Adobe about to invent the "regression only" update.

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  • Updated 1 week ago
Hi,

I think that version 9.2 might be the incarnation (or preview) of the first "regression only" release of Lightroom. Nothing new and really useful, just regressions and new bugs. The ability to tweak the configurations having more than 2 displays will certainly please an incredible number of users as well as the capability to load PSB files. Otherwise, there's nothing in the new LR defaults management that I couldn't do before. But the camera specific ISO default setting must now be done by tweaking a configuration file manually. Thanks a lot, we were all waiting for these changes, holding our breath.

If the development team have enough spare time to spend on such oddities, they could use it to work on all the long lasting bugs waiting since many years for a fix. I really can't believe it.
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Patrick Philippot

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  • disgusted

Posted 2 weeks ago

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avpman

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Agreed, we are PAYING Adobe to be their beta testers. 
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Anthony Blackett

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I'm astounded that the Lr development team has only managed to fix 5 bugs in 2 months! That is about 3 weeks per bug. What are they doing? Five fixed and at least 3 new ones that I found in just one hour of installing the 9.2 update. I might add that these are new bugs that were not present in 9.1! I'm sure that many of the outstanding bugs would take a competent programmer anything from only a  few minutes to an hour or two to fix. There doesn't seem to be any sort of real effort or desire in Adobe to address many of these outstanding problems.

Under Known Issues on Lightroom Classic's Knowledge-base site there are four issues listed for the current (9.2) version. That's a bit of joke. The real number of issues are far too many to list on the page, so Abode prefers to pretend there is almost nothing wrong.

With 6380 problems currently in need of a solution, at this rate it will take Abode almost 1329 years to fix or eliminate them, provided that there are no new ones added to the list.

Whatever system Abode is using to prioritise the work being done by the Lr development team, it simply doesn't seem to be working. We are told that problems and ideas with high likes, or is that me toos, are likely to be given more consideration. Well, 3 of the 5 bugs fixed had 8 me toos each.

If we look at Ideas, then PSB file support was asked for 9 years ago and has 175 me toos, so it's about time it was added. However, top of the list from six years ago with 1181 me toos is marked as Not Planed. Ok, second on the me toos count with 404, also from 9 years ago, is Allow Catalog to be stored on a networked drive, but sadly, no action on that one. Too hard? It seems the development team can't even implement easy ones.

There was a very recent request to add a third option to file renaming to allow the original filename case to be preserved on export, including the extension. This could be done in the blink of an eye, costing Abode virtually nothing in development time, but I doubt it will ever be added. Why? I have no idea at all. Too easy, nobody else asked for it, can't be bothered...

There are many great ideas put forward by users of this forum, but it seems all too easy for Adobe to ignore them and by the very nature of the way this forum works, these ideas (and bug reports) are so easily forgotten about. If the number of users Following an idea, bug or request for help is small, then after the initial post, only a few Followers get notified about subsequent discussions. For the majority, these discussions on the original post are lost, helping Adobe to ignore the original post due to lack of interest by users. It seems very hard to get Abode to listen and even harder to get acknowledgement of a problem or idea. Users helping other users works well on the forum, but Adobe helping users could improve.

Enough. Next bug.

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Patrick Philippot

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> What are they doing?
I see 2 main reasons for such a disaster regarding code quality :

1. Offshore subcontracting. After posting a lot of reports about the bugs in the Adobe CC desktop app, I find myself talking with a few people based in India that obviously had difficulties understanding what I was talking about. After a while, they stop answering to my questions. Offshore programming is cutting costs but always implies longer delays.

2. LUA. This language is lacking the necessary features allowing to quickly spot and fix bugs. I never understood the decision to use LUA for a good part of Lightroom. It makes Test-Driven Development (TDD) almost impossible.

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avpman

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When Adobe first announced the CC plan I was skeptical they could release (relatively bug free) new features throughout the year. It just isn't possible in a GOOD development environment. In the past Adobe couldn't even put out a reasonably bug free release once a year. Now they're putting out, sometimes serious, bugged versions every few months. The interruption of the enjoyment of the product, and sometimes serious impact on people who use it to make a living, is just no longer acceptable. When will they wake up? P.S. I agree with your comment about the LUA programming language. LUA a free open source language first developed in 1994. You get what you pay for.
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Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

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referencing: "I'm astounded that the Lr development team has only managed to fix 5 bugs in 2 months!" 

The actual count is well over 300 fixed for Lightroom Classic since the December update. The knowledge base document only lists customer reported bugs with higher numbers of customers encountering the issue. The KB Doc list is kept short for readability.
(Edited)
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Patrick Philippot

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Ahem, a bug is a bug and has to be fixed if acknowledged whatever the number of reports or "me toos". Giving priority to the most urgent ones is OK but any reported and acknowledged bug should be fixed. In version 9.2, I still see among other problems that the infamous "metadata not saved" bug and the "mark/unmark favorites" are still well and alive although they are many years old, fully documented, reproducible and acknowledged.

Or are you telling us that there are so many bugs in LR that fixing 300 of them is just the most urgent work that had to be done ?
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Victoria Bampton - Lightroom Queen, Champion

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Of course bugs should be fixed, but can you imagine the complaints if there were no new features for a year because the team was busy fixing bugs? There's complaints even with the current balance. I'm not sure there's a good answer here.
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Patrick Philippot

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Victoria,

I know, hoping that all users will suddenly become reasonable and ask that their money be used to produce stable and clean code is utopian and not good for business. I could compare this with those photographers who are constantly upgrading their hardware to the latest model, hoping that their images will become better.

However, I'm talking about bugs that are 6, 7 or 8 years old. Sometimes they are present since the very first version of LR. This is not acceptable and I'd really like to read statements from Adobe about this. I have given above some possible explanations about why Adobe seem unable to track and fix these problems. I'm pretty sure that we are suffering the consequences of this extremely questionable and surprising design decision : using LUA for the implementation of a software like LR. This choice made impossible the use of modern development technologies for both initial development and maintenance.

So we are paying a subscription for a software that is progressively getting out of control. That's a fact. I guess that the senior developers at Adobe do know that a re-design is in order but this could swallow a good part of the huge profits generated by the subscription model. Subscribers are slowly becoming aware of this and credible alternative solutions are appearing. If Adobe continue to play the game this way, they may have a surprise one of these days.
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Gary Rowe

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Nice try, but no cigar.  For the amount of money being taken in by Adobe through the subscription model we should be getting what was mooted at its start; there should be constant development, AND constant bug fixing.

As a user, I judge based on what I receive not on the excuses ... and TBH I think LR development is WAY behind what I expect from a professional service; I don't know what level of their QA & Dev teams the problems are at, but the product is a continuous challenge to use, and I'd guess the technical debt is ever-growing.

For me, once someone else comes up with as good a printing workflow experience integrated into their image editing tool I'm gone. The only Adobe product I now use is LR, with Affinity, PTGui, Photomatix & several excellent plugins to compliment it. It won't be soon, but I'm hoping ...
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avpman

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300 bugs in a product since December is not something to boast about.
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Rikk Flohr, Official Rep

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That's 300 fixed. I have corrected my post to make it more clear. 
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avpman

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Well they had to be there in the first place to fix them. The rate that bugs are being introduced in LR is not acceptable. Why not wait and put out ONE stable version once or twice a year? Give us a fully functioning relatively bug free version which we can DEPEND on while Adobe concentrates on fixing existing bugs instead of introducing new ones.
(Edited)
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Anthony Blackett

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The actual count is well over 300 fixed for Lightroom Classic since the December update. The knowledge base document only lists customer reported bugs with higher numbers of customers encountering the issue. The KB Doc list is kept short for readability.
I can understand wanting to keep the list short for readability. However, if there were more than 300 bugs fixed, then at least the Fixed issues... page could say so. That would then convey the message that progress is being made towards addressing all these problems users are having.

Ahem, a bug is a bug and has to be fixed if acknowledged whatever the number of reports or "me toos".
Too right. Bugs reported by users should be identified and fixed quickly, not left for 6 months, 12 months, 2 years or even longer. If problems reported in this forum have been fixed or otherwise dealt with, then their status should reflect that. Instead, we find problems hanging around for years related to old versions of Lightroom, like Lr 4, that aren't reported as solved and possibly not even relevant to the current version.

Users on this forum actively participate in an effort to get bugs fixed and improve Lr Classic with good ideas because most, like myself, love using Lr. However, it is very frustrating to get the feeling of being ignored or not believed. Many of us are unpaid testers and got to great lengths to do as much as possible to help the development team identify problems. Our reward should be to see these problems fixed, not carried over from one release to the next.

For example, https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-classic-8-3-splash-screen-displays-multiple-times-with-not-responding

This still hasn't been fixed after 9 months. It was introduced in Lr Classic 8.3, causes a significant delay in Lr starting up and causes Lr to go off into Not Responding if the Lr window is clicked. The problem was Acknowledged, logged and being looked into. It has 6 me toos! Is this not enough? I find this problem intensely annoying and get disappointed at every release when I find it still not solved.

Finally, Rikk, you do a fantastic job trying to appease all our grizzles, giving us positive feedback and correcting us when we get things wrong.

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Johan Elzenga, Champion

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Any which way Adobe loses. If only five bugs were fixed, then people complain that only five bugs were fixed. If 300 bugs were fixed, then people complain there were 300 bugs to begin with. In other words, whatever Adobe does, people will complain.
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Patrick Philippot

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So what ? Should we stop complaining about bugs lasting since years ? Say thank you ?
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Gary Rowe

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Johan - no. It is us, the users, who are losing.
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Anthony Blackett

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I think it is quite reasonable for users to expect reported and confirmed bugs to be fixed in a reasonable time frame. Having known bugs lingering from one release to the next for years seems quite unreasonable to me. So, I think we do have grounds to complain.

I haven't seen anyone complain that there were 300 bugs to begin with. I'm very happy that 300 bugs have been fixed and not just the five that were listed. I would like to have known that though.

Did the count for reported Problems with the status Needs a Solution on this forum drop by 300 and the count for Solved increase by 300? I hope so. I'm looking forward to watching the Needs a Solution count drop and Solved bump up over the next two months.

If this forum is the place for users to report bugs, then it should also be the place for users to find what has been fixed and when. A version where fixed would be so helpful.

Prioritising bug fixing by the me toos count is completely inappropriate. One confirmed, reproducible bug report is sufficient to warrant fixing as soon as possible. As for Ideas, I think the me toos are not a very reliable indicator as to whether an idea is a good one or not. The me toos counts are relatively low for most ideas compared with the number of users on the forum. I suspect that most users, even when they like an idea, don't add their voice by clicking the Me Too button or add their comments in support or otherwise.