Lightroom Classic 7.3: Converting to black and white defaults to Adobe Monochrome instead of the currently applied Camera Profile

  • 10
  • Problem
  • Updated 4 months ago
  • (Edited)
In the latest release of Lightroom Classic CC (7.3), hitting the "v" key to convert to black and white changes the profile to "Adobe Monochrome." This can create some unexpected behavior when using Lightroom presets that have a custom camera calibration profile associated with them. 

For instance, here I've used a preset from NATE X-Chrome that has a custom camera profile:



In all previous versions of Lightroom, when I hit "v" to convert to black and white, the profile remains. But when I hit "v" in Lightroom Classic CC, it unexpectedly changes the profile to Adobe Monochrome, leading to unexpected results:



I have to go into the profiles and manually switch the profile to "NATE PureTone BW" to get the behavior I expected in the first place...




Once I've manually made that change to "NATE PureTone BW", that individual image then starts to toggle with the correct profile when I hit the "v" key again.
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Nathan Johnson

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Posted 4 months ago

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Jeffrey Tranberry, Sr. Product Manager, Digital Imaging

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Hi Nathan, this is currently As Designed. That said, we're looking at adding the ability to specify your own B&W profile.
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Nathan Johnson

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Oh no! This is so much worse! Please please please change this back to the way that it was!!!

I don't want to have to specify my own B&W profile... I just want it to work automatically like it used to... whatever profile I already had applied, it just made a B&W version off of that...

The previous setup allowed me to quickly switch back and forth between B+W and color, and get a better sense of the tones in an image and make tonal edits. Now, it doesn't just convert to black and white, it completely changes the underlying camera calibration profile!

I also liked before that the B&W mix panel settings persisted, even as you changed between black and white and color. 

Now, in 7.3 if I make changes to the B&W mix panel, then switch to color, then switch back to B&W, all of my mix panel adjustments are gone! Please don't tell me that this as designed too?
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Rick Eborall

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Having the same issue.  It has increased my workflow 10 fold. Please go back to the previous way LR converted my imported camera profile (Nikon camera neutral) to BnW or any other camera profile I choose to use.
I want to be able to control how my starting point begins and not have Adobe choose how they think I should begin, ie with Adobe BnW Default. It just doesn't work!
(Edited)
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Rainer Plaschka

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I also uses the Nate X-Chrome presets and Nate PureTone camera-profile.
After the LR update the whole X-Chrome section is not working well.
First i took a X-Chrome film and the profile switches to Nate PureTone.
Next step i want use a X-Chrome developer and further X-Chrome tone and paper.
But then the profile switches to Adobe Standard and the raw is colored again.
Only when i use Adobe monochrome, i can use the developer and tone&paper presets section.

Rainer
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Gary Rowe

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"this is currently As Designed" ... ok, that may be so, but why was it designed this way?
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Adrian Beasley

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I dont like this behaviour either.  I shoot Infrared and use a custom profile to deal with the colour correction.  When I click Black & White it replaces the IR profile.  Not happy with that.
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Yves Crausaz

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Pour moi, les boutons "Couleur" et "Noir et Blanc" ne doivent pas associer automatiquement un quelconque Profile, sinon nous ne pouvons plus les utiliser pour gérer les lumières comme nous le faisions dans les versions précédentes.

For me, the buttons "Color" and "Black and White" should not automatically associate any Profile, otherwise we can not use them to manage the lights as we did in previous versions.
(Edited)
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Yves Crausaz

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Éventuellement une solution de contournement, déplacer le curseur Saturation tout à gauche, puis un Ctrl/Cmd + Z pour revenir à son état précédent pour ne pas en perdre le réglage, ou encore en passant par une copie virtuelle où on copierait tous les réglages sauf le Traitement et Profil et la Couleurs / Saturation.

Possibly a workaround, move the Saturation slider to the far left, then a Ctrl / Cmd + Z to return to its previous state so as not to lose the setting, or even go through a virtual copy where you copy all the settings except Treatment and Profile and Colors / Saturation.
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Dan Marchant

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"Now, in 7.3 if I make changes to the B&W mix panel, then switch to color, then switch back to B&W, all of my mix panel adjustments are gone! Please don't tell me that this as designed too?"

I choose the tones in my colour image so that they will look right when converted to B&W. I don't want them changing to what Adobe think they should be. The B&W conversion process is completely broken!
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Henrik Zawischa

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I agree with the complaint. Not that I have used profiles much so far, but I had a nice calibrated one for my cameras each. I'd love to start b/w conversion from that, not from the CR default. At least that should be an option, apparently it isn't.
Henrik
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Matthias Bober

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Yes, it's a mess. I just want to be able to set my camera profile (Nikon Neutral) as starting point and do my B/W conversion from there. This is how I have done all my B/W editing in LR.
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Matthias Bober

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Actually I wasn't aware that all camera profiles for B/W conversions are located under Legacy in the profile browser. Not a very intuitive location. But at least I can still work with B/W and camera profiles.
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Yves Crausaz

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Legacy is "N & B for Noir et Blanc in french translation, this is OK and easy to find !!!
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Laura Kent

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Any idea how to get new profiles (created post 7.0) to have their own bw conversion and show up in the legacy folder?
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Mandos

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For me its not only the "jumping" profiles, which in itself is annoying, but the BW mixture that doesn't sync. That is really annoying because I want to be able to chose the colours creatively and then set the hues in BW to then sync them, but the option has just vanished from the program. You can not sync your own BW settings through many pics anymore. That is just broken. I fear I have to downgrade. Please fix this ASAP.
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Rainer Plaschka

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Hello Nathan, i downgraded to LR Classic v7.2 (Windows 7)
I don ́t want miss the possibilities with the X-Chrome presets.
And v7.3 isn`t an update, it ́s a rude new version (i don ́t need color-profiles, like to post on Instagram)!
(Edited)
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Nathan Johnson

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Rainer - well, if you ever do decide to upgrade back, some good news: the new version of X-Chrome coming out later today will actually work super super well in LR Classic 7.3 (in a lot of ways, maybe better than the old version running on 7.2).  Ended up using a combination of presets and new custom camera profiles and really thrilled with what I'm seeing.

I still have some gripes with how dramatically Adobe changed the concept of black and white conversion in this version, but I will say the more I've gotten to know 7.3, the more I see the power behind the new architecture. A little short term pain, but in the long run, will enable me to create way more sophisticated and precise presets!
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Rainer Plaschka

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Natahn - nice to read this. Do you send an update to your customers? I bought the X-Chrome presets in february 2018, or should i send you an email?
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Laura Kent

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From what I can tell, any  "old" profile (prior to 7.1) has a bw version in the Legacy folder.  How can I get NEW profiles into that Legacy folder?  I can not turn my custom profiles into black and white profiles.  If I desaturate the color version of my legacy profiles it looks exactly like the bw legacy version.  I tried to create a bw profile in ACR desaturating one of my new profiles, but I do not get the resulting BW mix in the develop settings.  I still get the HSL sliders, which don't have any effect.  I am trying to think of alternative workarounds, but I'd have to recreate my tone curves based off adobe monochrome and I don't want to tackle that yet.

Lightroom created the Legacy files automatically when updating, surely there's somewhere I can do it with new profiles too...???