Lightroom/Camera Raw: Built in Profile Maker

  • 3
  • Idea
  • Updated 7 years ago
  • (Edited)
Would be great to have a Colorchecker Passport camera profile reader or something similar built in to ACR/Lightroom.
This would make creating camera profiles so much quicker/easier.
Open DNG image with Macbeth/Colourchecker , select "Patch reader tool" Bingo!
Photo of andrew hills

andrew hills

  • 4 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes

Posted 7 years ago

  • 3
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 384 Reply Likes
I couldn't agree more - and I submitted an official 'Idea' which proves it: http://feedback.photoshop.com/photosh...

In the mean time:

AdvancedColorEditor is my best whack so far at plugin assisted profile editor integration.
Photo of Andrew Rodney

Andrew Rodney

  • 591 Posts
  • 102 Reply Likes
You can do that today in LR by simply downloading the FREE X-Rite Passport software that supports the Macbeth 24 patch target you’d need anyway. No reason to tie up Adobe engineering resources, its been done by another company. Thanks X-Rite!

http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_over...
Photo of andrew hills

andrew hills

  • 4 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Andrew
I am using the x-rite software and the CCP
I can see you want to protect your product! why not make it a plugin and make my life easy.
If the lighting changes i need a new profile i do not want to keep coming out of ACR to do that.
Andrew
Photo of Andrew Rodney

Andrew Rodney

  • 591 Posts
  • 102 Reply Likes
Yes, since I purchased X-Rite, its now my product. Seriously...

The Passport software IS a plug-in for LR.

Do you even know its possible to build a plug-in to a plug-in (for ACR)? I’ve never seen one.
Photo of andrew hills

andrew hills

  • 4 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Andrew
Having watched the videos on the link you provided i see that the Lightroom method is indeed a quick and easy way to do just what i want.Thank you.
I had not realised that a profile created in LR could also be accessed in ACR(my preferred Raw converter when doing colour critical work)
It would still be handy to have a smoother operation in ACR.
I miss understood your sign off "Thanks X-Rite!" i thought you were from x-rite.
Andrew
Photo of Rory Hill

Rory Hill

  • 241 Posts
  • 35 Reply Likes
"I had not realised that a profile created in LR could also be accessed in ACR(my preferred Raw converter when doing colour critical work)"

Andrew - are you aware that LR and ACR share the same develop code base? You should not see a difference between the two, unless you are doing further editing in CS (Photoshop).
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 379 Reply Likes
Profiles are created in the ACR app-data directory. One could also say the profiles are created for ACR, and Lightroom "borrows" them... - they not only share the same code base, but a lot of the same "data" base as well...
Photo of andrew hills

andrew hills

  • 4 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Rory

"I had not realised that a profile created in LR could also be accessed in ACR(my preferred Raw converter when doing colour critical work)"

This is to do with the fact that i have a colour sampler tool and i can read the numbers off the colour card as 0-255 and not in % as in Lightroom plus i prefer curves in ACR to Lightroom.
Photo of Andrew Rodney

Andrew Rodney

  • 591 Posts
  • 102 Reply Likes
I think you’ll find the profiles built in Passport are different (I dare say visually more appealing) than the one provided by the Adobe DNG profile editor. At least with my DNG profiles on a Canon 5DMII.

You DO need to quit and restart LR for the new profile to be accessible, but that’s a LR limitation (something we also saw in the old days with Photoshop and ICC profiles).

Also, the standalone Passport software can build dual illuminant DNG profiles, the plug-in can’t. But someone building custom scene illuminated DNG profiles, you’ll probably have not desire for a dual illuminant profile anyway.
Photo of Steve Sprengel

Steve Sprengel, Champion

  • 2656 Posts
  • 341 Reply Likes
Using the X-Rite plug-in, you still have to exit LR for the profiles to show up.

Rob, does your LR plug-in add profiles to LR's list without exiting and restarting LR?
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 384 Reply Likes
I wish... - visit
AdvancedColorEditor
and search for 'estart'.
Photo of Andrew Rodney

Andrew Rodney

  • 591 Posts
  • 102 Reply Likes
>Using the X-Rite plug-in, you still have to exit LR for the profiles to show up.

Yup, that’s an LR issue (if you built one using their DNG profile editor while LR was running, you’d have to quit too). As I said, we saw this same behavior years ago with Photoshop and ICC profiles. I wonder if LR can be coded so this wouldn’t be necessary...
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 384 Reply Likes
My experience: Amazing differences between different profiles for different photos.

My recommendation: Build different ones, try different ones.

I like X-rite profiles for some photos, and not others (ditto for all the other profiles).

I wish profile-based color adjustment, as well as similarly specific individual photo color adjustment were readily available in Lightroom, and couldn't get lost, even if not using DNG file format. That would be well worth the investment in development time, in my opinion.
Photo of Eric Chan

Eric Chan, Camera Raw Engineer

  • 617 Posts
  • 121 Reply Likes
Integration of the profiling tools directly into the heart of LR is probably not in the cards. Even though it's popular with many users, it's still more of a setup step, rather than a core workflow step. In the big picture, unfortunately, it's also not sufficiently common to justify building it in directly.

Coding LR to support reloading profiles without restarting LR has been requested, but has not yet been implemented. (ACR has implemented it, however.) Unfortunately I don't have a timetable for you.
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 384 Reply Likes
Hopefully Lr4 will include at least some enhancement to color control tools.

If not (or even if so), an API for reloading profiles, and renaming, hiding, deleting, and preferrably storage in catalog and xmp, would be enough for plugin authors to fill the niche, especially if DPE accepted command-line parameters.
Photo of TK

TK

  • 531 Posts
  • 111 Reply Likes
Eric, I agree with you. Profiling is a (typically relatively infrequent) setup step, not something you need at a daily basis.
The X-rite approach worked nicely for me and what's the big inconvenience in having to restart?

I'd rather see development time spend on better distraction removal technology. This, IMHO, would much better round off LR's functionality and be a much better productivity booster (for most). Anyone tired of creating and managing strings of bubbles with the spot removal tool?
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 384 Reply Likes
I don't think "better color control / better profile handling" and better distraction removal are mutually exclusive.

I mean, if DPE did not already exist, and if ACR did not already include the ability to reload profiles..., it would be different, but all the pieces of the color puzzle already exist, its just a matter of integration. Even the DPE site/doc talks about the myriad of different uses for creating profiles (even photo-specific profiles) - its not just about one-time calibrations... Granted, if people had better control of color without making profiles (and could make presets instead...), profiles would be more confined to the less frequent use cases.

One of the biggest problems with how things are now, besides the obvious of having to restart Lightroom, is that the coupling of profiles to the photos that use them, in Lightroom, is too loose. It should not be possible to delete (or rename) a profile that's being used by a photo, without a warning, and without detection. Thus one of the advantages of having profile management functions in Lightroom proper, is to tighten up the ship.

I understand that those of us creating / modifying profiles frequently are not in the majority, which is why I hope at least some primitive API's in the SDK (and command-line parameters for DPE) are provided, if not whole hog...