Lightroom CC: Circular banding in shadows with lens correction

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  • Updated 5 months ago
  • (Edited)
The lens corrections tools adds some kind of circular banding in the shadows.Here are two pictures to illustrate the issue:Without lens corrections:With lens corrrection:Those pictures are, of course, for illustration of the issue but IT IS visible in real world images.
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Antoine Hlmn

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Posted 5 months ago

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Christian Fürst

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could it be that you chose  a fish-eye lens correction which wold explain why? anyhow, it looks rather odd

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Antoine Hlmn

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Nope, it's the right lens.
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Johan Elzenga, Champion

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This looks like moire. It could occur because the image is so noisy. When you apply the profile, you slightly distort the image and that means the noisy pixels are remapped, resulting in moire patterns.
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Antoine Hlmn

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I was thinking the same, but I don't think it is: the pattern is the same regardless what screen and zoom level I'm using, so it does not appear to be a screen aliasing issue.

Also, I've done the same lens correction in DXO and nothing appears...
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Bruce Houstoun

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What camera/lens combo is this lens correction for?
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Antoine Hlmn

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In this case, it’s on a DxO one, but it’s on all combos.

After more investigation, it looks to be related to the rendering of the picture.

Here is example of the rendering engine giving up on the lowest part of the picture.
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Antoine Hlmn

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Well... “Internal Server Error“
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Steve Sprengel, Champion

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It's moiré between the original sensor pixels and the remapped positions not between the image pixels and the display pixels.  The respondent asked about the camera/lens combo to see if it is a known profile with bad math or a very new one that isn't quite right, yet. 
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Antoine Hlmn

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Strange indeed, there is no such behavior with the same image corrected by PhotoLab...

(Still can’t upload an image)
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Steve Sprengel, Champion

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If you want to share a screenshot you can use the camera icon, and if you have a 3-4K monitor, crop and resize it down to something small enough to be accepted.  If you want to share an original raw then upload it to somewhere like dropbox or googledrive or onedrive and post a public share link to it, here.

DxO specializes in correcting lens issues so may be trying harder, and/or may do their noise-reduction at a different point of the image processing pipeline relative to the lens-correction warping of the image and thus avoid the issue.  Or their software could be doing things with less bits and not be seeing the bottom 1 or 2 bits of the 14-bit camera sensor data and avoid the noise issues that way.  Sounds like you should do your lens corrections with DxO and your other things in LR to the extent it does better than DxO's PL2 which is quite good at some things but lacking in others compared to LR.  Speed especially of exports and lack up GPU support for this, not being able to freehand rotation, lack of constrain-to-image on the cropbox, less full-featured Auto toning, Horizon vs Adobe's auto-perspective transforms are some of the things where DxO PL2 falls short of Adobe.  The attention to lens corrections, being able to do film-specific looks, ability to use ICC profiles and DCP profiles are plusses.
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Antoine Hlmn

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I was using the camera icon with the same types of screenshots as before... I'll try again later. :)

In the tests I was doing, I only used the lens corrections of DxO PL, keeping all other parameters the same ;)
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Antoine Hlmn

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... still: Internal Server Error; there must be somthing wrong at Get Satisfaction :/
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Steve Sprengel, Champion

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And it sounds like you'll need to continue to use DxO for lens corrections and LR for everything else. 
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Steve Sprengel, Champion

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test inclusion of a screenshot:
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DP HOME

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1) this is expected, typically lens correction (like shading) info written by manufacturers is very crude in the first place - they supply info for 3-4-5 regions for EV correction instead of 30-40-50 to make it very smooth and Adobe probably does not interpolate nicely

AND also somewhat related (not about shading but about geometry)

2) geometry (barrel/pincussion/moustache/etc and LaCA /lateral/ - which is actually a geometry correction for 3 separate color planes) optics correction always bands the noise - see comments from Eric Chan back in 2011 - https://forums.adobe.com/thread/798576
(Edited)
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Most of the moire pattern you are seeing is due to the display resizing interpolation used for <1:1 Zoom views (i.e. Fit), which appears to be "nearest neighbor." The LR Classic Develop module also uses nearest neighbor, but the Library module uses the more accurate bicubic interpolation when creating preview files. It appears LR CC 2.1.1 uses nearest neighbor interpolation for all of it's previews, so the only way to see the "actual" image rendering is to use 'Save To' JPEG.

Here's what a similar "noisy" image file looks like inside LR Classic 8.1 Develop and Library modules with Lens Profile applied. The Library preview shows very little moire' and an image file with proper noise reduction applied will exhibit even less moire' pattern.

Canon 5D MKII CR2 file, ISO 3200, 1 sec., with lens cap on, +5.0 LR Exposure setting and no Noise Reduction applied.

(Edited)
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Antoine Hlmn

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Very good point! That's why it shows up in several cases and not in other.

The LR Classic Develop module also uses nearest neighbor, but the Library module uses the more accurate bicubic interpolation when creating preview files.

Isn't the other way around ? I would expect the Library module to use a less computer intensive method than the devlop module. No?

By the way, I frequently recreated 1:1 previews to speed up the display and processing. I have no idea what interpollation method is used not if it's even jpeg, but it seems to accelerate the devlop module (which makes sense...)


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Todd Shaner, Champion

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"Isn't the other way around ? I would expect the Library module to use a less computer intensive method than the devlop module. No?"

The Develop module uses the simpler and faster nearest neighbor interpolation to provide real-time display update of settings changes. The slower bicubic interpolation would most likely cause control lag when making settings adjustments in the Develop module on most systems.

"By the way, I frequently recreated 1:1 previews to speed up the display and processing.

The Library module creates JPEG preview files when importing images, which must be updated after applying adjustments to images in the Develop module. The JPEG preview file contains an image pyramid with 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, 1:4, 1: 8, 1:16 bit maps created using bicubic interpolation. The 'Fit' and 'Fill' Zoom view settings use a 2nd interpolation to do just that (fit or fill to window area).

"I have no idea what interpollation method is used not if it's even jpeg, but it seems to accelerate the devlop module (which makes sense...)""

The Library JPEG previews are only used in the Library module, but the Develop module does use some preview caching. When reviewing 3 or 4 image files LR will save the preview for those files. As long as you stay within those 3 or 4 files the screen preview update should be very quick. That may be what you're seeing, but it is independent of the Library module preview.

The most accurate rendering in LR is the Develop module 1:1 Zoom view (no interpolation). It uses LR's native working color space (ProPhoto RGB Gamma 1.0). For all other Zoom view settings (1:2, 1:3, 1:4, 1: 8, 1:16, Fit, Fill) the Library module provides the most accurate rendering because it uses bicubic interpolation, but a smaller Adobe RGB color space. In general this is not an issue since most image files have very little gamut outside Adobe RGB and the same for displays and monitors.

For the vast majority of "normal" images shot at low ISO the difference is small, but not necessarily the case for noisy high ISO images. The LR CC 2.1.1 banding issue is disturbing because there's no provision for more accurate bicubic interpolation Fit & Fill previews as provided in LR Classic's Library module.

Sorry for the long post, but as you can see it gets complicated!

LR CC Solution/Workaround
Adjust Noise Reduction and Sharpening settings at 1:1 Zoom view to remove visible noise in the image. This will greatly improve the "accuracy" of the LR CC 2.1.1 Fit & Fill screen previews.
(Edited)
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Antoine Hlmn

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Awesome! This all makes sense! Thanks