Photoshop: Ability to select a color by temperature using the Color Picker

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When I open the color picker in any application, it gives me RGB, CMYK, LAB, Hexidecimal means to select a color. Why not add the ability to select a color by temperature? This feature could be added to the eyedropper as well, and info palette. We should be able to see what the color temperature is of any given area or be able to pick a color or add it too something. I like in Lightroom that we can see the color temp of white balance but maybe we could extend that throughout the adobe ecosystem by making colors selectable in the color picker by temp.
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Mark Gilvey

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Posted 2 months ago

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Andrew Rodney

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Because color temp defines a large range of possible colors of White:
http://digitaldog.net/files/22Thecolo...
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Steve Lehman

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This is why we have Light Room with its many white balance steps of color temps.   And Adobe wouldn't have it unless we needed it.  Also, Elements has temps, click: Filters>Adjustments>Photo filter.   See ya.   

Steve Lehman, mcse   



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Anthony Blackett

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Colour temperature is not a colour in the sense that RGB,CMYK, LAB, HSL,etc are, so you can't make a colour picker by temperature. Colour temperature relates to light sources that approximate an ideal black body, whose spectral radiance obeys Planck's law of black body radiation. For a given temperature, a black body at that temperature emits a spectrum of radiation that follows a rising curve from zero, peaks, then falls off as the radiated frequency increases. The frequency at which the peak occurs increases with temperature, so at low temperature, the peak occurs at the reddish/orange end of the visible spectrum, while at a high temperature the peak is in the blue end of the spectrum. For the sun, the peak is in the yellow region. For most colours, such as green, it make no sense at all to try and assign them a colour temperature.

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Steve Lehman

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Anthony,  

I think your right about some of the color temps you mentioned Anthony, but the color of the Sun mentioned, I'm not sure I can agree on its actual color.  The Sun is utlraviolet blueish as seen in space, and ultra-violet light is in our shadows on Earth.  We see the Sun as yellow below our atmosphere because the atmosphere bends sunlight.  

Steve Lehman, mcse



(Edited)
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Anthony Blackett

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Steve,

The colour of the sun as seen through our atmosphere is indeed yellow for the same reason the sky is blue. This is not because the atmosphere bends the light, but because it scatters shorter wavelength blue light more strongly than longer wavelength red light. However, the sun is definitely not an ultraviolet blueish star. If it was, we wouldn't be here! Any text on astronomy will tell you that our sun is classified as a main sequence G2V star, commonly referred to as a "yellow dwarf star". It emits a continuous spectrum peaking in the green wavelengths. The fact that the spectrum is continuous means without the effects of the atmosphere we would see it as white.

Colour temperature in photography is a term taken from black body radiation theory and refers to the light source illuminating the subject or scene being photographed and has nothing to do with the colours in the subject. Daylight colour film was designed so that white photographed under midday sunlight would appear white to us when viewed and the same goes for the white balance setting on digital cameras. A daylight colour balance setting doesn't mean the colour of the sun is white, only that white photographed in bright sunlight will appear white to us.


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Andrew Rodney

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Anthony is correct about WB in total. There is no possibility to pick it as a color as requested.
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Steve Lehman

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Anthony is not correct.  He describes Sunlight bending in the atmosphere in the same way I said in a shorter sentence. Check your science, it's ultraviolet (said Buzz Aldrin)   I had enough of your know-it-all-stuff.   Correct your own please.   I didn't come here for your arguments.    See ya.   
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Andrew Rodney

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Let's attempt to help him Anthony. 

Steve, see this graphic below. This is the Spectrum Locus and we can go into detail about what it's all about but what you see is a horseshoe shape filled with colors. 
In the lower quarter you see the Black Body curve. Keep in mind this is a theoretical construct. Now do you see the line running perpendicular with the letters e and f by the number 5000? That's 5000K (Kelvin). ANY color you see running along that line perpendicular to that black body curve CAN be called 5000K! It is a range of colors. 
D50 is a very different beast; it falls on the black body curve and is an expect/specific color definition. 

OK, say you want a color picker to give you 5000K. You can't for a number of reasons but a really huge one is, it's a large range of possible colors. Our color pickers provide a specific triplet of color numbers (RGB with an associated RGB color space like sRGB) or better, using Lab values. When you ask Photoshop or LR or any Adobe app (among others) for a color value, it is really based on a very specific triplet of Lab values. 

IN this discussion, we're talking about a color of white. I can't possibly understand how a software product can produce a color value to pick, based on what is a large range of possible colors and thus color numbers (device values). When you ask for R45/G78/B192 in sRGB (or any RGB working space), it round trips so to speak back to some specific Lab value. Not a big pile of possible colors and thus possible Lab values. For this reason alone, I can't fathom how the request is possible and I don't see why it would be at all useful either considering we're talking about the color of white. White in these products is based upon a max of RGB Values based on the color space. Lstar 100 is white. How to associate this with a range of possible other colors of white and not necessarily based on the color space currently being edited. 

Now go back to what Anthony wrote above, 2nd part which is again, absolutely correct IMHO and very pertinent to understanding how the request sounds good on paper until you read a few actual papers on color. ;-)

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Andrew Rodney

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Now go back to what Anthony wrote above, 2nd part which is again, absolutely correct IMHO 
Well, we disagree on how to spell color <G>
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Anthony Blackett

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Colour - my little protest against the Americanisation of Australian english :)
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Andrew Rodney

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Gray or grey? ;-)
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Anthony Blackett

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Grey of course!
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Andrew Rodney

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Color, is a perceptual property of in this discussion, humans. So if you can't see it it's not a color. Color is not a particular wavelength of light. It is a cognitive perception, the excitation of photoreceptors followed by retinal processing and ending in the our visual cortex, within our brains. As such, colors are defined based on perceptual experiments.


Got any good books on color science? I do:


Fairchild's "Color Appearance Models". Page 1!

Like beauty, color is in the eye of the beholder. For as long as human scientific inquiry has been recorded, the nature of color perception has been a topic of great interest. Despite tremendous evolution of technology,fundamental issues of color perception remain unanswered. Many scientific attempts to explain color rely purely on the physical nature of light and objects. However, without the human observer, there is no color.

Further on the same page:

It is common to say that certain wavelengths of light, or certain objects are a give color. This is an attempt to relegate color to the purely physical domain. It is more correct to state those stimuli are perceived to be a certain color when viewed under specific conditions.

Page 1 paragraph 2 of Digital Color Management by Giorgianni and Madden:

But color itself is a perception and perceptions only exist in the mind.

Page 11 of The GATF Practical guide to Color Management:

Although extensive research has been conducted, we still not completely understand what happens in the brain when we "see" color. The visual sensation known as color occurs when light excites photoreceptors in the eye called cone cells.

Page 75 of Understanding Color Management by Sharma:

Color is an impression that we form in our brains.
See ya.
(Edited)
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Steve Lehman

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Thank you Andrew.  Perception of color in this argument seems to come from conceptual art maybe.   Abstract happened in the 70's, not so much these days.   


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Steve Lehman

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I know what a color wheel is.   As for a PhD, I also have a PhD.  Anthony did you come here to boast your education or are you only "against Americanisation of Australian English" as you said?   English is English. Americans don't care how an Australian speaks or writes.   Get over yourself.  So far you have only respelled words such as "colors" and corrected American speech, and you argued color issues, which is totally silly, elementary.  I am not interested.   I don't need to be corrected.   My opinion stopped at the last period in my prior comment.   
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eartho

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Dude, do you ever stop lying? If you had a PhD, i'm sure that you would be loudly proclaiming so in your bio, but that "fact" is nowhere to be found. Please stop wasting people's time here with your BS.
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Steve Lehman

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Eartho, and you are a troll with no contributions to technology and no education.  
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Mark Gilvey

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Well, I thank you guys for your responses (up until the intercontinental slingshots and spitballs came out). I guess I was thinking that the color picker could give a temperature for every area you sample but it doesn't sound like that's possible. Very well, back to my beer (we can all agree to that I think.) Cheers.
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Steve Lehman

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Mark!   

Thank you for your brilliant suggestions.  Great contribution.  We enjoyed your genius.   

BTW, there are temp-colors in the Elements Editor under Filters>Adjustments>Photo-Filter and checkmark the radio button marked, "Filters" and next to that will be a down-menu of warm, cool, hot colors, aside from the color wheel. 

Also, Adobe Light Room has half-steps per each course of light or color.  You might take a trip through that program, and if you don't have it, get a trial or demo.   

On the other hand, if you've been around colors and photos for the 19 years that I have, you might already know which ones are which, and their intensity, in the Adobe Elements color wheel.  

Thanks for being here, 
Steve Lehman, mcse