ACR/LR? Always sync White Balance to Temperature values, not As Shot

  • 3
  • Idea
  • Updated 5 years ago
  • (Edited)
The sync WB behaviour is - and has always been - counterintuitive. If no WB adjustment has been made to the main selected image then syncing appears not to work (I understand that it is successfully syncing 'as shot' but it feels broken, and a quick Google reveals I'm far from the only one who feels this). But just a minor adjustment to the main image sees all synced photos change - sometimes radically - to visually match it.

Why not make Temperature Values the default sync option in all instances - not just where an adjustment has been made - and offer a 'as shot' option in either the dialogue or the Preferences panel for the hypothetical user who would actually use the sync to as shot behaviour.
Photo of Michael Fink

Michael Fink

  • 12 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes

Posted 5 years ago

  • 3
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 372 Reply Likes
I couldn't agree more.

And hopefully there will be some trickle-across to SDK / plugins, which presently have a hard time dealing with white balance / temperature / tint, since values are not available until a while after mode switched to custom, or user (not plugin, since plugin *can't* change them unless custom mode has settled: thus the problem), has explicitly changed temperature and/or tint (and thus mode has become custom).

To be clear: user should be able to specify whether temperature or tint or wb/mode is to be sync'd, and plugins should be able to adjust temperature and tint, regardless of initial mode, and have access to temperature and tint, regardless of mode (and for all modes, e.g. even if mode is "As Shot", it would be good to be able to get the value for "Auto", and vice versa).

Rob
Photo of Michael Fink

Michael Fink

  • 12 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
The logic of syncing to the 'current setting' is pretty irrefutable.

So what I am effectively arguing is that the default 'current setting' for WB should be the Temp and Tint values, not 'As Shot'. This is effectively what Rob Cole achieves with the work-around he describes below.

Another way to think about this would be to treat the current Modes (Flash, Daylight, Tungsten, etc) simply as shortcuts for specific Temp & Tint values. Then any WB syncing needn't reference modes, it simply syncs absolute Temp & Tint values.

I'm genuinely interested in why Lightroom - which I generally find to be incredibly intuitive - feels so decidedly broken in this particular instance. So if you, or anyone else, can tell me why my proposal would not make for a more logical default behaviour I'm all ears.
Photo of Michael Fink

Michael Fink

  • 12 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Should ability to sync WB modes still be required I prefer Rob Cole's idea (see below) of incorporating Mode, Temp & Tint checkboxes into the existing sync modal window, to requiring a separate modal window specifically just for WB.
Photo of Lee Jay

Lee Jay

  • 990 Posts
  • 131 Reply Likes
"Should ability to sync WB modes still be required ...."

It most certainly is.

"I prefer Rob Cole's idea (see below) of incorporating Mode, Temp & Tint checkboxes into the existing sync modal window"

I suppose that would work, but I haven't thought it through, such as what would happen with "Previous" or "Auto Sync".
Photo of Michael Fink

Michael Fink

  • 12 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Lee Jay, what do WB modes offer beyond a shortcut for common temp & tint values? How conceptually do they differ from this (quite possibly over-simplified) description?
Photo of Lee Jay

Lee Jay

  • 990 Posts
  • 131 Reply Likes
Well, there are as-shot and auto, neither of which is a short cut to a common temp and tint combination.
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 372 Reply Likes
The work-around that I use:

Assure white balance is set to custom immediately upon import.

I do that via an intelligently computed import plugin develop preset, but you can also do it manually by editing a develop preset's .lrtemplate file and making sure WhiteBalance is "Custom", but Temperature and Tint have been stripped out, for example:

settings = {

-- whatever else you want here *except* Temperature & Tint.
WhiteBalance = "Custom",
},

Of course that preset needs to be applied upon import.
Photo of Michael Fink

Michael Fink

  • 12 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Clever. Is that something that can be done from within Lightroom, or are you editing a file using a text editor?
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 372 Reply Likes
text editor - give it a try!
Photo of Michael Fink

Michael Fink

  • 12 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
Gave it a go, but without success. Could you please hold my hand?

I went into the LR import dialogue, and with the settings of my current import default template left as they are, I clicked "Save Current Settings as a New Default..." and named it "Temp Sync Logic - Rob Cole"

I then opened Temp Sync Logic - Rob Cole.lrtemplate in TextEdit, and added:

settings = {

WhiteBalance = "Custom",
},


directly after the similarly formatted 'value' section.

Relaunching LR I applied the old and new import settings to two different lots of photos, but the sync behaviour in the develop module remained the same regardless of which settings the photo I used as the base photo for syncing had been imported with.

Any ideas what I've done wrong?
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 372 Reply Likes
|> "Any ideas what I've done wrong?"

Yes: see post further down, which includes better instructions.

Note: if, *all* photos being sync'd are set to custom white-balance already, then white-balance sync should sync temperature and tint values. The preset should simply set photos to custom white balance.
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 372 Reply Likes
Perhaps the simplest solution is to break white balance into 3 entities:

* mode
* temperature
* tint

Specify which you're referring to up front and no additional dialog box need be presented.
Photo of Michael Fink

Michael Fink

  • 12 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
A nice tidy solution.

It avoids the need for annoying popovers, and provides a sufficient hint for most users confused by the current (non-) behaviour to work out that it's a 'feature', not a bug.
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 372 Reply Likes
If you're creating a preset (by editing a Lr-created preset in a text editor) to *only* set white balance mode to custom, it should look like this:

s = {

id = "D652F65F-D5EA-4154-A713-61610246E887",
internalName = "White Balance - Custom",
title = "WB - Custom Only",
type = "Develop",
value = {
settings = {
WhiteBalance = "Custom",
},
uuid = "7202A1A3-653C-47C4-8CE8-66E5C612941F",
},
version = 0,
}

If you're creating a preset to set white balance mode to custom (without changing temperature and tint), and do other things too, it should like like this:

s = {

id = "E652F65F-D5EA-4154-A713-61610246E888",
internalName = "White Balance - Custom",
title = "WB - Custom Only",
type = "Develop",
value = {
settings = {
-- other things go here (except omit Temperature and Tint).
WhiteBalance = "Custom",
},
uuid = "8202A1A3-653C-47C4-8CE8-66E5C6129410",
},
version = 0,
}

In other words, you need to edit the part between the "settings = {" and the "}," that follows, and delete the lines containing Temperature and Tint settings.

Note: id & uuid should be computed by lightroom when creating the preset, and should NOT be the same as what you see here.

PS - Lightroom must be restarted for changes to take effect.

R
Photo of Michael Fink

Michael Fink

  • 12 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
A ha! My problem was that I was trying to edit an Import template, rather than a Develop template (they have the same file extension and look pretty similar).

Initially I attempted to create a new Develop preset, but for reasons that I've already forgotten I erroneously decided I was barking up the wrong tree.

All working now. Thanks so much for your help.

Now, if only it didn't display a little edited icon in the thumbnails LR would be operating just like I think it should by default...
Photo of Rob Cole

Rob Cole

  • 4831 Posts
  • 372 Reply Likes
|> "if only it didn't display a little edited icon in the thumbnails".

Agreed - that little icon is pretty much useless to me, and so is pretty-much ignored. Consider using a label and/or other metadata to distinguish edited from non-edited state.

Glad you got it working... -R.
Photo of Michael Fink

Michael Fink

  • 12 Posts
  • 0 Reply Likes
One strange quirk is that my Temp values are now always XXX1 (where they used to be XXX0). Not helping my OCD!