs are fine. This is definitely a bug and a big one at that. How can this be corrected? I don't see any option to even change time settings in photoshop and going through correcting all of my raw files by four hours is insane. How and when will this be fixed?
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Richard Russell

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Hi James Evans,

For PSE 9, I changed the timestamp by:
select one or more thumbnails in the Organizer,
right click and select Adjust Date and Time in the menu,
then select Shift by a set number of hours in my case it was 4 hours

This was not fun!!

Sometimes I feel that software manufacturers can't stand having a low cost product that runs well, so they 'fix' it.
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Rob San

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I don't know why, but it sticks in my mind that every time you click on the raw file it changes the time. I started to "fix" it the way you did Richard and decided it wasn't worth it. I am curious, though, for those who reinstalled to something prior to 9.0.3 - did you have to go in and adjust the times on your files? Or did it pick up the correct time automatically? I haven't reinstalled the 9.0.1 version yet and that question is what is holding me back.
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Richard Russell

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Rob - 9_0_3 didn't change my existing raw files, just the ones since the update, so I may have been very fortunate. From my career I have a great deal of experience with software on main-frame computer systems doing ugly things so, while I fixed my files, I stewed about whether to switch to something with a more user-friendly product maturity path. I'm retired now, photography was my stress reliever, now it's my serious hobby, who needs a product designed to screw up something I enjoy? What gem of a 'fix' will the Adobe product management team come up with next to annoy pse users?

I just took three pictures and the Organizer Photo Downloader indicates the raw files will be 4 hours different than the jpegs - so now 9_0_1 is no better. Exited from the downloader before getting the files.

Then in Windows Explorer I copied the files to a watched folder. The organizer merrily changed the timestamp on the raw files to gmt.

Either the 9_0_1 update is contaminated or there is some evil little piece of crap remaining after an uninstall. Perhaps the folks at Adobe are displaying their professional pride by making darn sure GMT is a defacto standard for raw files in the pse organizer.

I'm going to uninstall once more and delete any remaining folders associated with pse, then I'll look in the registery on the off chance there is something clearly associated with pse. After the look-see I'll re-install pse 9_0. If the timestamp behavior remains then it is definitely time to move away from the Adobe fixit attitude.

James - you're absolutely right, the question is when or how to fix it. When - I run Windows 7 64 bit, it took a very long for Adobe to support viewing, outside of their product, their very own DNG format on a 64 bit! How - Note Jeff Tranbery's answer 1 month ago, the topic title and type could be changed. And since then not a peep, not even a we're working on it. Now, doesn't that speak volumes?
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Richard Russell

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After you change the raw image timestamp in the Organizer to what it should be (your preference), have you noticed that when you click 'Edit with Photoshop Elements' for that image, the time immediately reverts to the Adobe preference?
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Richard Russell

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I am now back to running pse 9.0.1 with acr 6.1 and the raw image timestamp is not messed with (acr 6.1 came with my version of pse).

Something strange that I came across during my testing was that after installing the adobe camera raw 6.4 update on pse 9.0.1/acr 6.1 the unwanted timestamp changing started. Don't know about the acr 6.3 update - skipped it for the 6.4 update.

To get a clean install of pse 9.0 I deleted post-uninstall artifacts related to camera raw, photoshop elements and the organizer. With windows explorer it was folders and files and with regedit it was registry entries. Camera raw was included because of the artifact registry entry 'PrefsTimeStamp' for camera raw. Once a re-installed pse 9.0 proved to run cleanly, I did a system backup with acronis true home. After the system backup it was playtime. When playtime ended, running a system recovery was the preferred option.

Looks like the average person will just have to wait on Adobe for any response. So for me, which comes first - the new camera or the new image cataloging software because camera raw 6.4 (6.4.1) or pse 9.0.3 are now a non-starter?
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Stewart Smith

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I am one of those "average" persons. When can I expect Adobe to do something about this??

I just returned from several weeks in Europe with 4,600+ photos that fellow tourists, friends, and family are excitedly waiting to see. I started editing them on my PC with PSE 8 but the PC crashed and I lost everything (fortunately, I had backed up all the originals). I now had an excuse to get a Mac and did so. I also purchased and installed PSE 9 after reading Adobe's rave ads and thinking that, since I had had no issues with previous versions, this would be better. I loaded the photos, started working, and... WTF??? Everything I've touched (some several times) now has a new date and time stamp several times removed from what it was originally.

My guess is that most, if not all photographers would want the time and date stamp to remain what it was when the photo was taken (no matter which time zone they were in at the time and in which they will be when they edit that photo) and not adjusted by the editing or cataloging software for some "logical" reason. Even if the original time and date stamp was incorrect, at least the photos would stay in the order taken. Photos I took the third day are now mixed in with those of the first day. Photos taken in Venice are now with those taken in Lucerne. What a mess and waste of time!

This certainly doesn't give me the "warm and fuzzies" about purchasing Adobe new and improved products in the future!
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Richard Russell

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I was idly cruising the Lightroom problems. It seems the adobe folks are messing with timestamps for Lightroom as well. Lightroom is supposedely a professional product, but before thinking of moving to Lightroom from PSE do a search within Adobe such as: "lightroom changes the time".

The following are but 3 examples of the wailing and gnashing of teeth by 'professionals', you know, talented folks scrambling to make a buck by using skill, reliable equipment and reliable software:

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...

http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...

Perhaps Adobe has resolved the time problems with Lightroom, but the more I searched, the more I wondered if a part of Adobe is in meltdown or simply just out of touch with what photographers really want? You have it right Stewart, there isn't much reason for 'warm and fuzzies' at this time. So where is the Adobe response or is it 'run-and-hide'?

I really, really like PSE for editing tif and jpeg images, I don't plan on switching. Now I'll just have to find something for editing raw and cataloging. So what if the two products don't pass the image between them, I just want something (as Stewart says) that gives me the 'warm and fuzzies"!
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Richard Sjolund

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All I want for Christmas is a Mac version of good old Bridge that can work with for PSE 9.0 and get ACR updates.

Why is that so hard for Adobe to do???????

I hate organizer!
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Mark Dahm, Product Manager

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We've exchanged some internal email on this topic, but we've not yet verified the original report, which is that an ACR update could be causing the time shift for RAW images (JPEG seem OK). Looking into it; thanks for your patience...

-Mark
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Rob San

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What, has adobe not installed their own updates? I don't see why you have "not yet verified the original report, which is that an ACR update could be causing the time shift for RAW images." This thread has been going for a month and if I remember correctly I saw it on my own computer almost 2 months ago after allowing an update of PSE 9 and ACR to take place. I understand programming takes time as I interact with programmers on a regular basis, but to say that you have not yet verified the original report seems a bit odd to me.
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Mark Dahm, Product Manager

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I personally have not installed the update, nor have I seen the issue myself, and I am not on the Elements team directly, so I didn't want to mis-represent their position.

Over the course of the day, I did learn that changes were made in ACR 6.4 to bring it into closer compliance with the Metadata Working Group standards, and this caused Elements to miscalculate the time value for RAW assets running through the ACR pipeline.

My recommendation would be to apply a manual shift to the RAW images that go into the Elements Organizer via the 6.4 ACR update until a more permanent solution is available.

-Mark
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Rob San

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Mark, thanks for the clarification and my apology for being a bit snippy in my message above. It is just very frustrating to have to manually change the time and when I read the post about verifying the problem I was annoyed at not having a solution. For some reason when I tried to adjust the time when I first noticed the problem, the data would change every time I opened the cr2 in the editor. I went back this afternoon and tried it again and it seems to be holding the time after I manually shift it so I must have either done something wrong before or there was a hickup in the system causing it to lose the time I set.

It is still frustrating that we have to do the shift, but I guess knowing that it does actually work will probably cause me to go ahead and sort through 2 months worth of photos and do this. Thanks for encouraging me to try it again. I do hope that you or members of the team will keep us posted as to what is going on and I hope that a solution is found soon.

Robert
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Charles Herron

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I'm having the same issues with Elements 8...why does it have to go to a time zone, why not just use the date and time set in the camera, who cares about a time zone shift?
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ROBERT KRAUSE

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Perhaps this information will help Adobe staff find the source of the update problem. I only encountered the time stamp change "problem" (with RAW images only) when I took Adobe's offer and updated my Adobe Photoshop Elements 9.0.1 software to version 9.0.3 and updated the RAW converter to version 6.4 . My current solution was to uninstall Elements 9.0.3 and reinstall the original Elements 9.0.0 and then to only update it to version 9.0.1 and to only update the RAW converter to version 6.3 . With these limited updates, I have no problems on either a Windows XP installation and on a Windows 7 installation. It is obvious to me that the problem update "bug" is either in the update to Elements version 9.0.3 or in the RAW converter update to version 6.4 (or 6.4.1). The bug may be in both updates.

Hopefully, this will help Adobe home in on the source of the bug problem.

Bob Krause
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ROBERT KRAUSE

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In May (2011), I logged my version of this problem in to Adobe as Case Number 0182333568 (now closed). About May 24th, Adobe Customer Care agreed that there was a Bug involved and logged the issue to the Product Team and Engineering Team as Bug #2878151. Maybe you can track Adobe's progress at overcoming this Bug using my case numbers. While I wait, I have uninstalled Photoshop Elements 9.0.3 with RAW converter version 6.4 and have reinstalled Adobe Photoshop Elements 9.0.0 and have updated it to version 9.0.1 with RAW converter version 6.3 . I have not had any problems since I reinstalled Photoshop Elements 9 to this configuration. I run Elements 9 on both a Windows XP desktop computer and on a Windows 7 laptop computer.

Meanwhile, I am still awaiting a permanent Adobe fix.

Bob Krause
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Mark Dahm, Product Manager

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Thanks Robert; I found your bug in the DB, and in fact found 3 other similar sounding reports, so now they are all related, and I updated the bug as 'Confirmed', adding the info that this thread has provided.

I believe that it is possible to install a different ACR plugin version without reverting to an earlier version of PSE, but I'm not 100% sure how; if anybody knows how to do this, it would be great to share, since I suspect reverting to a previous version of PSE might be overkill, vs. updating just the ACR plugins.

-Mark
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ROBERT KRAUSE

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It might be overkill to go back to Elements 9.0.0 in rebuilding Elements to a stable system. However, in my case, it appeared that both updating from Elements version 9.0.1 to version 9.0.3, OR updating the RAW converter to version 6.4 (or later version 6.4.1) resulted in the time stamp error Bug coming into play. Perhaps both the Elements version 9.0.3 update and the RAW converter 6.4 update contain the same code Bug. I can't say. I also don't know of any way to "un-update" once the update has been installed and shown to be faulty. My only success was to totally uninstall and then to rebuild starting from a known stable performing base of Photoshop Elements 9.0.0 with whatever the base RAW converter is in Photoshop Elements 9.0.0 (RAW Converter 6.1 or 6.2?). The result took me to Elements version 9.0.1 with RAW converter 6.3 and that works fine for my systems. Proceeding beyond there either to Elements version 9.0.3 OR to RAW converter version 6.4 results in the Bug showing up. That's just my experience.

Bob Krause
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Jack Allen

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I started this conversation a month or so ago. There seems to be an assumption that the problem only relates to RAW files and JPGs are ok. This is not the case. My photos are all JPGs and Organizer is corrupting the times.
I am running OSX10.6.8 and Elements 9.0.3. I'm assuming Adobe are going to investigate this issue, please don't assume it only affects RAW files, at least on the Apple platform.