Elements: Camera Raw 11 Has Wrong Raw File Type for Coolpix P1000

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Adobe Camera Raw 11.2.1 and 11.1.0.112 incorrectly identifies the Nikon raw file type of the Coolpix P1000 as NEF when it is actually NRW. Consequently, while ACR does open the NRW file, it does not capture such camera picture control settings as saturation and contrast.
 I am using ACR in Photoshop Elements 2019 (ver. 17.0 x64).
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Anthony Way

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Posted 1 month ago

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Steve Lehman

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You have two different posts now.  Did you try the DNG convert (link below).   It's a generic converter that converts most RAW files.   It can convert CRW or CR2 for Canon and Nikon NEF and should convert NRW.   Link: https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/adobe-dng-converter.html  I thought they would have included all formats in 2019.   

Steve Lehman, mcse



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Anthony Way

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DNG convert does convert the NRW files to DNG but still does not capture the in-camera picture control settings such as saturation and contrast.
The real issue is that Adobe ACR claims to support the P1000 but mistakens the file type as NEF files instead of NRW.

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Steve Lehman

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Can you use Photoshop to apply camera control such as saturation and contract?   I can see why RAW does not apply your changes, because when received in Photoshop, it is "RAW".  Nothing should be applied yet.   

Pro's (like me) never use the camera settings to enhance a photo when Photoshop can to do the task well.  As a pro photographer, I never use the changes in the camera because most of the time, those are slight if at all.  I use a Nikon 5000 digital, Nikon N80 film cam, Canon T2i digital, and a Canon all manual AE1 film cam (1971) which has an electronic light meter.   I never use these to enhance a photo.   As a certified technician I know the digital formats, and everything works for me in Photoshop.  

Steve Lehman, mcse



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Steve Lehman

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Also, if your camera has a removable digital memory stick, and if you have a reader, then read your photos on computer and get them into a folder so you can use them in Photoshop.  Otherwise, your Photoshop is going to waste.   So why convert RAW when you can transfer photos?   If you don't have a good chip reader, I know where you can get a good one.  Try Delkin Devices like the pro's do.   They have a multiple chip reader that works on any computer, Mac or PC.   



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Anthony Way

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I appreciate your expertise, but my professional bird photographer adviser recommends applying modest in-camera increases in saturation and contrast.
And, just to be clear, I am importing the photo files to my computer and yes, ACR 11 will apply saturation and contrast settings to these NRW files.
Style aside, the base issue is that ACR 11 is not interpreting the NRW settings which I know are there since Nikon's ViewNX-i applies them and they are applied when the camera's format is set to JPG.
The P1000 came on the market last fall and Adobe updated ACR shortly after with 11.1 and then this spring with 11.2 but did so mistakenly assuming that its raw files were NEF. Nikon uses the NRW for its high end Coolpix series such as the P1000.
Adobe needs to update its ACR 11 to support the Coolpix P1000 raw NRW files.
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JEA

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I just downloaded some sample Nikon P1000 .NRW files from here and pse 2019 with camera raw 11.1 says the file is an NRW.
https://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-p1000/nikon-p1000GALLERY.HTM




Adobe changed the way one gets to the Camera Matching Profiles from the camera raw 10 versions.
In the Basic Panel click the 4 little squares to the right of Profile.




Then you should see Camera Matching and click the little down-turned arrow to see them.





Adobe ACR does not apply the in camera settings like saturation, contrast, etc since those settings are proprietary. Of course Nikon software does and those settings are baked into jpegs, but not the raw files in a way adobe acr can read them.


(Edited)
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Anthony Way

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Yes, ACR 11.1 does open NRW files and yes ACR 11.1 does have camera settings that somewhat match Nikon's but the fundamental issue is that Adobe ACR 11.1 has erred by identifying Nikon's Coolpix P1000 raw file type as NEF while it is actually NRW (https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/kb/camera-raw-plug-supported-cameras.html#Nikon).
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Steve Lehman

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Anthony, you won't like this reply. 

Thing is, NRW is not a real popular format.  It is in a point 'n shoot camera which is not a pro selected camera. 

Secondly, Nikon is the problem since they didn't furnish the converter for it.  They should be furnishing us a disc with the right software to convert their photo formats. 

And third, I never save RAW as a JPG  I convert them into TIFF to retain all of its properties.  That way I can do as I want with them in another program called Photoshop. 

Nikon does not need to furnish software that will enhance the photos.  Just the converter.  To make up for it instead: they make the camera bulky to use by incorporating the enhancements right in the camera and NO converter for another program. 

All that does is, confuses the user into thinking they don't need anything else but that.  And that's the REAL problem.  Get Nikon to make a converter and to forget the bells and whistles of enhancing the photos with software in the camera.  If they left that out, your camera would have lots of freed up memory for more photos. 

But at file compression such as 12 to 16 bits formatted photos as their photo files, Nikon wants to use these formats to compress the photos in the first place which is mucking up your photos and this file compression is why you cannot get the same settings you had in the camera to come to your software program. 

AND, the two programs (camera and Photoshop) that make your enhancements are not compatible.  THAT is the real problem.  As a programmer I see the big picture of compression ratios being the problem and the incompatible software programs.  You are NOT thinking like a tech, you are thinking like a camera user.  Try to understand your camera better.  THAT is how it was made with digital compressed files to save its memory so you can muck up all your photos and not print them in a real program on your computer.  You will need another computer program to print them don't forget.  AND you need to convert the files into 8 bit to print them.  As a tech and an engineer, I know how this works.  But you are still not understanding this.  Excuse me if I sound abrupt but we are being a tad bit too redundant.  

As I see it, this is actually a camera problem.  All of our brands of cameras should be giving us discs for RAW conversions in ANY software we choose.  
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Steve Lehman

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One more thing:  As you enhance your photos within the camera, your photo files are bigger and bulky as a result.  My advice still stands.  Convert RAW to TIFF - not JPG which compresses it again and degrades the file more.  Then do your enhancements in Photoshop, then print there.   Your photos convert to 8 bit for printing on their way to the printer as you select your printer.  A popup will ask if you want to change to 8 bit for printing.  Say "yes".  No printer will print a compressed photo.  The photo needs to be 8 bit and does not degrade it or change it. 

Printers will ignore the compress format in JPG only for other files but not photos from a camera in 12 to 16 bit compression which is too deeply compressed.  JPG compresses to 80%.  Your camera compresses to 95 to 98%.  That's far too much for any printer to unwind a file, processes it, as it deciphers it.   

A print driver needs to know the file before it will print.  Some printers use the computer for its memory and processing, other printers use printer memory in the printer.  Color printers use computer memory for its processing, but monotone printers have their own memory and even those are skimpy.  WE add memory to our printers. 

At Microsoft we use one-terabyte of memory for each printer on the floor, to make sure that 300 employees can use it without causing a bottleneck of data traffic and even then I was took trips to the printers 3 times per day to clear their memory, and then to get the network data traffic to come through.   

Steve Lehman, mcse
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Steve Lehman

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NEF is easier to save and reformat.  You are using a RAW format NRW, a very large size resolution in 12 bit files which takes more memory in your camera.  In the end you will need to convert them to TIFF (TIF) or at least 8 bit files before printing because no printer will print anything larger than an 8 bit files.  Photoshop has a converter for this built in and it appears when you are on your way to the printer, as it pops up and converts to 8 bit. 

I know you will hate to hear this, but another model camera would have made NEF as a more flexible file.  Aside from not ready to letting go of your camera settings, I think Photoshop is your only rescue for the settings you want, that is, if you can accept it.  

This is all I have.  Good luck with that.  



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JEA

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Hi Anthony,

That appears to be a misprint in the adobe documentation as you can clearly see when opening your P1000 .NFW files in acr they still show the extension as .NRW and not .NEF.

Hopefully someone from adobe will read this post and correct the error.


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Anthony Way

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JEA: If it were just a misprint then when I import a photo set in the camera to monochrome, I should not see a color photo in PSE. I suspect that NEF and NRW are close enough for PSE/ACR to open the file but not close enough to read the camera color settings.
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No, your monochrome setting in your camera is just a tag which is only used by the conversion engine integrated in your camera to produce a jpeg and the image for the display. That's true for all raw files except for very rare pro cameras which don't have a color filter array. For any raw converter, that tag is just an indication of your rendering intent. The raw data of your image always have the color intormation, whether you want to use it or not, even if the raw format is not a photo format.
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Anthony Way

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Thank you for your input. However, if the camera has the ability to set colors (e.g. monochrome or high saturation) in the file but I never have the ability to see the effect of these in-camera settings in PSE then what is the point of having a raw file (aside from more editing capability)? For example, I am shooting flowers and, in the camera, am trying different levels of saturation to see what looks best but in PSE/ACR I only see one level of saturation (and I don't know what that is).
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Michel BRETECHER, Champion

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The point of having raw files is that you are not limited to the options offered by the manufacturer's own raw converter. You are free to change the saturation and other settings to your liking. The ACR module does not use the proprietary adjustments options offered by your camera manufacturer, but it will offer 'profiles' to mimic the various visual effects from your camera. That's only a starting point for your creativity.

Since you are using Elements, it's good to know that the ACR module offers features which are not available with the normal pixel editor. You can apply the same editing settings to batches of files for instance. This has nothing to do with raw conversion, but believe me, contrary to popular belief, raw adjustment of big batches of files is much faster than with the regular editor.
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Anthony Way

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I understand what you are saying, but what is the point of the camera offering settings for raw files that can't be seen or used outside of the camera? The whole point of trying out different settings in the field is to be able to continue using those settings in future shots. I understand that the in-camera settings are imbedded into the jpg files the camera can make but then I lose the raw file editing capability.
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Michel BRETECHER, Champion

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If you use the raw converter bundled with your camera by the manufacturer instead of third party converters like Adobe's solutions (ACR, LR...) you have the same options as those offered in camera for your jpegs. If you use Adobe ACR or LR, some popular camera profiles offer options to get similar visual results as those you have for in-camera jpegs. Not exactly the same proprietary algorithms, but a very similar effect.
There are reasons why many users (the majority?) prefer to use ACR even is it does not achieve exactly the same effects. Just like the default 'auto' settings in ACR, those options to simulate the camera settings are just starting points from which you have full raw editing capabilities.
You can even create and save your own custom effect or style for a typical scene. If you need to apply it later to other files, the trick in PSE is to open the saved reference file in ACR and to click 'Done' without any change. Once you have opened the files to which you want to apply the same effect, you simply choose 'last edit'. That easily compensates the lack of 'presets' effects like in Lightroom.
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Steve Lehman

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Anthony,  

I told you before, the reason that y our camera settings does not carry over to Photoshop is because your camera photo is com-pressed to 12 bit, then goes to Photoshop which uncompressed it and begins a new array of settings in Photoshop.   Your camera loses its settings because your Nikon brand has decided to save your photos in your camera in 12 bit files to save space on its memory card.  Again, you lose those settings because it was compressed.  Ya know, if you don't like Photoshop for this, then say so.  Otherwise, there is no point to this argument that the RAW changes.  Of course it changes.  It's RAW.  At first it is RAW at a very compressed file of 12 bit,  then you saved it to JPG which compressed it again 80%, then you transfer it to Photoshop and all of those settings is lost and you end up with a very small photo that was compressed twice.  Stop compressing it in JPG.  And use the DNG convert for RAW and then save it to TIFF in Photoshop like we pros do.  It's a generic convert that works for this.  (that's it for me, he will argue this also)


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JEA

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Steve,

The reason is those in camera settings are proprietary as with any camera manufacture and only their software can read those settings. Adobe does not have access to the manufactures source code that would enable acr to to read those settings.

Adobe does do a good job of mimicking some of the in camera presets with camera profiles.

It doesn't have anything to do with the bit depth, compression or whether the file is NFW or NEF.

Read Michel BRETECHER's  responses.
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Steve Lehman

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Corrected. I will admit I am rusty at ACR.  In networking compression has a lot with losing settings in software.