Can't put Photoshop Elements Organizer 2018 tags in alphabetical order

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I just added two new keyword tags to my existing tags in the Places category of the PSE 2018 Organizer.  I am unable to get PSE to put these tags in their proper alphabetical order.  I have tried both methods, (1) setting keyword preferences to "alphabetical sorting" and (2) setting keyword preferences to "manual sorting." In "alphabetical" mode tags are not reordered, remaining in their original, incorrect order.  In "manual" sorting mode dragging the tag never produces a "line" at the location where I want to drop it.  The only thing that might be a bit unusual is that I have tags "nested" within other tags, creating a hierarchy of tags based on geographical location.  For example I have a tag for United States with tags for many different states under / inside it. Within many of the states there are additional lower level location tags for counties, cities, or other geographical locations.
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Bill Junk

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Posted 3 months ago

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Jack Klaber

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Are your other keyword tags (people, etc.) in alphabetical order?
Take notice that since PSE 12 Places category is different in behavior. As soon as you "Add Places" to an image, the hierarchy is hard coded by country, county, city and address.
You cannot edit the tag in the way you can edit the other categories.
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Bill Junk

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All tags were in alpha order before I added the two new ones to Places.  I haven't tried adding new ones to other groups / categories.  It makes no sense for places to behave differently, especially when there are options to either manually sort them or have them automatically sorted alphabetically, neither of which behave as the options suggest.  Maybe I just don't understand your comment.  I was hoping that the tags were stored somewhere in an XML file that I could edit, but I have not been able to find it.  I now suspect that it's been stuffed somewhere in the database.
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Jack Klaber

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I agree with you that it makes no sense. Many others think so too, but PSE12 and later versions want to do a good thing better..... And as the saying goes, the enemy of good is better. 
All other categories are entirely manual. You add them manually or with the People category when you add a new name it will be displayed alphabetically. Adding places you have to place the image on a map and then PSE will use the GPS location to add automatically Country, county, city, etc. even the street number gets a tag. 
At least that how it works in PSE13, the version I use. I don't know if PSE2018 (PSE16 actually) behaves, but it stands to reason that it will do things in a similar way. 
If you upgraded from an earlier version to PSE2018 it will keep your Places tags as you organized them. But as soon as you add new Places, the program will use its own hierarchy. If you have only tags for counties and not for countries, PSE will add the tag "United States of America" and put it on top of the hierarchy in Places, albeit in an alphabetically order (in regard to other countries). For example, I have the countries I visited in my Places category since PSE 6, amongst them a tag-category called "USA". Now I have a tag-category "USA" with many cities under this category and a new category called "United States of America" with counties, cities, street names and house numbers under this one. 
There is no way to edit these new tags manually. The moment I choose the edit, I am directed to the map where I can move the place marker to a new location. 
The edit option of the People or other main categories will allow you to rename the tags, something the Places category is missing.

This oddity is well known and you can search on the Adobe Elements site for more information. One post is well formulated: https://forums.adobe.com/message/6033935#6033935 and another is probably exactly your problem:
https://forums.adobe.com/message/9628356#9628356
(Edited)
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Bill Junk

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Jack, I appreciate your more detail explanation of how your system is working.  I must say, HOWEVER, I have not seen any behavior from the Organizer quite like what you describe.  I've been using PSE since almost its initial release and I've been doing updates all along to preserve my structural view of how I want things organized and tagged.  I do all my work in the "Media" mode as opposed to the "Places" or "People" mode.  I have not used the Places map feature very much.  Until recently the only photos that had GPS location information were the ones taken with my cell phone.  I now have a Nikon D850 with a GPS unit attached, but when working in the "Media" mode I have not observed any new tags added unless I explicitly added them myself.  I haven't added any new countries to my Places tags in a number of years.  At some point in the past I was able to drag and drop country names into any order I wanted in the tags list.  Now, that seems to be gone.  In the last few weeks I did add Greenland and Iceland.  PSE put those as the first two countries in my list of Places tags.  I can drag and drop either of these to change their order relative to each other, but I can't move either one beyond the first or second place in the countries tag list.  Strangely enough I can drag and drop Iceland into the list of places under Canada -> British Columbia (or any other bottom level list of places I've created.)  It's almost like the implementers of the feature didn't stop to think about how people would use new capabilities or they did a poor job of testing for side effects on existing features.
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Jack Klaber

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I must say, HOWEVER, I have not seen any behavior from the Organizer quite like what you describe.  I've been using PSE since almost its initial release and I've been doing updates all along to preserve my structural view of how I want things organized and tagged. 
If you have been using PSE a long time then you should have noticed the difference of Places tags after PSE12. I've upgraded from PSE9 to PSE13 and noticed it immediately. As soon as I tried to add new places manually I was thrown back to the map to put the tag visually on the map. The Places hierarchy of PSE9 was kept in order but any new tag would be inserted according to the GPS parameters it got from the map such as country, county, etc.

The workaround is creating a new base category called f.i. "NewPlaces". It will be handled by PSE as a regular tag, meaning you can create your own hierarchy the way you want it to be without any connection to the map.
Hope this helps.
(Edited)
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Bill Junk

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Jack,

Since I've never found using the map feature of much personal benefit, I guess the changes just sailed by me without me noticing. It was only recently that I added new countries and notice that something didn't work the way I thought it should.  I'm sure there are many user who really like the map feature.  However, it's hard for me to think why sorting of the place tags should be handled differently from sorting of any other tags.  It may just be a development oversight or a side effect from how some developer coded a section of the program.  That being said, I still consider it a DEFECT.  Thanks for suggesting a workaround.  Well designed and implemented programs shouldn't need workarounds.
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Bill Junk

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I did a little more research on the issue I've been having with tag sorting.  I think the situation I'm in is a "legacy" problem.  By that I mean I've been using PSE since nearly the first release and over that time I've built a very extensive set of KEYWORD tags that have been preserved during the product update process.  Included in those tags are various kinds of descriptor as well as geographical locations.  My primary set of geographical locations are (probably) a sub-category located within the KEYWORDS category.  They are not found in the PLACES TAGS category (another first level subdivision of KEYWORDS).  I'm guessing that the PLACES TAGS category was introduced in one of the updates to PSE, but since I already had geographical tags taken care of, I just didn't notice the additional feature or didn't want to be bothered by adapting to a new way of associating geographical information with an image.  What I do find in the PLACES TAGS category are geographical tags that likely were auto generated from cell phone images that contained GPS location information.  While Adobe probably considered the additional capability a beneficial one, they did not consider the consequence for those accomplishing the geographical tagging in another way.  What's interesting is that the definition information for the Places category I have within KEYWORDS can't be edited.  In addition PSE won't let me drag and drop a geographic location keyword tag from Places (in KEYWORDS -> PLACES) to PLACES TAGS. Oh well.
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Jack Klaber

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Bill,
No need to invent the wheel again.....
This issue has been discussed widely in the thread with this link which you would have seen if you read the links in my previous post of March 22, here above.
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Bill Junk

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There's so much stuff that gets posted there is know way that every one can keep up to date with all of it.  I appreciate your willingness to point out that this is a known issue.  I had not had time to check out the posting.  While it is a known issue it does not change the fact that Adobe didn't design or implement the new feature in a way that avoided impact to existing capabilities.  I had a 40 year career in the software industry and know that things like this can be avoided by having a good understanding of usage scenarios and thorough regression testing of systems.
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Jack Klaber

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I've had also some professional background in software and customer support. Adobe seems to have made a stringent division between "Family S/W" and its current suite of CC S/W which is sold as a monthly subscription (with probable support - I don't subscribe, so I don't know). Photoshop Elements is sold without direct Adobe support but seems to be monitoring the support forums.....
Until today this Places issue has not yet been addressed by Adobe and because its mapping feature is in place since PSE12, I don't foresee any change in the coming future....